Has anyone tried OpenAI's chatGPT yet?

Free, open, general chat on any topic.

Moderators: Orlion, balon!, aliantha

User avatar
Zarathustra
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 19621
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:23 am

Post by Zarathustra »

I'd like to add one more thing about the false, slanderous charge that I'm only interested in antagonism.

I have a clearly articulated, well-documented world view that every problem in the world can be solved with more knowledge. I got this from reading David Deutsche's book THE BEGINNING OF INFINITY (thanks again, Peter!). He goes even farther to say that every evil in the world can be solved with more knowledge (i.e. the knowledge of how to deal with that evil).

Therefore, anything that impedes the acquisition of knowledge is simultaneously (though perhaps unwittingly) aiding the advance of evil by restricting the power to fight it. And THAT is my motivation in this (and most) of my posts that might otherwise seem purely antagonistic. By amplifying unfounded alarmism about something that can exponentially increase our knowledge, the amplifiers are aiding evil. That's my world view. Ignorance is evil. Arguing against an exponential decrease in our ignorance is evil. Arguing against the development and deployment of AI is advocating a restriction in our power to acquire knowledge, i.e. advocating ignorance. That's the literal truth.

Does knowledge aid bad guys? Sure. But bad guys are always wrong, primarily because they try to restrict knowledge creation by controlling others (e.g. restricting what they say/think), because they know that knowledge is what defeats them. That is why the good guys--armed with knowledge--will always win. The only way bad guys win is when we similarly restrict our knowledge, which impedes our ability to fight them.

The only antagonism here is just that little thing we call "good vs evil." The attempt to diminish the stakes is another call to ignorance (of the stakes).
Joe Biden … putting the Dem in dementia since (at least) 2020.
User avatar
Wosbald
A Brainwashed Religious Flunkie
Posts: 6084
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:35 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Post by Wosbald »

+JMJ+
Zarathustra wrote:[…]
wayfriend wrote:AI can generate essay answers for students. This is a fact. Yes, an AI detector can (at this time) detect AI-generated answers. But how many teachers have been routinely using AI-detectors? I presume almost none, as it has not been a problem until now. So now there is a window where teachers need to catch up to the new cheating threats -- that's a problem. And now teachers need to add AI detection to their workloads -- that's a problem. There will be the students who will get get falsely flagged (1% is thousands of students) -- that is a problem. Students will pay the price by having to take extra steps prove they are not using AI -- that's a problem. And we can speculate that AI will improve to the point where AI detectors can't detect it -- because that's what they are aiming for. And that's a potential problem.
Substitute ‘Internet’ for ‘AI’ and exactly the same thing could be said. Would you agree that the pros of the Internet outweigh these cons?

[…]
The Internet has been around long-enough for us to enact commonsense regulation to magnify the pros and mitigate the cons.

Why should AI be any different?


Image


Image
User avatar
Fist and Faith
Magister Vitae
Posts: 23438
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:14 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Post by Fist and Faith »

Perhaps after AI has been around long enough, we will come up with regulations that are both common sense and possible. I doubt it, but maybe.
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
User avatar
I'm Murrin
Are you?
Posts: 15840
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 1:09 pm
Location: North East, UK
Contact:

Post by I'm Murrin »

Zarathustra wrote:I'd like to add one more thing about the false, slanderous charge that I'm only interested in antagonism.

I have a clearly articulated, well-documented world view that every problem in the world can be solved with more knowledge. I got this from reading David Deutsche's book THE BEGINNING OF INFINITY (thanks again, Peter!). He goes even farther to say that every evil in the world can be solved with more knowledge (i.e. the knowledge of how to deal with that evil).

Therefore, anything that impedes the acquisition of knowledge is simultaneously (though perhaps unwittingly) aiding the advance of evil by restricting the power to fight it. And THAT is my motivation in this (and most) of my posts that might otherwise seem purely antagonistic. By amplifying unfounded alarmism about something that can exponentially increase our knowledge, the amplifiers are aiding evil. That's my world view. Ignorance is evil. Arguing against an exponential decrease in our ignorance is evil. Arguing against the development and deployment of AI is advocating a restriction in our power to acquire knowledge, i.e. advocating ignorance. That's the literal truth.

