Watchmen Series?!?!?

[wayfriend]

Spoiler

I speculated that it's Europa, but it's certainly one of the moons of Jupiter, and there is a handy satellite nearby. It doesn't really matter which moon. You can google the screenshots. The important thing is that he's in our universe after all, but not on Earth. .... but I see now Lindelof has since explained that the moon is, indeed Europa. (It's the most famous moon, so it was easy to guess.) https://collider.com/watchmen-where-is-adrian-veidt/

Also

Spoiler

Other important clues are that the Kavalry is pro-Veidt. And has a powerful Senator. And a basketball.

[Skyweir]

Spoiler

I speculated that it's Europa, but it's certainly one of the moons of Jupiter, and there is a handy satellite nearby. It doesn't really matter which moon. You can google the screenshots. The important thing is that he's in our universe after all, but not on Earth. .... but I see now Lindelof has since explained that the moon is, indeed Europa. (It's the most famous moon, so it was easy to guess.) https://collider.com/watchmen-where-is-adrian-veidt/

Also

Spoiler

Other important clues are that the Kavalry is pro-Veidt. And has a powerful Senator. And a basketball.

Spoiler

Yes and thats truly concerning. Why the racism? Racist killings?

[/quote]

[wayfriend]

Spoiler

Yes and thats truly concerning. Why the racism? Racist killings?

That's the biggest mystery of all. No one knows where the show-runners are going with this show. Only the first 6 (of 9) were made available for reviewers, and apparently they were left completely stumped.

The ending could be explosive. Or a dud. It could answer all of the questions. It could leave us with a cliffhanger. It could be open-ended. It could punt completely. (Looking at you, Undone!)

I feel like the writers will resolve everything, because there's been good answers so far. But let-downs happen.

If you want to speculate, then above all else, remember that it's about wearing masks to "fight crime", above all other things.

[Sorus]

You're more observant than I.

Spoiler

My theory as of episode 4 was that he was on Earth, probably on Lady Trieu's land, maybe in some sort of holodeck-type thing or tucked into a parallel dimension. I thought he probably caused whatever fell from the sky in that episode.

Will be very curious to see what actually did fall from the sky.

[peter]

I'd be disappointed if the story didn't resolve at the end of the series. No doubt there will be more to follow - but to fail to give the stories an end just to keep us hooked for a few more episodes..... that would suck!

[Skyweir]

You're more observant than I.

Spoiler

My theory as of episode 4 was that he was on Earth, probably on Lady Trieu's land, maybe in some sort of holodeck-type thing or tucked into a parallel dimension. I thought he probably caused whatever fell from the sky in that episode.

Will be very curious to see what actually did fall from the sky.

Spoiler

If V was on earth .. then do you think the moon was a holoprojection?

I think it more likely on a moon or a parallel dimension. But I guess a holoprojection could simulate that mmm confusing

[/spoiler]

[wayfriend]

but to fail to give the stories an end just to keep us hooked for a few more episodes..... that would suck!

There is no season 2. It's a 9-episode miniseries, then it's done.

The original novel floated a number of mysteries, and then resolved them all, leaving Rorschach's diary as the only tantalizing loose end. If the creators of the series are honoring the spirit of the original, I expect it will end in a similar fashion. (With Looking Glass being the leading loose end candidate.) So I am not worried ... yet.

Regarding the last couple of spoilered comments:

Spoiler

It was a give-away IMO that V was not on Earth when the slave was put in a homemade spacesuit and he came back frozen. It was a giveaway that V was in some sort of bubble world when the catapulted corpses disappeared in the sky.

But as for the meteor ... it may be that all of the V scenes so far have been in an earlier timeline than the main action, in which case V may be associated with the asteroid that fell to earth. But I don't think so ... because of the Kavalry experiments in the mall. Also, how do you survive a mereor crash?

That being said, Treux must have known the asteroid object was coming well in advance. This is plausible merely by observing it in space while it's still far enough away, estimating it's course, etc. But the question remains ... what does she want it for?

I think that this is where her giant "clock" comes in.

Another wild idea: maybe this time the aliens are real.

[Skyweir]

but to fail to give the stories an end just to keep us hooked for a few more episodes..... that would suck!

There is no season 2. It's a 9-episode miniseries, then it's done.

The original novel floated a number of mysteries, and then resolved them all, leaving Rorschach's diary as the only tantalizing loose end. If the creators of the series are honoring the spirit of the original, I expect it will end in a similar fashion. (With Looking Glass being the leading loose end candidate.) So I am not worried ... yet.

Regarding the last couple of spoilered comments:

Spoiler

It was a give-away IMO that V was not on Earth when the slave was put in a homemade spacesuit and he came back frozen. It was a giveaway that V was in some sort of bubble world when the catapulted corpses disappeared in the sky.

But as for the meteor ... it may be that all of the V scenes so far have been in an earlier timeline than the main action, in which case V may be associated with the asteroid that fell to earth. But I don't think so ... because of the Kavalry experiments in the mall. Also, how do you survive a mereor crash?

That being said, Treux must have known the asteroid object was coming well in advance. This is plausible merely by observing it in space while it's still far enough away, estimating it's course, etc. But the question remains ... what does she want it for?

I think that this is where her giant "clock" comes in.

Another wild idea: maybe this time the aliens are real.

Brilliant and yes agree with your line of reasoning...

How interesting was this weeks ep? Angela gets to walk in her grandfathers shoes

Spoiler

but omg how brutal and unjust is racism and how he answered those injustices with his own sense of justice. It was such an immersive experience, one that Im sorry that any in rl ever lived through. But of course many indeed have.

[wayfriend]

Yes. that certainly was an OMG episode. It was incredible.

The "retcon" that they did to Hooded Justice may not be entirely seemless, but by damn, it's so good, so perfect, that I say it should always have been the origin story. And it was so well executed ... the imagery, the music. This show is really paying off now.

Also, we now have a lot more questions answered. Except this episode had no Veidt mini-ep, sadly. Maybe it'll be double next episode.

Spoiler

People have knocked the episode for using "stereotypical racism", portraying it as black and white rather than complex. But hey ... these were memories. The clean lines were not the reality, but it was the way Will remembered it, and so that seems forgivable.

The way Will rejected the idea of his son following in his footsteps ... he knows he's not really dealing out justice. He remembers very clearly what the Black Marshall said (which was repeated tonite to hammer it home): "There will be no mob justice today. TRUST IN THE LAW." Will's just executing on his inner anger. He knows it's a dark path going nowhere good.

BTW, I love the parallel between Will's origin story and Superman's. With the one obvious reversal: no Farmer Kent found him and took care of him; he instead found a baby and took care of her.

What is so gripping is, now we know that elderly Will did indeed kill Sheriff Crawford, and we know how. But we still don't know why! There's the matter of that Klan robe ... I believe Crawford claimed it was his legacy. Which Will criticized: You're proud of that, aren't you. I take it that Crawford's grandfather participated in the Tulsa Massacre. But there was also something Crawford said about trying to help "you people". (I need to review the exact dialog.) Now THERE is all the complexity you could want. THE ANSWER is deep in there, somewhere.

[Sorus]

That episode actually left me with more questions than it answered.

Spoiler

Okay. We know that Will and Lady Trieu are connected. My theory is that Will is a clone - which explains why he could pass a DNA test and why he'd need pills that contain his memories. Theory. They wanted Angela to take the pills and see what she saw - but why? And how did they know she would actually take the pills instead of just running them through the lab? Are they trying to protect her, or are they trying to use her for some unknown plot? And again, why? Assuming some connection between Lady Trieu and Angela. Maybe something to do with Vietnam.

Legacy gets mentioned a lot. Angela is Will's legacy.

Where does Veidt fit in?

And what in the heck fell out of the sky?

I think it's smart of them to wrap everything up in 9 episodes instead of running 9 seasons or whatnot and not knowing how to end it, but they do have a lot of questions to answer.

[wayfriend]

Yeah. That stuff.

Spoiler

I think you're right about the clone. I feel that Trieu's daughter is her own clone, and she's reliving her clone-mother's memories via Nastalgia. Hence that dream. Or partly right ... we have no reason to think that Will #1 is dead yet. Getting the Nastalgia for Angela doesn't require Will being cloned. But certainly Trieu created that Nastalgia.

I see Trieu as anti-Kavalry. Which is (one reason) why we see Will with her. Why Will's memories.

The Kavalry I (now) think are anti-Veidt. Veidt duped the world. The Kavalry wears the Rorshach masks because they don't like dupers of worlds.

It sort of fits in that the Kavalry prefers a world where nations and races are at each others' throats. They don't want world peace, they want violent Darwinism. So Veidt's Squid is their worst nightmare. They must hate all the "political correctness" which world peace entailed.

Which makes Trieu pro-Veidt. I think some other clues show that she thinks of herself as an acolyte even. She's certainly trying to save the world again, out of a desire to be a savior of worlds, but I am not so sure how much we should want her to succeed.

Still... The Senator will get a report about Veidt's Save Me on Europa, and the Kavalry will teleport him back to earth. (I predict a basketball suddenly appearing in a castle sometime soon.) Why? Maybe to put him on trial, or expose him, or something. Maybe to de-dupe his own dupe somehow. Cuz I do see them at odds.

Does Trieu think she can rescue Veidt from the Kavalry after the Kavalry rescues Veidt from Dr. Manhattan?

Then I think the blue hand of fate will step in.

[Sorus]

Spoiler

I think you're right about the clone. I feel that Trieu's daughter is her own clone, and she's reliving her clone-mother's memories via Nastalgia. Hence that dream. Or partly right ... we have no reason to think that Will #1 is dead yet. Getting the Nastalgia for Angela doesn't require Will being cloned. But certainly Trieu created that Nastalgia.

Spoiler

Agree, and I'll take it a step further and say that Trieu herself is a clone and she and Will go back a long way. But still fuzzy on details. The original Will vanished. Angela didn't know anything about him, so presumably he never had a chance to reconnect with his son. But maybe he was watching over his son anyway, maybe he followed them to Vietnam and met Lady Trieu. Maybe worked for her, maybe she owes him some sort of debt. I don't know. The idea that she's watching over his descendants is a little bit too cute - I think it's probably something deeper and darker, but no idea what.

[wayfriend]

BTW, I reviewed the end of episode 6 with closed caption enabled.

Spoiler

Crawford definitely says that he's trying to help "you people". (Who is "you"? Blacks? Masked heroes? Descendants of the Massacre? Something else? Point is: it's more ambiguous than it seems at first glance.

.... then again, Crawford admits he has no idea who Will is. Yet he can categorize the "you people" to which Will belongs almost immediately.)

But before that, he says that Will has no idea what's really going on. (And of course, doesn't then explain what is really going on. Nor does Will use his hypno-powers to find out what's really going on. Grr.)

Both Thomas and Roger Covenant have used the you-don't-know-what's-really-going-on line. Possibly this damns Crawford, possibly this redeems him. It all depends on what is really going on.

Crawford says that the robe is his grandfather's. Will says if you're so proud of your legacy, why did you hide it in a closet? My point here is that Crawford never claimed he was proud of his legacy.

Spoiler

What's happening? Who are you?

Justice.

Whatever you think I did, you don't understand.
I'm trying to fucking help you people.
You don't know what's really happening here.

You have a Klan robe in your closet.

My granddad's.
I have a right to keep it.
It's my legacy.

If you're so proud of your legacy, why do you hide it?

You don't know me, old man.

Oh yeah.
I know you.

Spoiler

... "Justice". Nice touch. The kind of touch that makes me squee.

[Sorus]

Yeah, my brain just keeps going 'round in circles. Which is great. I like shows that make me think.

Spoiler

At first glance, it certainly seems damning. But there's definitely behind-the-scenes stuff we don't know about yet.

Crawford's friendship with Angela seemed genuine.

You don't know me, old man. No, but Angela knew him. Maybe something clicked for her in seeing what Will saw.

(And how did Will know about the Klan robe?)

Trieu & company seem to be trying to recruit Angela to their cause or side or whatever you want to call it. Their opening move was to kill her boss/friend. Assuming the next episode is not going to begin with her trying to arrest one or both of them for murder. Which would point to Angela feeling their actions were justified.

It still feels like there's a personal element there. And a lot of effort involved in whatever their ultimate game is.

[wayfriend]

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[Sorus]

I agree & will add a WTF.

Another one I need to watch again. The main thing I'm skeptical about is

Spoiler

whether the 7th Kavalry really has the brainpower to pull this whole thing off. Lady Trieu is a genius mad scientist. Veidt is a genius mad scientist. Senator Keene is a guy who almost got himself killed by his own kidnapping hoax.

[wayfriend]

I agree.

Spoiler

I want to say that, as soon as Trieu said Manhattan was living in Tulsa, I guessed who it was. The casual mention of Cal having had full and suspicious amnesia was too coincidental. Amnesia is too perfect a way to cover up a fake identity. (Was Cal's accident ever mentioned before this point?) Fortunately, I didn't have to live in suspense for very long before it was confirmed.

I agree that we haven't seen the brains behind the Kavalry yet.

Veidt was back in the episode. I was struck by the fact that a whole year had passed since we had last seen him. Therefore: the castle story-line IS all happening in an earlier timeline.

