Pox: Why We Have Nothing to Fear From A Sanders Presidency

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Gaius Octavius
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Pox: Why We Have Nothing to Fear From A Sanders Presidency

Post by Gaius Octavius »

Let me summarize:

-He is really popular among disaffected Millennials.
-He will abolish Health Care and give free college tuition.
-All student loan debt will be wiped off.
-Sanders is a true progressive. He loves gay, trans and Latinx people. One of his favorite Latinx persons of all time is Fidel Castro, former president of Cuba.
-When the mass executions of political enemies begin in Times Square, he will employ humane execution methods.
-He will increase literacy rates in the savage areas of the country.
-He is a people person.
-He is always consistent.
-He hates Wall Street.
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Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

Presuming the the DNC lets him have the nomination, as well as presuming that he wins in November, as well as presuming that his health does not cause any problems, a Sanders Presidency has two main problems that would get in the way of implementing everything he wants to implement: the Senate and the SCOTUS.

Sweeping changes to immigration law, the tax code, dismantling the ACA, earmarking Federal money to buy back all student debt, and expanding Medicare to cover all citizens (or persons in the United States, because you know they want to enroll illegal immigrants into Medicare because "reasons")--these all would have to clear Congress. The House? If nothing much changes, maybe. The Senate? Those measures won't even make it out of committee onto the floor.

This would frustrate him, so he would try the Obama tactic of "I have a pen and a phone" and issue some changes by Executive Order. The SCOTUS would meet, consider the EO, and issue an injunction against it.

These are the reasons I don't fear Sanders.
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Post by Skyweir »

Yeah agree for the most part ... lots of fear mongering going on about Sanders and progressives more generally... but its kinda oxymoronic

Id argue people want CHANGE and they STILL want something different from the establishment... I truly believe Americans WANT the swamp drained and Trump really hasnt done much draining πŸ˜‰

I think Sanders has what it takes to make CHANGE but little dramatic change is doable given the lack of power and support for dramatic change in Senate or Congress.

So given Overton Window principle .. he promises greater possibility for change than arguably centrists.
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Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

Obama ran on a campaign of hope and change then wound up delivering on neither one.
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Post by SoulBiter »

Sanders cant even articulate how to pay for everything he proposes. Do the math and you quickly find that there aren't enough 'rich' people to tax into bankruptcy to pay for it all. He also has no way to keep the very wealthy from moving to areas where they can protect their wealth from his taxes.

From my perspective, Sanders is running on a class warfare platform. My hope is that if he wins the nomination that he will be crushed in a general election, putting to bed any future hope of Socialism in the USA
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Post by Skyweir »

Haha thats funny cuz Sanders platform isnt remotely socialist ... its what I would call social democracy and what he stupidly describes as democratic socialism.

The things hes pushing are the things most western economic social democracies enjoy as their norm. healthcare, social welfare, public education.
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Post by sgt.null »

Sky - Sanders wants to destroy
Every job in the insurance industry
And convert it to the federal level.
The Democrats that couldn't run a
Caucus in Iowa controlling that
Part of the economy? And the Feds
Hzve oriven with the VA that they
Can not be trusted with healthcare.
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Post by Gaius Octavius »

Skyweir wrote:Haha thats funny cuz Sanders platform isnt remotely socialist ... its what I would call social democracy and what he stupidly describes as democratic socialism.

The things hes pushing are the things most western economic social democracies enjoy as their norm. healthcare, social welfare, public education.
Maybe by standards of other Western countries, his policies don't seem that unusual. However, for us Americans, they are pretty radical.

Maybe the policies he has talked about aren't overtly socialistic/communistic, but he does love to talk about "revolution," and he tends to make gaffes defending authoritarian dictators in the USSR, PRC, communist Cuba, Venezuela, so and and so forth. Moreover, the campaign staffers he hires tend to make rather disturbing statements (see the Project Veritas leaks) about "gulags are a good thing," "we will throw Trump supporters into gulags to reeducate them," and talk about violent revolution if Sanders is not elected.

So either Sanders is hilariously naive and a poor judge of character (which he might be) or we need to take what he says more on face value. He has repeatedly said that he is socialist. He very clearly admires communism or at least the regimes of the Soviet Union and communist China.

He is dangerous for America. Do not rely on the separation of powers and bureaucratic state containing him like it has with Trump on his more extreme policies. The political landscape of America is changing, and extremist and fringe viewpoints are becoming mainstream.
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Post by Skyweir »

I take all your points Null and Nano.

And I can understand that from an American perspective and having decades of the US system he seems pretty radical.

But the same constraints that impacted Trumps more radical drives ... wont just magically not apply to Sanders, should he win the nomination AND then beat Trump to the WH. πŸ˜‰ or back into the WH for Trump πŸ˜‰

To make any substantive change he needs control of both of your houses ... yep you guys dont call it houses but whatever, you know what I mean.

Has the swamp been drained?

Sanders will I think take a huge running crack at draining that fucker. And the Overton Window principle will be how he will do what he will do. Its negotiation. He wont bring the system down brick by brick ... but he will implement as much positive change as he can negotiate. Right?

