TWL-Chapter 15: "Because you can see."
Moderators: Cord Hurn, danlo, dlbpharmd
TWL-Chapter 15: "Because you can see."
Because you can see.
This very short chapter begins with Linden's thoughts after TC entered Andelain. Although Linden is content with her decision to remain behind with Sunder and Hollian, she feels bereft of Covenant's company. More than bereft - she feels almost abandoned. She bars up her senses and settles in to wait for Covenants return.
Suddenly, the group is captured and taken to Stonemight Woodhelven, where the residents are possessed by the Illearth Stone. Their intention is to slay (sacrifice?) the group in the morning. This does not happen, however, and a rider of the Clave, Santonin na-Mhoram-in, comes to escort them to Revelstone.
Santonin "compells" the three companions toward Revelstone. They have no will of their own, can not even eat unless Santonin compells them to it.
They reach Revelstone and Linden, Sunder,and Hollian are so thoroughly "compelled" that they cannot even appreciate the grandeur of Revelstone. In the past books, Revelstone was always a wonderous, strong home that Covenant was always in awe of. Now, Donaldson makes the companions entrance into Revelstone unremarkable - as their forced coersion insists.
They are brought to the former council chamber of Revelstone. It has been altered in that it looks like lava has flown down the walls and erased any former brilliance of the room. No longer the highly polished floor that seemed to have the sun within it. No longer the balconies to sit and listen. The heart of Revelstone has been forgotten. Had Linden not been compelled, I'm sure she would have wailed from the pain of the stone.
In the chamber, they come before another man in black robes and holding a crozier and a piece of the Illearth Stone. He had hopes of finding Covenant. Even in her stupor, Linden can see and feel the ill of the Illearth Stone. The man is a raver and faces Linden. He tells her that he must not harm her because she will do more damage unharmed - more than he could ever hope for! He turns to Sunder and HOllian and asks where Covenant is. Sunder refuses to talk, to his detriment, and Hollian lies and tell the raver that TC died in Andelian and he did not return. The raver knows this is a lie and asks why they want him to believe that the white gold still lives. Sunder replies: "I wish you to fear." (I love that line. What bravado and arrogance! Bravo, Sunder! )
They are taken to the hold where Linden, finally released from the raver, is left "helpless and soul-naked." She is empty and can do nothing to refill herself. Out of the darkeness of her personal madness, she hears a flat, alien voice say, "Ur-lord Thomas Covenant." Just the mention of Covenants name is enough to give her hope (Do you think that she loves him? Maybe ) She begins to eat in the hopes of seeing TC again, but too soon, the raver pays her another visit. It is sudden and Linden is so taken aback by his evil and ill that she is practically thrust against the wall. The raver impales her soul with the knowledge that she is responsible for the Land - "the pricipal doom of the Land is upon your shoulders." He tells her that she was "chosen" for this desecration "because you can see."
So horrified by the ravers words, Linden escapes into herself and shuts down her senses. Never again.[/quote]
This very short chapter begins with Linden's thoughts after TC entered Andelain. Although Linden is content with her decision to remain behind with Sunder and Hollian, she feels bereft of Covenant's company. More than bereft - she feels almost abandoned. She bars up her senses and settles in to wait for Covenants return.
Suddenly, the group is captured and taken to Stonemight Woodhelven, where the residents are possessed by the Illearth Stone. Their intention is to slay (sacrifice?) the group in the morning. This does not happen, however, and a rider of the Clave, Santonin na-Mhoram-in, comes to escort them to Revelstone.
Santonin "compells" the three companions toward Revelstone. They have no will of their own, can not even eat unless Santonin compells them to it.
They reach Revelstone and Linden, Sunder,and Hollian are so thoroughly "compelled" that they cannot even appreciate the grandeur of Revelstone. In the past books, Revelstone was always a wonderous, strong home that Covenant was always in awe of. Now, Donaldson makes the companions entrance into Revelstone unremarkable - as their forced coersion insists.
They are brought to the former council chamber of Revelstone. It has been altered in that it looks like lava has flown down the walls and erased any former brilliance of the room. No longer the highly polished floor that seemed to have the sun within it. No longer the balconies to sit and listen. The heart of Revelstone has been forgotten. Had Linden not been compelled, I'm sure she would have wailed from the pain of the stone.
