Should the Internet be Age Restricted?

[Skyweir]

I work in K-12 and there are lot of applications being developed for monitoring kids online activity and alerting parents.
Bark is one: https://www.forbes.com/sites/amitchowdh ... cc3aa23d7f

Smoothwall: https://us.smoothwall.com

There are a lot of others.

Hopefully it will be adopted and become widespread. ISP and cell providers should get onboard with this. At least have it as a service option thing.

Excellent links HLT

We used an app like the one SB described.

For the most part it was useful. These look good. There are a number of things parents and supervisors can do to manage underage access.

Pete these aps and programmes have been available for the last two decades. Using them is what a number of us here have done.. for a variety of reasons ... but its not the same as what you originally proposed.

Even if ISPs provided age based access restrictions, that would be on a case by case basis. Again it will rely on the person who is contracted to the ISP to pay for that option. As it relies on parents to manage their childrens access.

And no, Pete, I do not think what I do because there currently are no age based restrictions on age based access .. or bans on access based on the age of the user.

[peter]

An age restriction law would not be enforceable just as the laws against smoking and the rest are not - but that doesn't mean you shouldn't have them. It's not about enforceability - it's about mindset. About moving the internet into a place that kids understand (and most accept) that they will ( horray!) be able to enjoy in an unfettered way when they are adults. Prior to that their access will be the equivalent of a kid in a car learning to drive. Controlled and supervised. It's about the state bolstering the necessary authority with which parents can supervise their kids activities. It is to help parents, not to punish them - to lend weight to their words when they say "No!" Most kids will accept this; it will have the side benefits that like every other dull activity they pursue at school (say English Literature), by the time they are old enough to do so they simply won't want to - and I think in all probability their lives would be enriched if they learn first to to find entertainment outside of the virtual world before being let loose inside it.

[Skyweir]

Its an ideal .. I personally cant see a law like this being passed restricting internet access by such an age restriction.

Perhaps you can lobby for such a law.

I am not sure kids would embrace accept it ... and to my mind it still wont address the problem you identified.

[High Lord Tolkien]

I work in K-12 and there are lot of applications being developed for monitoring kids online activity and alerting parents.
Bark is one: https://www.forbes.com/sites/amitchowdh ... cc3aa23d7f

Smoothwall: https://us.smoothwall.com

There are a lot of others.

Hopefully it will be adopted and become widespread. ISP and cell providers should get onboard with this. At least have it as a service option thing.

Excellent links HLT

We used an app like the one SB described.

For the most part it was useful. These look good. There are a number of things parents and supervisors can do to manage underage access.
.

It's actually more than just a content filter and restriction.
The software monitors all activity no matter the app and responds is if there are bullying terms or self harm comments or themes coming in or going out no matter what app is being used. That way it can flag and notify a parent if such activity is going on.
I think. That's how it was explained to me.

[Zarathustra]

The app isn't a bad idea, HLT. But that's quite a bit different from legally restricting the age for Internet access. And it still requires parents to give a damn.

[High Lord Tolkien]

The app isn't a bad idea, HLT. But that's quite a bit different from legally restricting the age for Internet access. And it still requires parents to give a damn.

That's true. Parents need to be involved to take action.
Schools are doing it because, among other reasons, they might be liable if bullying and threats happen on school equipment (chrome books for example) and school provided wifi.

Maybe once the ISP's start getting sued changes will go widespread.

[SoulBiter]

Maybe once the ISP's start getting sued changes will go widespread.

Why would they be sued? I don't get that. Parents need to take responsibility for their kids. End of Story.

[Cail]

Maybe once the ISP's start getting sued changes will go widespread.

Why would they be sued? I don't get that. Parents need to take responsibility for their kids. End of Story.

Right. Do you really want ISPs sued over content? That opens the door to de facto content censorship.

[Skyweir]

Agreed .. and Zs right the ap, program sounds excellent HLT but realistically it is different from making internet access under a certain age illegal and doesnt acquit parents of their responsibilities to parent.

[Orlion]

The internet should be age- restricted. No old folks! The Internet is for the young, not the foggies that can't comprehend this new-fangled technology and ways to communicate!

[Cail]

Agreed .. and Zs right the ap, program sounds excellent HLT but realistically it is different from making internet access under a certain age illegal and doesnt acquit parents of their responsibilities to parent.

Aside from the fact that there's no way to police it, we've gotten past the age of printed source material. Take away internet access from the young, and there's no feasible way of them doing research. We don't have the public or private libraries that we had 30 years ago.

[High Lord Tolkien]

Maybe once the ISP's start getting sued changes will go widespread.

Why would they be sued? I don't get that. Parents need to take responsibility for their kids. End of Story.

I'm not sure but I can see it coming.
If a radio station or newspaper took and broadcasted calls and emails from people saying your child sucks, is a loser and saying he/she should kill themselves (and then he/she does) that radio station or newspaper is probably going to get their ass sued off for allowing that content.