Does knowledge aid bad guys? Sure. But bad guys are always wrong, primarily because they try to restrict knowledge creation by controlling others (e.g. restricting what they say/think), because they know that knowledge is what defeats them. That is why the good guys--armed with knowledge--will always win. The only way bad guys win is when we similarly restrict our knowledge, which impedes our ability to fight them.

The only antagonism here is just that little thing we call "good vs evil." The attempt to diminish the stakes is another call to ignorance (of the stakes).
So all actions are justified so long as they advance knowledge?
User avatar
Fist and Faith
Magister Vitae
Posts: 23438
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:14 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Post by Fist and Faith »

I'm Murrin wrote:So all actions are justified so long as they advance knowledge?
It might depend on the definition of "problem".
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
User avatar
Zarathustra
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 19621
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:23 am

Post by Zarathustra »

Wos wrote:The Internet has been around long-enough for us to enact commonsense regulation to magnify the pros and mitigate the cons.

Why should AI be any different?
There really aren't that many regulations on the Internet. How could there be? It's a global infrastructure. Would you like us to be more like China in our regulatory overreach? Speaking of ... do you think China is going to limit their AI because kids might cheat on tests? If the AI gives them even the hope gaining an edge over us in the global economic and/or arms race, of course not. AI will be developed whether we like it or not. I'd rather we be the ones who do it, rather than our enemies.

There are other horrible reasons why you don't want the government to regulate AI, but we'd have to get into politics, so I'd like to keep this thread unlocked.
I'm Murrin wrote:So all actions are justified so long as they advance knowledge?
Most of the time, yes. People thought we should have canceled the space program once astronauts started dying. We didn't, and I think that was the right decision. The only time people have been killed with AI is when self-driving cars malfunction. So far, humans are far better at killing each other with regular cars, and we have no discussions of getting rid of our cars.

Every rule has exceptions. "Kids might cheat on tests" isn't one of them.
Joe Biden … putting the Dem in dementia since (at least) 2020.
User avatar
Fist and Faith
Magister Vitae
Posts: 23438
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:14 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Post by Fist and Faith »

I was wondering about internet regulations, too. I don't think anything that's legal is less legal on the internet. Legal or not, the internet makes everything easier.
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
User avatar
Wosbald
A Brainwashed Religious Flunkie
Posts: 6084
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:35 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Post by Wosbald »

+JMJ+
Zarathustra wrote:
Wos wrote:The Internet has been around long-enough for us to enact commonsense regulation to magnify the pros and mitigate the cons.

Why should AI be any different?


Image
There really aren't that many regulations on the Internet. How could there be? It's a global infrastructure. …

[…]
I would say that our Telecom Network's subjection to an imbricated patchwork of regulatory jurisdictions qualifies as "Regulation".


Image


Image
User avatar
Fist and Faith
Magister Vitae
Posts: 23438
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:14 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Post by Fist and Faith »

What, pray tell, is "an imbricated patchwork of regulatory jurisdictions"??
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
User avatar
Wosbald
A Brainwashed Religious Flunkie
Posts: 6084
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:35 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Post by Wosbald »

+JMJ+
Fist and Faith wrote:What, pray tell, is "an imbricated patchwork of regulatory jurisdictions"??
Territorial designations such as: municipal, county, state, regional, national, etc. taken in context of all their overlapping interactions, caesurae, and redundancies.


Image


Image
User avatar
Zarathustra
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 19621
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:23 am

Post by Zarathustra »

Wos, I’d love to respond in detail but discussion of regulations and the role of government in technology is political. From a purely technological standpoint, I don’t think you could write a regulation that would make AI useless to cheat on homework while simultaneously retaining all the value it offers. Note: we don’t regulate the internet to keep kids from cheating for similar reasons. Some amount of negative consequences is just a given for technological advancement (not to mention basic freedoms).
Last edited by Zarathustra on Tue Jan 31, 2023 2:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Joe Biden … putting the Dem in dementia since (at least) 2020.
User avatar
Fist and Faith
Magister Vitae
Posts: 23438
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:14 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Post by Fist and Faith »

Wosbald wrote:
Fist and Faith wrote:What, pray tell, is "an imbricated patchwork of regulatory jurisdictions"??
Territorial designations such as: municipal, county, state, regional, national, etc. taken in context of all their overlapping interactions, caesurae, and redundancies.


