When Menolly told me that the social distancing measures were going to adversely affect the hospitality sector, Ur Dead's point was not foremost among the impacts that came to mind.
Still, I suppose it makes sense.
Covid-19
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Gaius Octavius
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Well, if martial law gets declared, you probably will get your food and weapons/ammo confiscated unless you...well, you know.
How long until the National Guard starts shooting infected people and burying them in mass graves? How long until they take young daughters out of homes and rape them? Our military is too professional for that, but are you sure?
How long until the National Guard starts shooting infected people and burying them in mass graves? How long until they take young daughters out of homes and rape them? Our military is too professional for that, but are you sure?
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Gaius Octavius
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peter
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Reminds me of the guy who was approached by one such who asked him "Would you like to sleep with me for a hundred pounds. He says "Well I'm not really tired but I could do with the money!"
Meanwhile in the UK criticism of the Government's relaxed response to the outbreak is mounting with cross (opposition) party calls for it to release the data upon which it is basing it's strategy and to explain why this strategy is correct rather than the more proactive ones being followed by Ireland and Spain. In these countries schools and offices have been closed, the elderly and other vulnerable groups are being urged to self-isolate across the board, healthy or otherwise, and travel and large gathering restrictions imposed under law.
Here, on the contrary, the top Government man on public health has said that it would be "useful" if around sixty million people caught the virus, in order that the 'herd immunity' the government are after be established. That this will inevitably mean significant deaths in the shorter term while this immunity is being established is apparently viewed in the manner of eggs and omelettes. There is a bit of me that is with the Government thinking on this; it seems unlikely to me that you are going to physically stop a thing like Covid-19 - the best, it seems to me, that you are likely to achieve is to slow it's spread while some degree of balance is achieved, and you want to do this without tearing your economy to pieces if possible. It might be that the government approach strikes this balance better than the more damaging practices being adopted elsewhere (even if the cynical underlay in their thinking mentioned in my previous post is the case).
From my position the idea of being restricted to my own home and garden for four months, not having to go out and engage with other people or the outside world (Kevin's Watch exceted) has no appeal at all - none whatsoever!
Finally- I'm in my mid-sixties. In my life there has been a small number of world changing events and developments. The dissolution of the British Empire, the rise of neo-liberal economic thinking. The internet, the rise of globalization and corporatism, the fall of communism and of course the rise of Islamic fundamentalism and nine-eleven. I'm thinking that perhaps we are about to have another of these world changing 'events' to add to the list. Covid-19.
(Just to depress you further, the 1918 Spanish Flu outbreak actually lasted for around two years and came in successive waves of severity, presumably as new mutated strains of the virus evoved. This is our best previously experienced scenario upon which to model our response to the Covid-19 virus outbreak and as mentioned above, explains somewhat our Government's approach to the situation.)
Meanwhile in the UK criticism of the Government's relaxed response to the outbreak is mounting with cross (opposition) party calls for it to release the data upon which it is basing it's strategy and to explain why this strategy is correct rather than the more proactive ones being followed by Ireland and Spain. In these countries schools and offices have been closed, the elderly and other vulnerable groups are being urged to self-isolate across the board, healthy or otherwise, and travel and large gathering restrictions imposed under law.
Here, on the contrary, the top Government man on public health has said that it would be "useful" if around sixty million people caught the virus, in order that the 'herd immunity' the government are after be established. That this will inevitably mean significant deaths in the shorter term while this immunity is being established is apparently viewed in the manner of eggs and omelettes. There is a bit of me that is with the Government thinking on this; it seems unlikely to me that you are going to physically stop a thing like Covid-19 - the best, it seems to me, that you are likely to achieve is to slow it's spread while some degree of balance is achieved, and you want to do this without tearing your economy to pieces if possible. It might be that the government approach strikes this balance better than the more damaging practices being adopted elsewhere (even if the cynical underlay in their thinking mentioned in my previous post is the case).
From my position the idea of being restricted to my own home and garden for four months, not having to go out and engage with other people or the outside world (Kevin's Watch exceted) has no appeal at all - none whatsoever!