If you have an establishment President that President simply feeds the establishment... youve had plenty of them ... white, wealthy, privileged, establishment patriarchs.

You know how that goes ... not up for something a little different? Cuz he will only be capable of little change, if much at all.
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Post by Ur Dead »

Sounds like he want to convert the USA into the old defunct USSR.
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Post by Avatar »

He only thinks he's a socialist by US standards.

I hope lie hell he gets the nomination. What will be really interesting is if he can actually mobilise a meaningful youth vote.

Again, I don't really see him winning the WH. But hey, I thought that about Trump too. :D

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Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

Skyweir wrote:If you have an establishment President that President simply feeds the establishment... youve had plenty of them ... white, wealthy, privileged, establishment patriarchs.

You know how that goes ... not up for something a little different? Cuz he will only be capable of little change, if much at all.
Bernie Sanders is a white, wealthy, privileged, establishment patriarch--the only job he has ever had has been "politician" (but I suppose you could include "author"--oh, and he loves capitalism enough to sell books to people, so it must not be all that bad). The only "change" he would bring would be the party affiliation of the POTUS because he could not enact his policy goals without the Senate, which he won't have.

Hillary's assesment of Sanders is what the Democrat Party thinks of Sanders.
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Post by Skyweir »

I
Avatar wrote:He only thinks he's a socialist by US standards.

I hope lie hell he gets the nomination. What will be really interesting is if he can actually mobilise a meaningful youth vote.

Again, I don't really see him winning the WH. But hey, I thought that about Trump too. :D

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Im kinda excited for Sanders.

Yes. Exactly but look at the crowds of ... lol πŸ˜‚ never voters ... hes already drawing.

I am hopeful

Of course hes a capitalist ... hes not going to do away with capitalism. The entire US economy is by n large unfettered capitalism ... hes seeking a better way forward where average joes dont die rationing insulin and shit.

Big corps, big pharmas have their buffers ... hes going to implement policies to assist the people. As opposed to the big corporations, mining magnates, the small big end of town etc.

In my perfect world a government takes care of its own. Its why theyre there REPRESENTING the masses.

They want their people to be educated, to have opportunities, to experience success, no matter the shape or form that takes.

Not unlike me ... I want my kids to be healthy, have a good education, not go hungry, have a roof over their heads.

If my kid gets sick I want them to get the care and treatment they need.

Right?

Thats normal ... Thats imv Sanders pov.
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Post by Gaius Octavius »

What are you talking about..."average joes rationing insulin and shit?" My grandmother was on Medicare and got all the meds she needed, no problem. I have family, mostly poor, that are on Medicaid.


I'm also literally on Medicaid because I technically have 0 income, as a student. It's easy to get the meds I need, and I don't have to pay anything for them. I don't pay for doctor's visits, either. I can get in to see a doctor in a timely manner, which you can't say about the UK and Canadian healthcare systems.

The thing is, if you have a good private health insurance plan, you get even better care. But if you don't, it's not like you'll die.

Why don't you come drink the sweet milk from America's warm teat?
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Post by Skyweir »

Im talking about this

https://news3lv.com/news/nation-world/u ... ng-insulin
"I think there's no question my son could still be alive if insulin had been readily available," he said.
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Post by Skyweir »

Seems not uncommon https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.the ... ical-costs

I have a gf who moved to the US with an American partner and had to move back cuz they couldnt afford to give birth there to their fourth child.
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Post by TheFallen »

Hmm. Obstetrics tourism, eh?

There is an easily maintainable - but sure, harsh - position that would state that getting pregnant and giving birth to a kid with medical assistance is effectively an elective procedure and therefore shouldn't be funded by the State. That would become even more easily maintainable once you get to prospective child #4.

It's just the startpoint for the equally easily maintainable position that people shouldn't choose to have kids if they can't afford to raise them. So, if you can't afford the desirable medical monitoring and assistance (if required) at the prospective birth of any child you may choose to conceive and aren't prepared to take the increased levels of risk and discomfort involved in a purely home birth... don't get pregnant in the first place.
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Post by Skyweir »

As much as I can applaud the pragmatism ... in the real world people dont apply sufficient intelligence and deliberation to all life choices made πŸ˜‰

A woman can go to any hospital here to have a child without fear of bankruptcy or significant financial hardship.

Though some women choose home births they arent encouraged in certain circumstances, ie placenta previa, gestational diabetes, gestational heart complications, uterine fibroids, amniotic flyid embolus etc ...

Managing births appropriately has assisted to reduce infant and maternal mortality. So theres that.

The difference is we have a public ally accessible healthcare system and public hospitals will treat anyone, for literally anything that is needed.

No one needs to compromise their health choices for financial reasons. If they do its by neglect or choice ..
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Post by Gaius Octavius »

I agree with Skyweir 100%.
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Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

Skyweir wrote:As much as I can applaud the pragmatism ... in the real world people dont apply sufficient intelligence and deliberation to all life choices made πŸ˜‰
Why should I have to pay for someone else's poor choices? Some other couple getting pregnant is not my problem--they did that on their own so they can pay for it out of their own pocket, don't steal the money out of my pocket to pay for "medical coverage for everyone".
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