The Impeachment Inquiry

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Hashi Lebwohl
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Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

Bolton won't need to be sobpoenaed because he would willingly testify against Trump. If they start now they should be able to impeach again by the time the Democrat National Convention takes place. After that, Nancy can hold on to the articles until late September before sending them to the Senate. I am confident that is what a majority if Democrats want.

They do realize that they will not pick up 20 seats in the Senate, right? They know he will still be impeachment-proof, right?
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Well, that's that waste of time done with. :D No surprises (Except whatsisname not toeing the party line maybe, and isn't he an opponent for the nomination?) (Has an incumbent ever not been the nominee?)

Right, let's get November done with, and then the next 4 years so we can see what happens. :D

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Post by sgt.null »

Av - Franklin Pierce, of my home state
Of New Hampshire is the only incumbent
Not to be renominated.
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Hashi Lebwohl
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Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

Vindman got fired from his NSC position--big surprise there, since he is the one to whom the whistleblower, Eric Ciaramella, ran crying--and Gordon Sondland, U.S. Ambassador to the European Union has been recalled....so I suppose I should call him "former Ambassador". Since acquittal, 8 out of the 12 people who testified against Trump have been fired, reassigned, or resigned--actions have consequences, people. Did they really think that Trump would not act against them in some way? Did they think he would be removed from office? Just what the hell were they thinking?

Democrats are crying about the firings and reassignments, but remember the good old days when Obama aggressively targeted leakers and whistleblowers?

edit/add:
Actually, in the aftermath of all this impeachment nonsense I decided to take a step back and look at the situation again. I started with "why?". Why did the House of Representatives impeach Trump over the phone call with Zelensky on very tenuous and shaky ground when they had a much better case via Emoluments? Well, they impeached him because of the whistleblower, Eric Ciaramella, and others raised concerns that Trump was bribing or seeking "quid pro quo" with Zelensky over investigations into Hunter Biden--who is not Trump's political opponent--and Burisma. Why did those people freak out about potential investigations into Burisma and PrivatBank, the bank through which all our military aid was being funneled?

What was really going on with Burisma and PrivatBank that makes them so nervous that they are willing to impeach a sitting POTUS for even mentioning investigations?

The two pieces of good news: 1) I have access to the Internet and 2) we have a long thread about Ukraine going back to early 2014, with news article citations in them, because of our esteemed fellow Watchmember who was there at the time.
Bad news: it is taking quite a while to get all the notes put together and connect the dots.

Let me try to condense what I suspect might have been happening. Hang on, folks--conspiracy time.
I am beginning to suspect that Joe Biden and John Kerry were pulling an Iran-Contra/plausible deniabiilty thing behind Obama's back, funneling money into Ukraine so that oligarchs there could field mercenary teams and fight a hot war on the ground against Russia.

I will let you know when I have more notes compiled to begin linking the dots.

We even cited the news story back in 2014 when Hunter was first appointed to the board at Burisma.

Ukraine asked the United States for lethal military aid in September 2014.

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Post by Obi-Wan Nihilo »

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:Vindman got fired from his NSC position--
This is incorrect. Vindman is military. He was not fired, he was reassigned.
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Obi-Wan Nihilo wrote:
Hashi Lebwohl wrote:Vindman got fired from his NSC position--
This is incorrect. Vindman is military. He was not fired, he was reassigned.
and how much you want to bet that he will not be selected for Colonel and be forced to retire.

For all intents and purposes, he's fired.
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Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

Either way, he did it to himself. Actions have consequences--you would think that a mature adult who is an officer in the military would understand that, but apparentely he did not.

Trump will only fire you if you cross him. Obama would have had his media friends trash-talk you and the Clintons would "suicide" you.
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sgt.null wrote:Av - Franklin Pierce, of my home state
Of New Hampshire is the only incumbent
Not to be renominated.
Thanks Sarge.

As for those who got the chop...didn't they just testify truthfully under oath at the behest of a congressional subpoena?


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Hashi Lebwohl
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Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

I think some of them were subpoenaed and voluntarily complied. They did not break any laws by testifying, of course, but they did step on Trump's toes--even if they disagree with him he is still their boss and this caused him to lose trust in them.
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Post by Obi-Wan Nihilo »

Rawedge Rim wrote:
Obi-Wan Nihilo wrote:
Hashi Lebwohl wrote:Vindman got fired from his NSC position--
This is incorrect. Vindman is military. He was not fired, he was reassigned.
and how much you want to bet that he will not be selected for Colonel and be forced to retire.