Finally- I'm in my mid-sixties. In my life there has been a small number of world changing events and developments. The dissolution of the British Empire, the rise of neo-liberal economic thinking. The internet, the rise of globalization and corporatism, the fall of communism and of course the rise of Islamic fundamentalism and nine-eleven. I'm thinking that perhaps we are about to have another of these world changing 'events' to add to the list. Covid-19.
(Just to depress you further, the 1918 Spanish Flu outbreak actually lasted for around two years and came in successive waves of severity, presumably as new mutated strains of the virus evoved. This is our best previously experienced scenario upon which to model our response to the Covid-19 virus outbreak and as mentioned above, explains somewhat our Government's approach to the situation.)
The truth is a Lion and does not need protection. Once free it will look after itself.
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
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peter
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How much of our Government's thinking in the decision to adopt a less aggressive approach to the virus outbreak than other countries is down to an underlying but unspoken belief that the main at-risk groups within our society are essentially economically expendable (think the old, the infirm, drug-users and prisoners) we shall never know, but it is no doubt convenient for them that this is so at the very least. There is irony in the fact that the same people who rose to power o the back of pouring scorn on the advice of 'experts' now find them indispensable as a shield behind which to hide in the announcements of their decided response to the situation. No doubt if the policy they have decided upon backfires and our death-toll proves to be much greater than that of countries that have adopted a more robust approach, it will be those same experts that will go to the wall as scapegoats, executed by the very people who now present themselves as being the sober followers of the received advice they have been given. Win - win I'd say..... what's not to like!
The truth is a Lion and does not need protection. Once free it will look after itself.
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
-
Hashi Lebwohl
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 19576
- Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:38 pm
The narrative being driven by the media who hate Trump is the attack, not the virus itself. When this first became a news story, Trump shut down incoming travel from China and the New York Times immediately called him "racist" and "xenophobic". Only when Governor Cuomo declared a similar ban did the New York Times sheepishly remark "yeah, we probably shouldn't have said that about Trump--our bad".Savor Dam wrote:The international nature of this pandemic rather suggests there is more to it than simply "an attach on the POTUS."
Every decision Trump makes is being criticized negatively in the news. While he wasn't declaring an emergency, and thus giving his office certain authorities to do things he cannot normally do, he was accused of ignoring the situation. Now that he has declared the emergency, if he actually uses those powers he will probably be accused of "abuse of power" or "that is unconstitutional".
Even though he was apparently exposed to someone who has subsequently tested positive, Trump has not been tested for it, himself--as far as we know. He is being criticized for this even though there is no law demanding that he be tested.
CNN had a story about a woman who helped an elderly couple at the grocery store. They were so paralyzed with fear they thought that by going into the store they were going to catch corona and die. That is what the media coverage of the story is doing--their coverage is making it seem as if this corona virus is like some sort of super predator, that is isn't just out there waiting to pounce on you but is, instead, actively seeking you out in order to kill you. That is the attack on Trump--his political opponents are stoking the fear so that people will begin to blame the man in charge for allowing all of this to happen.
Truthfully, I believe the anti-Trump media is overstating both the communicability and the lethality of this virus specifically to stoke fear and make Trump look bad. The regular flu kills tens of thousands of people in the United States every year, like clockwork, and no one bats an eye. This virus has not even killed 1,000 people here yet and people are freaking out as if the end of the world is imminent. When corona has run its course and when the piles of bodies in the streets does not occur like some in the media are suggesting, I want public apologies from everyone who hyped the panic.
The Tank is gone and now so am I.
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Hashi Lebwohl
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COVID-19 is nothing like the Spanish Flu--which, incidentally, also originated in China--because the 1918 strain usually killed its victims so quickly that it somewhat limited the spread.
The only way in which this virus will be of highly significant importance is when The Left here actually applaud Trump for implementing martial law to contain the spread. So many of them have bought into the hysteria that they won't mind seeing the Bad Orange Man overreact. The reason they want him to overreact is so that when this virus winds up not being as bad as we are being told it will be, they will suddenly cry in shock "omg--did you see how Trump wildly overreacted?! he is a danger to the country because he wanted to be a dictator and took advantage of the opportunity".