In the chamber, they come before another man in black robes and holding a crozier and a piece of the Illearth Stone. He had hopes of finding Covenant. Even in her stupor, Linden can see and feel the ill of the Illearth Stone. The man is a raver and faces Linden. He tells her that he must not harm her because she will do more damage unharmed - more than he could ever hope for! He turns to Sunder and HOllian and asks where Covenant is. Sunder refuses to talk, to his detriment, and Hollian lies and tell the raver that TC died in Andelian and he did not return. The raver knows this is a lie and asks why they want him to believe that the white gold still lives. Sunder replies: "I wish you to fear." (I love that line. What bravado and arrogance! Bravo, Sunder! )
They are taken to the hold where Linden, finally released from the raver, is left "helpless and soul-naked." She is empty and can do nothing to refill herself. Out of the darkeness of her personal madness, she hears a flat, alien voice say, "Ur-lord Thomas Covenant." Just the mention of Covenants name is enough to give her hope (Do you think that she loves him? Maybe ) She begins to eat in the hopes of seeing TC again, but too soon, the raver pays her another visit. It is sudden and Linden is so taken aback by his evil and ill that she is practically thrust against the wall. The raver impales her soul with the knowledge that she is responsible for the Land - "the pricipal doom of the Land is upon your shoulders." He tells her that she was "chosen" for this desecration "because you can see."
So horrified by the ravers words, Linden escapes into herself and shuts down her senses. Never again.[/quote]
The King has one more move.
- Earthblood
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Did you take a shower today caam?? (JK )
This chapter sort of made me feel a little ill, mostly due to the state of Revelstone. Yo're right caam - previously, whenever SRD had us entering Revelstone, there was a beautiful & detailed description of the entrance, or the facing walls, or the Keep.....drawing you enthusiastically in.
Now, they are forced to enter, the place is described more as a tomb and the Keep is utterly ravaged. Not exactly the prized gift of the Unhomed anymore, is it?
Couple that with Linden's revulsion & fear of the Raver....
Sunder getting "in the Raver's face" saying "I wish you to fear" is so totally cool & tough - Sunder is really starting to show his stuff!!!
(Hang in caam - this is a tough chapter)
This chapter sort of made me feel a little ill, mostly due to the state of Revelstone. Yo're right caam - previously, whenever SRD had us entering Revelstone, there was a beautiful & detailed description of the entrance, or the facing walls, or the Keep.....drawing you enthusiastically in.
Now, they are forced to enter, the place is described more as a tomb and the Keep is utterly ravaged. Not exactly the prized gift of the Unhomed anymore, is it?
Couple that with Linden's revulsion & fear of the Raver....
Sunder getting "in the Raver's face" saying "I wish you to fear" is so totally cool & tough - Sunder is really starting to show his stuff!!!
(Hang in caam - this is a tough chapter)
- danlo
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It's not your fault caam-you've done a magnificent job on both your chapters. This is a typically a slow month for posting on the Watch and alot other people would rather play games (see Dromond's post in "When is the next discussion"). This may be the toughest time in all of the Dissection as TWL, and especially these parts of it, is the most bitter pill of all the series to swallow.
fall far and well Pilots!
- Furls Fire
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Caam! Excellent!
More heartbreak Revelstone!!! The beauty and strength and grandeur of the Giants gone! And Linden, her first sight of it as a chamber of unspeakable horrors, and not the magnificent Keep Covenant was first introduced too. I was just sick at what had been done to it.caamora wrote:They are brought to the former council chamber of Revelstone. It has been altered in that it looks like lava has flown down the walls and erased any former brilliance of the room. No longer the highly polished floor that seemed to have the sun within it. No longer the balconies to sit and listen. The heart of Revelstone has been forgotten. Had Linden not been compelled, I'm sure she would have wailed from the pain of the stone.
Gods, Donaldson really knows how to torture us...how much more horror can we stand??? A raver in Revelstone!!!???Even the sight of Revelstone itself, the Keep of the na-Mhoram rising from the high jungle of a second fertile sun like a great stone ship, could not rouse her spirit. She was only distantly aware of what she was seeing. The gates opened to admit the Rider, closed behind his Courser, and meant nothing.
Santonin na-Mhoram-in was met by three or four other figures like himself; but they greeted him with respect, as if he had stature among them. They spoke to him, words which Linden could not understand. Then he commanded his prisoners to dismount.