Why does Comcast. Verizon, Sprint.... get a free pass for carrying that content on their networks?

Also, some parents rape, murder and abuse their own kids with unspeakable crimes and neglect.
We get involved with those cases, we don't say "it's up to the parent".
A lot of parents suck big time.
Kids need help.

I'm all for free unrestricted internet content but I'm an adult (usually)

[Cail]

The problem is what's allowed, what's not allowed, and who decides. A third party or algorithm that's looking for "bullying" has no sense of context. Do you really want your ISP, or the police, or a division of the government pouring over your texts, emails, and social media posts flagging keywords? An ISP isn't a newspaper, no matter how hard you try to make the comparison. There's no editor, no ombudsman, and no other sort of gatekeeper.

Granted, it's different with kids than with adults, but that's why it's the parents' job to teach them not to let other people's words bother them. Some parents do, in fact, suck at parenting, but that's not a good reason to clamp down on the internet.

[High Lord Tolkien]

I think the cat's out of the bag on that one though. Everything posted online is data-mined now, even texts. Facebook is the latest example. One more layer isn't going to make a difference imo.

[Cail]

I think the cat's out of the bag on that one though. Everything posted online is data-mined now, even texts. Facebook is the latest example. One more layer isn't going to make a difference imo.

Well....yes and no. I have some very strong feelings about that, and have said so in the Tank.

With that said, you're asking for yet another layer....And in real time. And with some mechanism to stop bullying.

Let's say that Jenny sends Billy a PM suggesting that he kill himself. What mechanisms would you like to see in place? An email to the parents? The police showing up at Jenny's door?

And then what if it was a joke between the two of them, because Billy told Jenny that his parents were going to kill him if he didn't get his grades up?

[High Lord Tolkien]

I think the cat's out of the bag on that one though. Everything posted online is data-mined now, even texts. Facebook is the latest example. One more layer isn't going to make a difference imo.

Well....yes and no. I have some very strong feelings about that, and have said so in the Tank.

With that said, you're asking for yet another layer....And in real time. And with some mechanism to stop bullying.

Let's say that Jenny sends Billy a PM suggesting that he kill himself. What mechanisms would you like to see in place? An email to the parents? The police showing up at Jenny's door?

And then what if it was a joke between the two of them, because Billy told Jenny that his parents were going to kill him if he didn't get his grades up?

Maybe a warning to the offending sender from the ISP or Cell provider. to whoever is paying the service bill.
Something similar to when *cough* *cough* "someone" downloads a torrent and gets a piracy warning. Keep getting that and your service degrades and then suspended. (Never happened to me though, I just heard about that on the street)
I think kids would avoid getting their cell service cut above all else.

[Cail]

There's a big difference between downloading a torrent and saying, "you should kill yourself" without any context. I think that sets a very, very dangerous precedent.

[High Lord Tolkien]

Yeah, but that concept of piracy reporting or enforcement could be used for bullying.
Even just the notification part.

The software for school systems is getting better all the time.
I guess years ago with the software that school systems used there were lots of false flags but not as much anymore.

I agree it's a messy concept now but I can see something like it being useful in the future.
And the notification part would cover the ISP if they ever do start to get sued for responsibility I think.

[Cail]

There's a very slippery slope there. There are people out there (and a ton of stories from college campuses) that simply stating an unpopular opinion or <gasp> wearing a MAGA hat is "triggering" and a form of harassment and/or bullying.

This is not a road we want to go down.

[Skyweir]

I see what youre saying and I agree in part that some things today alleged as ... triggers .. are insubstantial .. and wisdom might dictate caution.

And yet I think if an algorithm picked up or flagged key words that might save a young life .. it cant be all that bad

But I think Cail makes really good point .. will the ap alert the parents, the police, who? What will the data collected demonstrate and to whom will it be demonstrated?

And what of privacy? Thats an issue that will have to be considered. And what if an older person is being cyber bullied ... who will be notified? When and how?

These are great ideas and good initiatives but at the end of the day how will these initiatives play out.

Dont misunderstand.. Im not suggesting NOTHING should change or nothing should be done. I hate the thought of any kid being cyber bullied.

I think the best way to help your kids is by assisting them to know their worth .. and helping our kids develop resilience. Teaching them that they control what affects them. Teaching them that they control the way they feel about themselves and their place in the world.. and the only way that can ever change is when the endow others that power over them.

When kids are taught to know their worth .. and taught that the only way others can effect them is by voluntarily surrendering their power to them ..and by doing that . they make anothers opinion more important and more reliable than their own... those kids possess the capability to rationalise and discern the value or lack thereof of harmful messaging.

Apologies ... looooonnnggg sentence. If I wasnt so tired Id fix it but .. meh... theres always tomorrow.