Steven Erikson

[Lord Mhoram]

Bought Gardens of the Moon today. I'm on page 46, and it's good so far. Reminds me of ASOIAF--all the characters, kind of a political feel, or so I can surmise from the appendix. This book seems fascinating and I'm going to enjoy reading it. Of course, it certainly helped that SRD wrote a recommendation for the novel. High praise.

[duchess of malfi]

I preordered it from Amazon, but something happened to hold up my order, and it probably won't arrive until I am on vacation.

[FizbansTalking_Hat]

The book is quickly becoming one of my favorite series. I love the intrigue and political plots within plots. And Lord Mhoram, you are correct, there is a definate feel of ASOIAF in the series, has that same kind of fast paced element. Cheers and enjoy. Too bad that you're in teh states though, cuz they already have all 5 in paperback up here in Canada, but I did hear from teh website that they will be accelerating the releases of the books in teh US one every 6 months, b/c it has already been released everywhere else. Cheers

[snake0024]

Tor has announced that Deadhouse Gates will be released in February, 2005

[FizbansTalking_Hat]

Just getting into Deadhouse Gates now and man I just can't believe how amazing this series is, so many different streams and stories weaving together many different things, religion, science, techonology, magic, gods, possession, etc..

I will give this as a warning though, its hard to get into at first. The style takes some getting used to. Cheers.

[Lord Mhoram]

I just finished Gardens of the Moon. All I have to say is: wow. This is the most impressive cast of characters in a fantasy series I've seen besides ASOIAF and possible Amber. They include: Whiskeyjack, Tattersail, Kalam, Rallick Nom, Cronus, the Adjunct, Anomander Rake, Baruk, High Fist Dujek, Empress Lasseen, Tayschrenn, Toc the Younger...way more. Wow. I was even able to keep track of them, except for the Phoenix Inn Regulars which I had trouble with at first. The funniest and one of the best parts of the book was Kruppe.

Spoiler

a.k.a: the Eel

. As Fitzban said (about book 2, though, I believe) it covers a vast array of topics...warfare, occupation, sorcery, politics, slavery, gods, assassinations....A complex and fascinating book. Highly recommended.

[FizbansTalking_Hat]

Haha, the Phoenix Inn regulars were indeed hiliarous, mostly the two whorish ladies that seemed to banter an talk about the most ribald subjects.

I'm just getting into the second book and its amazing. For those who are still wondering whta this series is all about I'll post an interview with Erikson about the series and the idea behidn it. Cheers.
An interview with Steven Erikson

To this day I'm not certain if I had in mind anything as ambitious as a ten book series when I first started Gardens of the Moon. We were starving in paradise, unemployed on Saltspring Island, and my wife was pregnant. We were scraping by on pick-up work here and there, and what was left of a Canada Council grant that I had received for a collection of short stories that had found a publisher. The house we lived in was eight hundred square feet, four up, four down, with the upper level serving as bedroom and studio.

I wrote six to seven hours a day, trying to pull together a complicated swashbuckling adventure that went after the worst of the cliches in the fantasy genre -- with a sharp knife. Many of the world's details and characters were culled from a role-playing campaign that had gone on for years, but a lot of the tale was invented on the fly. I had a chart on the wall, beside the huge window that looked out a treetop where bald eagles nested, and that chart was a work-in-progress that took shape alongside the novel itself. From the role-playing came, most of all, the atmosphere, and the playfulness woven through the darker threads.

I suppose the notion of a trilogy bubbled in the back of my mind (before trilogies themselves became cliches), but most of all, I was having fun, and I think the pleasure of that writing -- even after a half-dozen rewrites -- still shows through in Gardens of the Moon. If you can't see the author's grin on every page on that book, then you've missed the whole damn thing.

The thing is, an entire world unfolds in the process of writing a book. Characters stride into view living and breathing and they're less invented than revealed. They possess histories that reach back to the other side of Page One, and when the last page is done they don't go away. The world doesn't end. It lives on. Something like that begs for immersion, it becomes a place one wants to return to -- certainly as a writer and hopefully as a reader.

The trilogy idea took shape, then a fourth novel, and a fifth, and it became clear to me that one story arc, in particular, demanded even more. In a sense, it has proved the simplest of plot-lines; the complexity was found in the scene changes, in the background of events that comprise the construction of all those circumstances needed to serve that single arc. And that gave me what I wanted most -- two levels of structure. I could write each as a stand-alone novel, in terms of storytelling, since I hated then and still hate cliff-hangers with a passion. And at the same time paint a much larger picture, patch by patch, that finds final resolution with the tenth novel.

Thus, the Malazan Book of the Fallen….

[Reave the Just]

No offence to my friends "across the Pond" but the USA cover to Gardens of the Moon Sucks to High Heaven!!!

totally misrepresents the book and as cheap and nasty Brooks/Eddings/Jordan style drivel.

[I'm Murrin]

A common opinion, Reave The Just. How unfotunate that this cover be the first Hardback edition.
Americans: Import!

[Lord Mhoram]

I can't decide who that is supposed to be on the cover. Lorn and Whiskeyjack?