Linden, Sunder, and Hollian obeyed in an immense, ill-lit hall. With Santonin striding before them, they walked the ways of the great Keep. Passages and chambers, stairs and junctions, passed unmarked, unremembered. Linden moved like a hollow vessel, unable to hold any impression of the ancient gut-rock. Santonin's path had no duration and no significance.
Yet his purpose remained. He brought his captives to a huge chamber like a pit in the floor of Revelstone. Its sloping sides were blurred and blunt, as if a former gallery or arena had been washed with lava. At its bottom stood a man in a deep ebony robe and a chasuble of crimson. He gripped a tall iron crozier topped with an open triangle. His hood was thrown back, exposing features which were also blurred and blunt in the torchlight.
His presence pierced Linden's remaining scrap of identity like a hot blade. Behind her passivity, she began to wail.
He was a Raver.
"Three fools," he said in a voice like cold scoria. "I had hoped for four."
YES!!! Sunder!!!!!!!!!!!Then the Rider stepped to one side, and the Raver faced the captives. His visage was a smear of ill across Linden's sight. He gazed at her directly, searched out the vestiges of her self, measured them, scorned them. "You I must not harm," he said dully, almost regretfully. "Unharmed, you will commit all harm I could desire." His eyes left her as if she were too paltry to merit further notice. "But these treachers are another matter." He confronted Sunder and Hollian. "It signifies nothing if they are broken before they are shed."
He held the Stonemight against his chest. Its steam curled up his face. Nostrils dilating, he breathed the steam as if it were a rare narcotic. "Where is Thomas Covenant?"
The Stonedownors did not react, could not react. Linden stood where she had been left, like a disregarded puppet. But her heart contracted in sudden terror.
The Raver made a slight gesture. Santonin muttered softly over his rukh. Abruptly, the geas holding Sunder and Hollian ended. They stumbled as if they had forgotten how to manage their limbs and jerked trembling erect. Fear glazed Sunder's eyes, as if he were beholding the dreadful font and master of his existence. Hollian covered her face like a frightened child.
"Where is Thomas Covenant?"
Animated by an impulse more deeply inbred than choice or reason, the Stonedownors struggled into motion and tried to flee.
The Raver let Hollian go. But with the Stonemight he put out a hand of force which caught Sunder by the neck. Hot emerald gripped him like a garrote, snatched him to his knees.
Reft of her companion, Hollian stopped and swung around to face the Raver. Her raven hair spread about her head like wings.
The Raver knotted green ill at Sunder's throat. "Where is Thomas Covenant?"
Sunder's eyes were blind with fear and compulsion. They bulged in their sockets. But he did not answer. Locking his jaws, he held himself still.
The Raver's fingers tightened. "Speak."
The muscles of Sunder's jaw pulled together, clenched as if he were trying to break his teeth, grind his voice into silence forever. As the force at his throat grew stronger, those muscles became distinct, rigid, etched against the darkness of his fear and strangulation. It seemed impossible that he could so grit his teeth without tearing the ligatures of his jaw. But he did not answer. Sweat seemed to burst from his pores like bone marrow squeezed through his skin. Yet his rictus held.
A frown of displeasure incused the Raver's forehead. "You will speak to me," he soughed. "I will tear words from your soul, if need be." His hand clinched the Stonemight as if he were covetous to use all its power. "Where is Thomas Covenant?"
"Dead." Whimpers contorted Hollian's voice. Linden felt the lie in the core of her helplessness. "Lost."
The Raver did not glance away from Sunder, did not release his garrote. "How so?"
"In Andelain," the eh-Brand panted. "He entered. We awaited him. He did not return." To complete her he, she moaned, "Forgive me, Sunder."
"And the white ring?"
"I know not. Lost. He did not return."
Still the Raver gave no look or answer to Hollian. But he eased slightly his grasp on the Graveler. "Your refusal," he breathed, "says to me that Thomas Covenant lives. If he is lost, why do you wish me to believe that he lives?"
Within the scraps of herself, Linden begged Sunder to support Hollian's lie, for his own sake as well as for Covenant's.
Slowly, the Graveler unlocked his jaw. Clarity moved behind the dullness of his eyes. Terribly through his knotted throat, he grated, "I wish you to fear."
And I believe in you
altho you never asked me too
I will remember you
and what life put you thru.
~fly fly little wing, fly where only angels sing~
~this world was never meant for one as beautiful as you~
...for then I could fly away and be at rest. Sweet rest, Mom. We all love and miss you.
altho you never asked me too
I will remember you
and what life put you thru.
~fly fly little wing, fly where only angels sing~
~this world was never meant for one as beautiful as you~
...for then I could fly away and be at rest. Sweet rest, Mom. We all love and miss you.
- duchess of malfi
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Good job, Caamora!
Yes, this chapter is tough. So wrong to see Revelstone as a place of fear and anyone being 'brought' to Revelstone against their will. And their awe being misplaced, losing the sense of wonder at the Giants creation.
And Sunder! Having only just recently being shown the wrongness of the Clave, showing so much mettle,defying Gibbon na-Mhoram-in, someone he was told to fear all his life! He is a true servant of the Land.
Because you can see. Linden has a power recognized by the Raver, mostly unsure (by both) of what this means. Gibbon only knows that fear and violation and confusion is what he wants Linden to feel, and does his best to twist and wreck her soul. As we start to find out, Linden does not need a whole lot of prodding to feel unsure of herself.
Yes, this chapter is tough. So wrong to see Revelstone as a place of fear and anyone being 'brought' to Revelstone against their will. And their awe being misplaced, losing the sense of wonder at the Giants creation.
And Sunder! Having only just recently being shown the wrongness of the Clave, showing so much mettle,defying Gibbon na-Mhoram-in, someone he was told to fear all his life! He is a true servant of the Land.
Because you can see. Linden has a power recognized by the Raver, mostly unsure (by both) of what this means. Gibbon only knows that fear and violation and confusion is what he wants Linden to feel, and does his best to twist and wreck her soul. As we start to find out, Linden does not need a whole lot of prodding to feel unsure of herself.
And after Gibbon does what can only be described as Raping her Soul, Linden flees, far far down within herself."You have committed murder. are you not evil?"
- DukkhaWaynhim
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I think this chapter really drives home the difference in perspective that LA and TC have of the Land. TC saw bad things being done to a beautiful place in FC, but Linden never got to see any of that, so only has TC's word on how badly things have gotten, or rather the sense of loss at how things used to be. To LA, things probably just seem like Hell, which would be a fine academic topic if she didn't have to Feel everything in a way that she just wasn't prepared for.
In this chapter, LA is finally forced by Gibbon to permanently edit her belief that evil doesn't exist. Gibbon certainly violated her, but I think that the true twist of the knife was when he equated her own past choices with Raver-Evil, and convinced her that she would be the final downfall of the Land. To drive home his point he touched her, force-feeding her her own guilt, or simply overwhelming her super-powered and defenslessly raw Health Sense with industrial-strength, 100%-pure M-A-L-I-C-E.
Shutting herself down was the only thing she could do against that. A lesser person would never recover from that, for that is surely the stuff that nervous breakdowns are made of.
DW
[Weird, warped, and Wounded Land Rules!]
In this chapter, LA is finally forced by Gibbon to permanently edit her belief that evil doesn't exist. Gibbon certainly violated her, but I think that the true twist of the knife was when he equated her own past choices with Raver-Evil, and convinced her that she would be the final downfall of the Land. To drive home his point he touched her, force-feeding her her own guilt, or simply overwhelming her super-powered and defenslessly raw Health Sense with industrial-strength, 100%-pure M-A-L-I-C-E.
Shutting herself down was the only thing she could do against that. A lesser person would never recover from that, for that is surely the stuff that nervous breakdowns are made of.
DW
[Weird, warped, and Wounded Land Rules!]
"God is real, unless declared integer." - Unknown
For me, the desecration of great Revelstone was the hardest thing to come to grips with in TWL, next to the loss of the forests. If Andelain represented Earthpower at its purest in The Land, then Revelstone represented Earthpower service at its purest. Throughout its long history, Lord's Keep was the focal point of hope and strength against the Despiser; so to see this noble place become a Raver's perverted playground really upset and angered me. (I don't mean anger at SRD, just anger at the thought of a Raver inhabiting the halls of Lord's Keep.) Why should I feel such strong emotions over mere rock? Because it's not mere rock, it's stone that is "alive" with a sense of itself, capable of feeling at a very subtle level. So imagine the anguish that the deep heartrock of Revelstone must have felt at being "violated" by the presence of a Raver, and then to feel itself being turned into a place of malice and bloodshed. Thus, like Linden Avery who arrives within its gates under the whim of Santonin na-Mhoram-in, Revelstone is also at the mercy of the Clave. Lord's Keep is more than just a "place": it is a vital character of the story in its own right.