There is a little good news, though: The Daily Show, Last Week Tonight, Jimmy Kimmel, and Bill Maher are all suspending production of their shows--that is a few less liberal talking heads out there. Of course, baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer, and golf events/games are all canceled for now--no major sports, except for NASCAR but they are allowing only drivers and pit crews--no fans. Schools are closing, too, but a lot of elementary schools are keeping their cafeterias open because some students need the meal the school provides; of course, many parents use school as an alternative to daycare, so they are having problems.
Most States have enacted measures restricting events of >= 100 people. That is an excellent idea--how many people are in Congress again? How many of them are in high-risk groups for corona? Sounds good--Congress is hereby suspended.
The only way in which this virus will be of highly significant importance is when The Left here actually applaud Trump for implementing martial law to contain the spread. So many of them have bought into the hysteria that they won't mind seeing the Bad Orange Man overreact. The reason they want him to overreact is so that when this virus winds up not being as bad as we are being told it will be, they will suddenly cry in shock "omg--did you see how Trump wildly overreacted?! he is a danger to the country because he wanted to be a dictator and took advantage of the opportunity".
There is a little good news, though: The Daily Show, Last Week Tonight, Jimmy Kimmel, and Bill Maher are all suspending production of their shows--that is a few less liberal talking heads out there. Of course, baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer, and golf events/games are all canceled for now--no major sports, except for NASCAR but they are allowing only drivers and pit crews--no fans. Schools are closing, too, but a lot of elementary schools are keeping their cafeterias open because some students need the meal the school provides; of course, many parents use school as an alternative to daycare, so they are having problems.
Most States have enacted measures restricting events of >= 100 people. That is an excellent idea--how many people are in Congress again? How many of them are in high-risk groups for corona? Sounds good--Congress is hereby suspended.
The Tank is gone and now so am I.
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Obi-Wan Nihilo
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You really need to stop this. There will be no martial law, and no one's getting shot by the government. This is mindless fear mongering, and it does no one any good.ur-Nanothnir wrote:Well, if martial law gets declared, you probably will get your food and weapons/ammo confiscated unless you...well, you know.
How long until the National Guard starts shooting infected people and burying them in mass graves? How long until they take young daughters out of homes and rape them? Our military is too professional for that, but are you sure?
The media is trying to kill us. On CNN's international home page, these are the headlines:
What does Britain know about the coronavirus that the rest of Europe doesn't?
Here's what could really sink the global economy
This is Boris Johnson's worst nightmare
Naomi Campbell wears hazmat suit to airport amid coronavirus outbreak
What the actual f*ck?
We're being herded. SD, the virus isn't directed at Trump, but the media isn't letting this crisis go to waste, and it's directing its hatred towards him. He's done pretty much everything right so far.
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Gaius Octavius
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Hashi Lebwohl
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That depends entirely upon how successful Federal health agencies are at slowing the spread. If the current emergency, canceling events, increasing testing, and quarantining (either active cases or self-quarantine) don't appear to be effecitve then panicy people--and the politicians trying to appear as if they are "doing all they can"--are going to want more measures and more draconian measures. That would end at martial law. Law enforcemetn agencies are already comfortable locking down an entire area to look for a bombing suspect--we had a thread about that--so they will be comfortable implementing "shelter in place", curfews, and policies stating that you cannot be out unless you have a valid reason for being out.Obi-Wan Nihilo wrote:You really need to stop this. There will be no martial law
Once we arrive in the Upside Down, Democrats are going to expect Trump to go farther to stop corona. Of course, once we get there and the virus stops being so much of a thing, they will begin saying "see how readily he jumped at the chance to be a dictator?"
The Tank is gone and now so am I.
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wayfriend
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The Trump administration's botched coronavirus response, explained
From insufficient testing to a lack of coordination, Trump's response has been a disaster years in the making.
President Donald Trump's failure to respond to the coronavirus pandemic didn't begin with the administration's inability to send out the millions of test kits experts say are needed to tackle the crisis. It didn't start with Trump's bungled messaging downplaying the crisis even as it's worsened.
It began in April 2018 - more than a year and a half before the SARS-CoV-2 virus and the disease it causes, Covid-19, sickened enough people in China that authorities realized they were dealing with a new disease.
The Trump administration, with John Bolton newly at the helm of the White House National Security Council, began dismantling the team in charge of pandemic response, firing its leadership and disbanding the team in spring 2018.
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[link]
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Hashi Lebwohl
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For starters, no one can send out test kits for a disease which does not yet exist and this particular strain did not exist until about 6 months ago. That, right there, shoots down that article's entire credibility. Still, it isn't surprising--many Democrats are actually enjoying the current coronavirus because it gives them a political weapon to use against Trump. They actually want people to get sick and die from it, because every dead person is a person they can blame on Trump.
The Tank is gone and now so am I.
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peter
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I simply don't believe that Hashi. For all their opposition to Trump and their desire to him fall, the Dems are not going to will a national disaster on the US in order to facilitate it.
Of course Trump's Government (no more than Johnson's) cannot be held responsible for the Covid-19 outbreak - but the safety and well-being of the people in the face of any potential threat is the primary responsibility of Government and the experts have been warning of the threat of a global viral pandemic for years. The dissolution of the office for the studying and response to such two years ago by the Trump administration can be laid at his door, the failure to conduct the appropriate level of testing can (and should) be considered - the opposition would not be doing their job properly if they did not - and the mixed messages coming from the President himself should be put under a spotlight. Why would you want it not so?
Similarly in the UK, the Tory administration of ten years must own the degree of responsibility they have for ten years of austerity measures leveled at the NHS amongst others meaning that today there are 30,000 less emergency care beds in hospitals than there otherwise would have been. This is the nature of politics. Administrations must be held to account.
Of course Trump's Government (no more than Johnson's) cannot be held responsible for the Covid-19 outbreak - but the safety and well-being of the people in the face of any potential threat is the primary responsibility of Government and the experts have been warning of the threat of a global viral pandemic for years. The dissolution of the office for the studying and response to such two years ago by the Trump administration can be laid at his door, the failure to conduct the appropriate level of testing can (and should) be considered - the opposition would not be doing their job properly if they did not - and the mixed messages coming from the President himself should be put under a spotlight. Why would you want it not so?
Similarly in the UK, the Tory administration of ten years must own the degree of responsibility they have for ten years of austerity measures leveled at the NHS amongst others meaning that today there are 30,000 less emergency care beds in hospitals than there otherwise would have been. This is the nature of politics. Administrations must be held to account.
The truth is a Lion and does not need protection. Once free it will look after itself.
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
-
Obi-Wan Nihilo
- Still Not Buying It
- Posts: 5918
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:37 pm
- Has thanked: 6 times
- Been thanked: 4 times
Thank goodness the guy from the most racist city in the country, who supported suspending the 4th Amendment when there was a terrorist attack there, has posted a nakedly partisan link from Vox trying to blame the president who's been living rent-free in his head for the last 3 years... 
Meanwhile, rational adults are washing their hands and taking reasonable precautions.
Meanwhile, rational adults are washing their hands and taking reasonable precautions.
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Gaius Octavius
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 3331
- Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:32 pm
Sunday (3/16) Governor has closed down all bars... Ohio
Draconian measures are starting... like i said earlier.
If you don't take this seriously then you will be faced with drastic measures.
The Boomers can survive this but this is going to drive the younger gens ,
totally bonkers...
Welcome to the 1960's and there is nothing to do on a Friday night.
As a kid....
Funny thing about this virus... A Cold is a Coronavirus virus. This acts also
like the flu. The flu is not of the Coronavirus family. Seems CORONA-19
to be a mergence of both types...
/wonders...
Draconian measures are starting... like i said earlier.
If you don't take this seriously then you will be faced with drastic measures.
The Boomers can survive this but this is going to drive the younger gens ,
totally bonkers...
Welcome to the 1960's and there is nothing to do on a Friday night.
As a kid....
Funny thing about this virus... A Cold is a Coronavirus virus. This acts also
like the flu. The flu is not of the Coronavirus family. Seems CORONA-19
to be a mergence of both types...
/wonders...
What's this silver looking ring doing on my finger?