For all intents and purposes, he's fired.
Sorry, that's not nearly the same. Someone who's fired doesn't get to keep their seniority or get reassigned to a new job that pays the same. Ask anyone who's been fired.
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Post by Rawedge Rim »

Obi-Wan Nihilo wrote:
Rawedge Rim wrote:
Obi-Wan Nihilo wrote:This is incorrect. Vindman is military. He was not fired, he was reassigned.
and how much you want to bet that he will not be selected for Colonel and be forced to retire.

For all intents and purposes, he's fired.
Sorry, that's not nearly the same. Someone who's fired doesn't get to keep their seniority or get reassigned to a new job that pays the same. Ask anyone who's been fired.
for a career military officer, it's the same thing. He will not be selected for advancement to Colonel and will be forced to retire.

OTOH, he will probably write a book and go on the lecture circuit, so I don't think he'll be hurt financially in the long term.
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Post by SoulBiter »

Rawedge Rim wrote:
Obi-Wan Nihilo wrote:
Rawedge Rim wrote: and how much you want to bet that he will not be selected for Colonel and be forced to retire.

For all intents and purposes, he's fired.
Sorry, that's not nearly the same. Someone who's fired doesn't get to keep their seniority or get reassigned to a new job that pays the same. Ask anyone who's been fired.
for a career military officer, it's the same thing. He will not be selected for advancement to Colonel and will be forced to retire.

OTOH, he will probably write a book and go on the lecture circuit, so I don't think he'll be hurt financially in the long term.

Agreed. Not quite the same as civilian firing but just as effective
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Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

The Roger Stone scenario--he was found guilty of lying to Congress (not under oath, which would be perjury, but just ordinary lying to Congress) and now AG Barr has gotten his sentencing delayed and some of the prosecutors have left the case, meaning it may be dropped--could potentially be a new avenue of impeachment the House makes, presuming they can prove that Trump ordered Barr to intervene to get Stone off the hook.

The problem Democrats face there, though, is that the Stone scenario could be a rope-a-dope--a situation which appears to be impeachable but, upon investigating, really isn't. If they rush to impeach they will wind up with egg on their faces again but if they don't impeach it appears as if they are "letting Trump get away with it" (whatever "it" is).

Barr is voluntarily going to testify before Congress in March; some Democrats are already calling for is resignation.
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Post by sgt.null »

The jury foreman in the Stone case
Is a hard core Democrat and has
Deleted her social media accounts.
This seems obvious grounds for mistrial.
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Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

Every conviction that came from Mueller must be overturned because they are all politically motivated at their foundation. The Mueller team had infinite latitidue to look into anything they felt like looking into, whether it had anything to with Russia or not. It was more of an open-ended fishing expedition than an investigation and it netted only small fish, except for Manafort.

Barr basically told Trump to quit Tweeting so much because sometimes it interferes with him doing his job. Trump won't listen, of course, but it is telling when even his own supporters advising him to chill out.
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Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

Indeed, but no one is going to do anything about it because they can't do anything about it. In this election cycle, though, Trump does not need to look anywher for dirt on the candidates except their own records.
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Because politicians lying have zero consequences. (And nobody wants to change that, because it benefits them all.)

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Hashi Lebwohl
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Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

Lies will certainly have zero consequences this election cycle. Everyone who is going to vote for Trump has decided that they are going to vote for him unless he backhands Melania on camera. Everyone who is going to vote against Trump--let's be truthful here, because the vast majority of Democrat voters are not voting *for* someone but *against* Trump--is going to vote against him even if he personally developed a universal cure for cancer.

The only "undecided voters" are the one who are still uncertain whether they want to vote for Bernie, Bloomberg, Buttigieg, or Warren. Once the primaries are done there won't be any "undecided" voters. Anyone claiming they are undecided is lying and just doesn't want to reveal their choice publicly. Of course, if a voter is not willing to openly admit their intended choice that means they are somehow ashamed of their choice.
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:LOLS: I won't speculate on why they might be... :D

Even after the election cycle it doesn't matter. Nobody holds them to account for the lies they told in the past when the next time comes to vote either.

Decline and fall guys, decline and fall...

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