I felt deeply for Linden in this chapter. She had been deprived of love and beauty in her life, and has thus far seen neither in The Land, except in the form of Andelain--which she distrusts. Now along comes Santonin na-Mhoram-in, who deprives Linden of her very will. On top of everything else, that's just cruel. You know I was just begging for this Santonin guy to get a good smacking around, preferably at the hands of Vain.
This is also the chapter where we meet with the Haruchai once more in Revelstone, but now under shocking circumstances:
The bad news: they're imprisoned--in Revelstone?? And then the words of Bannor in Andelain suddenly run through your head: Redeem my people. Their plight is an abomination. What a cruelly ironic situation: a people that once served the Lords at Revelstone end up 4000 years later serving time under the Clave at Revelstone!
I felt deeply for Linden in this chapter. She had been deprived of love and beauty in her life, and has thus far seen neither in The Land, except in the form of Andelain--which she distrusts. Now along comes Santonin na-Mhoram-in, who deprives Linden of her very will. On top of everything else, that's just cruel. You know I was just begging for this Santonin guy to get a good smacking around, preferably at the hands of Vain.
This is also the chapter where we meet with the Haruchai once more in Revelstone, but now under shocking circumstances:
What-? How-? Why-? Okay, the good news: they remember Covenant!Ur-Lord Thomas Covenant...Unbeliever and white gold wielder, I salute you. You are remembered among the Haruchai...I am Brinn. Will you set us free?
The bad news: they're imprisoned--in Revelstone?? And then the words of Bannor in Andelain suddenly run through your head: Redeem my people. Their plight is an abomination. What a cruelly ironic situation: a people that once served the Lords at Revelstone end up 4000 years later serving time under the Clave at Revelstone!
- duchess of malfi
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I'm still back on chapter 10, but I had to respond to what Dromond said here...
Yes, I also see what the Raver does to Linden as a form of rape...
And there is a symmetry of sorts to it, for it puts Thomas Covenant in Triock's shoes...now instead of raping an innocent victim, as he did in Lord Foul's Bane, it is the woman that he loved who is violated...
And just as Triock had not fully disclosed his feelings of love to Lena ( he was waiting for her to come of age before he declared himself), Thomas has not fully disclosed his feelings to Linden...
And just as Triock had to attempt to deal with emotional aftermath of what had been done to Lena, so Thomas will have to attempt to deal with the horrible crime done to Linden...
Things have come around in a circle of sorts...
Yes, I also see what the Raver does to Linden as a form of rape...
And there is a symmetry of sorts to it, for it puts Thomas Covenant in Triock's shoes...now instead of raping an innocent victim, as he did in Lord Foul's Bane, it is the woman that he loved who is violated...
And just as Triock had not fully disclosed his feelings of love to Lena ( he was waiting for her to come of age before he declared himself), Thomas has not fully disclosed his feelings to Linden...
And just as Triock had to attempt to deal with emotional aftermath of what had been done to Lena, so Thomas will have to attempt to deal with the horrible crime done to Linden...
Things have come around in a circle of sorts...
- DukkhaWaynhim
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That's a good point, Dromond. It's my opinion, though, that Linden always had a much greater Health-Sense ability than anyone has ever had, in addition to her personal history that magnifies her vulnerability to the concept of Evil.
TC is also a naturally non-empathic person [read "male"], but the real reason is that he doesn't yet know the particulars of Lindens history that make her so ripe for Raver-brand emotional torture .
Related Idea: Myself, I've always thought of LF as TC's arch-antagonist, but Gibbon [and the Ravers in general] always seemed more personally antagonistic to LA, because of her history. Not to say that she and LF are pals, or anything...
DW
TC is also a naturally non-empathic person [read "male"], but the real reason is that he doesn't yet know the particulars of Lindens history that make her so ripe for Raver-brand emotional torture .
Related Idea: Myself, I've always thought of LF as TC's arch-antagonist, but Gibbon [and the Ravers in general] always seemed more personally antagonistic to LA, because of her history. Not to say that she and LF are pals, or anything...
DW
"God is real, unless declared integer." - Unknown
- kastenessen
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Great Caamora! And yes it was a hard one to swallow this. More and more horrors. Aren't he done yet, mr Donaldson?
kast
Never thought of this, you're right Duchess, great analysis and take on the rape theme, and this shows even more SRD's genious to twist and reverse the second chrons compared to the first...duchess of malfi wrote:I'm still back on chapter 10, but I had to respond to what Dromond said here...