This makes Veidt a candidate for being the brains. What argues against it is Trieu's affinity for Veidt, and that she got the "meteor", and that the Kavalry seems to be offended by Veidt's Squid Scheme. However, unexpected allegiances are part and parcel in this story.

I am really confused by the elephant.

Cloning, and the use of Nostalgia for the same, has been confirmed. Although with an unexpected twist. Therefore, we MUST conclude that someone else has been cloned. Someone important.

... Rorschach?!?!?! Crawford? (The notion that Will killed Crawford's clone explains a whole lot. Like everything Crawford said before he died.)

Looking Glass/Wade Tillman/Mirror Guy seems to have done the classic second act disappearance for the third act sudden appearance-which-saves-the-day. I am glad. I think all the dead Kavalry means he wasn't turned to the dark side. I would be happy to see Tillman confront his demons and save the day.

My impression of Blake's situation is that the Kavalry is using her as bait to catch Manhattan.

I don't see it working. I don't see how the Kavalry has a chance at all. All I can think of is: "Reassembling myself was the first trick I learned." What could they possibly do to him? Just how brainy are those brains?!?!

And the last scene was stunning. Even accepting that Cal is Manhattan, no one could have seen it play out that way. With a hammer!!!!

Is Manhattan's Cal-body a clone? This ties him to Trieu. Which means Trieu may be benefitting from Manhattan's special view of time. Clock!

Gosh, so many new angles to consider. I thought of three more as I was writing this. I am entertained!

[wayfriend]

Damn it.

Spoiler

You're right, Sorus. Will could be the clone. That would explain why his Nostalgia existed in the first place. And why he was NOT at the other end of the treatment tube.

Why would Trieu make a clone of Crawford to fool Will into thinking he killed Crawford? Makes no sense. ... unless it wasn't Will who was supposed to be fooled. Mrs Crawford!!!

[wayfriend]

Okay.

Spoiler

Trieu wanted both her parents to be there when she completes her "life's work".
She cloned her mother so that she would be there, ostensibly.
But what about her father?

Could Will (also) be her father?

Now that I think of it, why would Will be so old if Trieu cloned him?

Also, I think she needs her parents to be there for reasons other than sentimentality.

[Sorus]

Spoiler

Okay.

Trieu wanted both her parents to be there when she completes her "life's work".
She cloned her mother so that she would be there, ostensibly.
But what about her father?

Could Will (also) be her father?

Now that I think of it, why would Will be so old if Trieu cloned him?

Also, I think she needs her parents to be there for reasons other than sentimentality.

Spoiler

Trieu's father is definitely going to be someone we know. Veidt is the obvious answer - but is he too obvious?

Is Will as old as he seems? We saw him walking around without the wheelchair and he ran errands while Angela had him 'captive'.

I agree about Looking Glass/Wade Tillman not having been recruited by the Kavalry - another mark against Keene's intelligence in both failing to recruit him and failing to kill him afterwards.

My question is - did they build the portal machine?

Spoiler

It was a CX-924 teleportation window. Just like the one they were playing around with at the Institute for Transdimensional Studies in Herald Square on 11/2.

Spoiler

I think it is the same machine. They got their hands on it, salvaged batteries and whatnot to power it, but they're still figuring out how to use it, hence the basketball.

Are the recent squid a lingering result of Veidt's original plan, or is the Kavalry responsible for them?

Spoiler

My impression of Blake's situation is that the Kavalry is using her as bait to catch Manhattan.

Spoiler

I'd been trying to wrap my mind around why Keene wanted a federal agent who wasn't sympathetic to his cause nosing around in the first place. That does make sense. But yeah, I really can't connect the dots on how they're going to steal Dr. Manhattan's power.

Also, a pretty long list of people seemed to know the truth about Cal/Dr. Manhattan. How did they know, and why did Blake of all people think he was still on Mars? What's her reaction when she finds out he's been living happily married on Earth this whole time?

Spoiler

This makes Veidt a candidate for being the brains. What argues against it is Trieu's affinity for Veidt, and that she got the "meteor", and that the Kavalry seems to be offended by Veidt's Squid Scheme. However, unexpected allegiances are part and parcel in this story.

Spoiler

On the one hand, Veidt siding with the Kavalry seems to go against his whole reason for unleashing Squidageddon in the first place.

On the other hand, he's batshit crazy, obsessed with Dr. Manhattan, and has a rather cavalier attitude towards random murder.