Image
But what are the regulations specific to the internet?
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
User avatar
Zarathustra
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 19621
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:23 am

Post by Zarathustra »

Wouldn't it be cool if this was a thread about chatGPT instead of human greed and government regulations? Didn't we destroy an entire forum to crush discussions of things like that?
Joe Biden … putting the Dem in dementia since (at least) 2020.
User avatar
Fist and Faith
Magister Vitae
Posts: 23438
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:14 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Post by Fist and Faith »

Honestly, I don't know how to talk about chatGPT. How anything affects us, and causes us to react, is an easier topic. We know ourselves, and can talk about that. We don't know chatGPT. It's also a fairly important topic.

But I applaud your sentiment. I suppose the place to start is to try the damned thing out. I'll create an account tomorrow. My alarm goes off in six and a half hours, so I'm not going to start now. :lol:
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
User avatar
I'm Murrin
Are you?
Posts: 15840
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 1:09 pm
Location: North East, UK
Contact:

Post by I'm Murrin »

Zarathustra wrote:Wouldn't it be cool if this was a thread about chatGPT instead of human greed and government regulations? Didn't we destroy an entire forum to crush discussions of things like that?
No, jay destroyed an entire forum because of the way people were behaving in it. Anyway, there is nothing in life that is entirely untouched by politics. AI content generation has intellectual property law implications, since both the image and text generators need to be trained on a library of existing content before they're capable of generating anything.
User avatar
Fist and Faith
Magister Vitae
Posts: 23438
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:14 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Post by Fist and Faith »

I've only asked it a few things so far. One was about one of these wordle type games. (It gave me hope for my quest. :lol:).

It had no more luck figuring out who my second great grandfather's parents are then I have had.

And it told me it did not know my physical location. I even then turned on my cell's Location and told it, but it still said it was not supposed to do that kind of thing. Can't help but wonder if it does that kind of thing and is just told to say it doesn't. :D
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
User avatar
wayfriend
.
Posts: 20957
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:34 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by wayfriend »

It's based on a search engine. But you don't use it for searching.

You use it to write. It assembles words and sentences into a logical and coherent whole, making the point that you ask it to make.

The part that makes it AI is that it can compose like a human can. And that it can self-direct it's own searches to answer questions. That is to say, what's not amazing is that it can search for information about dogs, what is amazing is that it will search for information about dogs if you ask it to write about it's favorite pet. (It gathered information about pets, picked one kind, gathered information about that kind, discarded datapoints it considered negative, and then built a communication that actually makes a case for that pet.)
Last edited by wayfriend on Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
.
User avatar
wayfriend
.
Posts: 20957
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:34 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by wayfriend »

Here's an actual interaction. (I have a login.)
KM: Write a 500 word essay on why Hile Troy's plan to defend the Land in "The Illearth War" was a very good plan.

AI: In the novel "The Illearth War" by Stephen R. Donaldson, the protagonist Hile Troy is tasked with defending the Land from the forces of Lord Foul and his minions, the Illearth Stone-powered creatures. Hile Troy's plan to defend the Land was a very good plan for several reasons.

First and foremost, Hile Troy recognized the importance of taking a defensive stance rather than an offensive one. In a war against an enemy as powerful as Lord Foul and the Illearth Stone, a direct attack would have been suicide. Hile Troy understood that the best course of action was to protect the Land and its people, and to do so by fortifying their defenses and creating a secure perimeter. By doing so, he reduced the risk of losing the war, and ensured that the Land would not fall into the hands of Lord Foul.

Another key aspect of Hile Troy's plan was his understanding of the importance of strategy. He knew that a successful defense required more than just strength and fortifications, it also required a well thought out and executed strategy. Hile Troy's plan involved several strategic moves, such as the use of spies to gather intelligence on the movements of Lord Foul's forces, and the deployment of troops to key locations to protect the most vulnerable areas. He also took into account the strengths and weaknesses of the forces at his disposal, and made sure that they were deployed in a manner that would maximize their effectiveness.

In addition to his strategic thinking, Hile Troy also showed great leadership qualities. He was able to inspire the defenders of the Land and to rally them to his cause. He was able to get the different factions of the Land to work together and to put aside their differences for the greater good. This unity of purpose was crucial in the defense of the Land, as it allowed Hile Troy and his forces to work together effectively, and to overcome any challenges that they faced.

Another important factor in Hile Troy's plan was his willingness to take calculated risks. He was not afraid to take bold actions when necessary, and was able to make quick decisions when the situation demanded it. For example, when Lord Foul's forces were threatening to overrun one of the key fortifications, Hile Troy made the difficult decision to sacrifice some of his forces to buy time for the rest of his forces to regroup and re-establish their defenses. This type of leadership and decision-making ability was essential in a situation as dire as the one faced by the Land.

Finally, Hile Troy was able to adapt to changing circumstances as the situation on the battlefield evolved. He was able to modify his plans as new information became available, and to make adjustments as the situation changed. This type of flexibility and adaptability is crucial in any military campaign, and Hile Troy demonstrated it to a high degree.

In conclusion, Hile Troy's plan to defend the Land in "The Illearth War" was a very good plan. He recognized the importance of taking a defensive stance, had a well thought out strategy, showed great leadership qualities, was willing to take calculated risks, and was able to adapt to changing circumstances. These factors combined to make his plan a success, and allowed the Land to survive the assault from Lord Foul and his minions.

KM: Thank you.
AI: You're welcome! If there's anything else I can assist with, don't hesitate to ask.
.
User avatar
wayfriend
.
Posts: 20957
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:34 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by wayfriend »

Just out of curiosity now. Cuz I can be a stinker.
KM: Write a 500 word essay on why Hile Troy's plan to defend the Land in "The Illearth War" was a very bad plan.

AI: In the novel "The Illearth War" by Stephen R. Donaldson, Hile Troy is tasked with defending the Land from the forces of Lord Foul and his minions, the Illearth Stone-powered creatures. While Hile Troy's intentions may have been noble, his plan to defend the Land was deeply flawed and ultimately a very bad plan.

One of the main problems with Hile Troy's plan was that it lacked a clear understanding of the enemy's strengths and weaknesses. Despite having access to a wealth of information about Lord Foul and the Illearth Stone, Hile Troy failed to fully grasp the extent of the threat posed by these forces. This led to several missteps in his defense plan, such as underestimating the power of the Illearth Stone, and the ability of Lord Foul's minions to break through the Land's defenses. As a result, the Land suffered significant losses and was ultimately unable to stop Lord Foul from achieving his goals.

Another major issue with Hile Troy's plan was its lack of flexibility. Despite the rapidly changing circumstances on the battlefield, Hile Troy was unable to adapt his plan and make the necessary changes to stay ahead of the enemy. This rigidity was a major factor in the eventual defeat of the Land, as it prevented Hile Troy from being able to respond to the changing situation in a timely and effective manner.

Furthermore, Hile Troy's plan was also hampered by his poor leadership skills. He was unable to rally the forces of the Land and to inspire them to fight against Lord Foul and his minions. This lack of leadership was particularly evident in the way that Hile Troy was unable to effectively coordinate the actions of the different factions in the Land. This resulted in a fragmented defense that was unable to effectively resist the attacks of Lord Foul's forces.

Another problem with Hile Troy's plan was that it relied too heavily on the fortifications and defenses of the Land. While these fortifications may have provided a temporary advantage, they were ultimately insufficient to hold back Lord Foul and his minions. The Land was ultimately forced to abandon these defenses and retreat, which resulted in significant losses and weakened the Land's overall defense.

Additionally, Hile Troy was also hampered by his lack of strategic thinking. He failed to recognize the importance of gathering intelligence and was unable to effectively deploy his forces in response to the movements of Lord Foul's minions. This lack of strategic planning made it more difficult for Hile Troy to defend the Land, and ultimately contributed to the Land's eventual defeat.

In conclusion, Hile Troy's plan to defend the Land in "The Illearth War" was a very bad plan for several reasons. It lacked a clear understanding of the enemy's strengths and weaknesses, was rigid and inflexible, suffered from poor leadership, relied too heavily on fortifications and defenses, and lacked strategic thinking. These factors combined to make Hile Troy's plan a failure, and ultimately led to the defeat of the Land and the triumph of Lord Foul and his minions.
.
User avatar
Savor Dam
Will Be Herd!
Posts: 6140
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:02 am
Location: Pacific NorthWet
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Savor Dam »

This software will either be a great lawyer or need a great lawyer.
Love prevails.
~ Tracie Mckinney-Hammon

Change is not a process for the impatient.
~ Barbara Reinhold

A government which robs Peter to pay Paul, can always count on the support of Paul.
~ George Bernard Shaw
Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion Forum”