Yes, I also see what the Raver does to Linden as a form of rape...
And there is a symmetry of sorts to it, for it puts Thomas Covenant in Triock's shoes...now instead of raping an innocent victim, as he did in Lord Foul's Bane, it is the woman that he loved who is violated...
And just as Triock had not fully disclosed his feelings of love to Lena ( he was waiting for her to come of age before he declared himself), Thomas has not fully disclosed his feelings to Linden...
And just as Triock had to attempt to deal with emotional aftermath of what had been done to Lena, so Thomas will have to attempt to deal with the horrible crime done to Linden...
Things have come around in a circle of sorts...
Do these words tell that despiser has known all along and actually taken part in LA's transfering to the Land? They are at least doomladen enough. And of the technique that tells everything and nothing at the same time. (They could be lies that is). Words of the same power and magnitude that TC recieved when he met LF at Kevinswatch both in the first and second chrons...how can you avoid them when uttered by a Raver!...with the Illearthstone in his hand!..."No, Linden Avery," the Raver said without pause."Abandon all hope of Thomas Covenant. The principal doom of the Land is upon your shoulders."
No! She had no defence against so much corruption. Night crowded around her, more cruel than any darkness-night as old as the pain of children, parents who sought to die. Never!
"You have been especially chosen for this desecration. You are being forged as iron is forged to achieve the ruin of the Earth." His voice violated all her flesh. " You have been chosen Linden Avery, because you can see. Because you are open to that which no other in the Land can discern, you are open to be forged. Through eyes and ears and touch, you are made to be what the Despiser requires. Descrying destruction, you will be driven to commit all destruction. I will relish that ruin.
Therefore I have forewarned you. So that you will know your peril, and be unable to evade it. So that as you strive to evade it, the Despiser may laugh in scorn and triumph."
kast
- duchess of malfi
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I feel so proud of Sunder and Hollian in this chapter. Standing up to a Raver like that!!!
And my heart really goes out to Linden...not even being able to eat without being instructed to...having her will completely taken away by the Rider...then being attacked by a Raver...
Go Sunder! Go Sunder! Go Sunder! And Hollian having the courage to lie to him...I wish you to fear.
And my heart really goes out to Linden...not even being able to eat without being instructed to...having her will completely taken away by the Rider...then being attacked by a Raver...
She had no defense against so much corruption. Night crowded around her, more cruel than any drakness - night as old as the pain of children, parents who sought to die.
This parallels Llara's experience at Soaring Woodhelven in <i>Lord Foul's Bane</i> -- she's told that the Lords will be ambushed by ur-viles, and then blocked from speech to make her unable to tell them.Therefore I have forewarned you. So that you will know your peril, and be unable to evade it. So that as you strive to evade it, the Despiser may laugh in scorn and triumph."
Same exact technique here -- the refinement of cruelty. The Despiser's hand at work again.
I don't think Foul was planning for Linden. Sure, Gibbon/<i>samadhi</i> says he was, but we've always known that Ravers lie.
Choiceless, you were given the power of choice. I elected you for the Land but did not compel you to serve my purpose in the Land... Only thus could I preserve the integrity of my creation.
Plus, Gibbon sees her as a possible Rival, because of her own inernalized hate and past actions.
Plus, the Ravers have always worked to try to get the White Gold for themselves, even while working for LF. Evil fighting amonst itself, sort of...
Oh, and the melted Close is the hurt that Trell had caused when he had attempted the RoD. The hurt was never repaired by the Lords before the Ravers had started to infiltrate them. Then afterwards, they kept it, because it fits with their mind sets.
Plus, a lot of the glory of Revelstone was also in how the Use and service of Earthpower helped to highlight the stoneworks of the Giants. Burned Wood torches that leave soot and scourchmarks definately doesn't do that...
E_T
Plus, the Ravers have always worked to try to get the White Gold for themselves, even while working for LF. Evil fighting amonst itself, sort of...
Oh, and the melted Close is the hurt that Trell had caused when he had attempted the RoD. The hurt was never repaired by the Lords before the Ravers had started to infiltrate them. Then afterwards, they kept it, because it fits with their mind sets.
Plus, a lot of the glory of Revelstone was also in how the Use and service of Earthpower helped to highlight the stoneworks of the Giants. Burned Wood torches that leave soot and scourchmarks definately doesn't do that...
E_T