[FizbansTalking_Hat]

So I'm reading Deadhouse Gates and I am loving it, but I have a question, something I as discussing with some other fans of Erikson.

We've noticed that in this world, the way the magic works, the system, the way spells are cast, it's not always explained. It's just stated that we haev mages, and that they can work magic, the descriptions of the actions are there, but the books themselves don't have text explaining word for word what all is happening, more of just the actions, not the specifics of words or spells or components.

Now in some fantasy settings, these rituals are very well explained.

So the question is, what are your thoughts on this. Do you want a full description of all the spells and components and words being used. I know that Dragonlance sometimes gets detailed when it comes to this, maybe b/c it comes from a RPG world and setting.

But I've noticed that to a degree, Malazan world doesn't explain ti all the way, its just kind of shown in a movie like setting and you see it happen, and Erikson leaves it up to you to fill in the blanks with your head and imagniation. Your thoughts?

[I'm Murrin]

Oh, God no.
Stephen Youll kills the Deadhouse Gates hardback.
Yet another case of teribble, horrible, abominable artwork in a US edition. Shaik looks nothing like that. and There is no way that I will accept the man in the picture as being Leoman of the Flails.

Bring back Steve Stone's covers!!

[Ryzel]

So the question is, what are your thoughts on this. Do you want a full description of all the spells and components and words being used. I know that Dragonlance sometimes gets detailed when it comes to this, maybe b/c it comes from a RPG world and setting.

But I've noticed that to a degree, Malazan world doesn't explain ti all the way, its just kind of shown in a movie like setting and you see it happen, and Erikson leaves it up to you to fill in the blanks with your head and imagniation. Your thoughts?

I do not believe that it is necessary for magic to be explained in great detail, unless there is a story based reason for it. I do not know why the Dragonlance books have a great level of details, and it must be nearly 15 years since I read them now so I remember nothing of them, but I assume this is because of the books' close relationship to the AD&D Role-playing game. And quite frankly I find that system quite silly. It is NOT silly in its original setting int the Tales of the Dying Earth, but Jack Vance can make the most outlandish things seem "real" at least in the context of the story.

That said I think that we have to make the distinction between a description of how a person is performing magic and how magic actually works. If I remember correctly there is nothing in the AD&D game, and thus probably not in the Dragonlance books, which explains HOW the magic actually works. In this setting the magic is just there when the correct rituals are done. In the Malazan books we get the opposite; the mages open their warrens and do the magic. We are not told HOW they open their warrens but we know that it is because of these warrens that the magic works. In effect we are told much more about HOW the magic actually works and almost nothing about how it is actually done.

Personally I find descriptions of magic fascinating, even the silly ones, and would probably prefer that there were more of them but not at the expense of the story.

[I'm Murrin]

With the Malazan books, while there is little on how the magic user does what they do, I do believe Erikson is trying to include some more details on that area - Around the middle of Midnight Tides a character learns that they have some natural talent for Mockra (one of the Warrens) and it seems as though it may show the learning process of a new mage in later books through this character, adding to what we know of how the magic system works.

That being said, I do not think it is necessary to fully understand the magic in a book for it to be effective. For example in the Thomas Covenant books, we know almost nothing of how the Lords' power works other than that it is derived from Earthpower, but we don't really need to know more than that.

[Ryzel]

That being said, I do not think it is necessary to fully understand the magic in a book for it to be effective. For example in the Thomas Covenant books, we know almost nothing of how the Lords' power works other than that it is derived from Earthpower, but we don't really need to know more than that.

We know a lot more than that IMO. There are several passages and lots of quotes that deal solely with power in the books. The only one that I can think of at the moment is the one about desecration (...comes to any willing hand.) but there are others. What we do not learn is the technical stuff surrounding it, except for the few words of power and the fact that the Lords have staffs that they use to focus their power with.

About the wild magic we know many things, but most of them are still a mystery to me. "There is wild magic graven in every rock, contained for white gold to unleash or control." What is the difference? What can it be used for? There are a considerable lot of questions, but those come from the fact that we already know a great deal.

In fact the one thing we know for certain in the Land is that there is as far as I know no power that is separate from its wielder. The wild magic is TC, the Elohim ARE earthpower and the lore-works of the Lords are somehow part of themselves. Only the greatest of their works (Amok, Damelon's Door, The Staff of Law).

[I'm Murrin]

malazan.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=2206041581&f=7746005091&m=367101475

[FizbansTalking_Hat]

That would be FREAKING AWESOME!!!

[Roland of Gilead]

Murrin, you may be right that Youll's cover doesn't accurately illustrate Deadhouse Gates . . . I haven't read Erikson yet, so can't say. And I agree that Steve Stone's covers are very good.

Having said that, I still think as a piece of artwork, Youll's cover is excellent - and it may very well prompt me to start reading the novels. And that's primarily what the publisher wants from a fantasy cover.

[Old Darth]

The first book is in my reading pile. It will be a while before I get to it.

[duchess of malfi]

Same thing here. I did pick it up, but pretty much everything except short, easy reads is on hold until Runes comes out.