What if Napoleon had won at Waterloo?
- peter
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What if Napoleon had won at Waterloo?
I'm hoping that there might still be one or two out there that cast the occasional eye toward these pages, who might give the above question a bit of thought.
European history of the twentieth century was eventful to put it mildly and the other day, subsequent to thinking about how easily the Battle could have turned the other way, I began to ask myself in what way this could have effected what was to follow in the century thereafter.
Questions like 'would there have been a Great War (and by extension a Second)' ...... would the communist revolution have occured ........ would the UK have continued as an independent state or have been adsorbed in some way into a Greater Europe, began to rise in my head, and I realized that I had absolutely no idea as to how to answer them.
I think the problem is I don't know enough about what the immediate ramifications of Napoleon winning would have been in France itself. He would presumably have consolidated his power, rebuilt his army and have returned to his war against Russia and the Austria with renewed vigor. Would he have been successful in Russia a second time? Could the horrors of the twentieth century have been averted had he won at Waterloo?
Any thoughts?
European history of the twentieth century was eventful to put it mildly and the other day, subsequent to thinking about how easily the Battle could have turned the other way, I began to ask myself in what way this could have effected what was to follow in the century thereafter.
Questions like 'would there have been a Great War (and by extension a Second)' ...... would the communist revolution have occured ........ would the UK have continued as an independent state or have been adsorbed in some way into a Greater Europe, began to rise in my head, and I realized that I had absolutely no idea as to how to answer them.
I think the problem is I don't know enough about what the immediate ramifications of Napoleon winning would have been in France itself. He would presumably have consolidated his power, rebuilt his army and have returned to his war against Russia and the Austria with renewed vigor. Would he have been successful in Russia a second time? Could the horrors of the twentieth century have been averted had he won at Waterloo?
Any thoughts?
The truth is a Lion and does not need protection. Once free it will look after itself.
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
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....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
- peter
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Not strictly correct Sarge. There would still have been a Battle of Waterloo so theoretically the song could have still been written with slightly adjusted lyrics. Think;
My my - At Waterloo Wellington did surrender.
But you raise an interesting point about the song (and said line) itself, because it is inaccurate. Napoleon, if I have it right, didn't actually surrender. He was I believe either hustled from the field (or fled from it) and was apprehended some considerable distance away from it at a later point. (Was he dressed as a washer woman or was that Toad of Toad Hall? Oh well - same difference, they both wore tight trousers.)
Typical of the modern world. You can't even trust the Swedes to get it right! (Or is it the Danes? Oh well - same difference, they both wear tight trousers.)
My my - At Waterloo Wellington did surrender.
But you raise an interesting point about the song (and said line) itself, because it is inaccurate. Napoleon, if I have it right, didn't actually surrender. He was I believe either hustled from the field (or fled from it) and was apprehended some considerable distance away from it at a later point. (Was he dressed as a washer woman or was that Toad of Toad Hall? Oh well - same difference, they both wore tight trousers.)
Typical of the modern world. You can't even trust the Swedes to get it right! (Or is it the Danes? Oh well - same difference, they both wear tight trousers.)
The truth is a Lion and does not need protection. Once free it will look after itself.
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
- High Lord Tolkien
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It's an interesting what-if.
I don't know enough about Napoleon to make any guesses though.
Wasn't he usually a positive influence in the areas he controlled?
I have read a lot about the decades before WW1 though and I would think that if Napoleon ruled for a long time and was able to restructure or consolidate the governments of Europe WW1 might never have happened or been very different.
I don't know enough about Napoleon to make any guesses though.
Wasn't he usually a positive influence in the areas he controlled?
I have read a lot about the decades before WW1 though and I would think that if Napoleon ruled for a long time and was able to restructure or consolidate the governments of Europe WW1 might never have happened or been very different.
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- peter
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This is a bit along the lines of my thinking HLT. To answer the question you really need to know a bit about what happened after Napoleon lost (and in the subsequent decades) and it seems to be a bit of a mess. There was the reintroduction of the monarchy briefly (Talleyrand was instrumental in this I believe) and then the ousting of them again and the Paris revolution covered by the time of Hugo's Les Miserables (the barricades and all of that. Then the Franco-Prussian war of the fin de siecle and then......blurgh! It all falls apart.
Clearly had Napoleon won there would have been no reintroduction of the monarchy, so that's a start - but where you go from there is anybody's guess.
I'm going to cheat and Google it; I'll report back after a bit of research.
Clearly had Napoleon won there would have been no reintroduction of the monarchy, so that's a start - but where you go from there is anybody's guess.
I'm going to cheat and Google it; I'll report back after a bit of research.
The truth is a Lion and does not need protection. Once free it will look after itself.
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
- Damelon
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Any victory would likely have been temporary. Napoleon came back too soon. The Congress of Vienna was meeting, with most of the leadership of Europe in attendance. The political leadership of Europe was able in real time to coordinate a response to Napoleon's return to France. If Wellington and Blucher hadn't gotten Napoleon, the Russians and Austrians would have.
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- peter
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Here's an interesting quote from the Smithsonian on this very subject;
So that's a few ideas on how things might have progressed I guess - but is it sufficient to fundamentally alter what was to occur in the following century? Sounds like it might have been, but I truly don't know.If Napoleon had remained Emperor of France for the six years remaining in his natural life, European civilization would have benefited inestimably. The reactionary Holy Alliance of Russia, Prussia and Austria would not have been able to crush liberal constitutionalist movements in Spain, Greece, Eastern Europe and elsewhere; pressure to join France in abolishing slavery in Asia, Africa and the Caribbean would have grown; the benefits of meritocracy over feudalism would have had time to become more widely appreciated; Jews would not have been forced back into their ghettos in the Papal States and made to wear the yellow star again; encouragement of the arts and sciences would have been better understood and copied; and plans to rebuild Paris would have been implemented making it the most gorgeous city in the world.
The truth is a Lion and does not need protection. Once free it will look after itself.
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard