What happened to Hile Troy's Think Tank?

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kevinswatch
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Post by kevinswatch »

kevinswatch wrote:And you all really wonder why I deleted the Tank. :haha: :haha: :haha:

-jay
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Post by Zarathustra »

It's ironic that the thread everyone was worried about--the Current Events thread where we're discussing politics--isn't the least bit tense or uncivil. We're disagreeing with each other, but the thread is tame.

I think the blame game is the problem.
Fist and Faith wrote:'Catholics are servants of Lucifer who are leading people into "a woke world of lies"' is the problem.
If you can explain why in terms of rational criteria, I'd love to understand. All I've heard is "it's an insult," without anyone saying why. What if that was my earnest religious belief? There are millions of people who would agree with that statement. You're saying that some beliefs can't be expressed simply because people with different beliefs don't want them to be expressed. That's not a rational reason. It's purely emotional.

I appreciate HLT's points about phrasing things in a neutral manner. But if I were a fundamentalist Christian protestant who genuinely believed that Catholicism is a satanic trick to lead people away from protestantism I would have no voice on the Watch because we've declared that belief unspeakable. Why can't Catholics be satisfied with saying, "We disagree and think you're misguided?" It's so easy.

One more hypothetical:

Would a Muslim be allowed to join the Watch and express his heartfelt religious belief that America was the Great Satan? Or would we shut that down and tell him it's too offensive to Americans? Wouldn't that be Islamophobic if everyone else could speak their mind but he could not? Surely the parallels are obvious.
Last edited by Zarathustra on Tue Feb 28, 2023 5:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Fist and Faith »

We're getting along swimming.
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
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Post by Zarathustra »

Fist, see my edit above. I think you posted while I was making it.

I propose a truce. I will agree that saying "Catholicism is evil and/or Satanic" is out of bounds if everyone else else involved will agree that this is just as bad as reflexively calling me a racist, or calling Republicans fascists, or accusing conservatives of white nationalism. If Wayfriend and Wos will admit they were wrong for doing these things, I'll agree that your quoted sentence above should not be said.

Let's see if the truce will be accepted, or if the other side merely wants to silence me.
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Post by wayfriend »

Zarathustra wrote:If Wayfriend and Wos will admit they were wrong for doing these things, I'll agree that your quoted sentence above should not be said.
I call Blatant Evil here.

Wos and I never, ever, ever proposed that calling you a racist was "okay" in the new forum. (Nor in the old.)

Your pulling us into your argument needlessly just to have an excuse to say something about us. Your making blatantly false allegations, disguised with blatantly straw strawman arguments, just for an opportunity for a personal attack.

I cannot believe someone so underhanded and mean could convince the moderator to support you in anything.

- - - - - - - -

So far your "discussion" thread has had no discussion. It consists of directing people's attention to issues that favor conservatives, putting out disinformation about those issues that favor conservatives, and conservatives high-fiving each other for being so brilliant for doing the above.

It's not a "discussion", its an excuse to push propaganda. Since you went there as soon as effing possible, I assume that that was your goal.
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Post by Fist and Faith »

Z, I did, indeed, post between you.

The second rule in the first post of the Current Events thread is about generalizations. "Catholics are servants of Lucifer" is a generalization about Catholics. That almost certainly would include participants of this discussion. Possibly more than we're aware of. Others might be reading, but not participating, and deciding not to participate when they read that kind of thing. There are probably a good many Catholics who are not servants of Lucifer. (Assuming, for the sake of argument, that Lucifer exists.) There might be some who speak out against the child predators.

What you say about Catholicism is another matter. That's your business. And anybody is free to try to convince you otherwise. (Although that would not likely be a discussion for the Current Events thread.)

My advice to anyone who wants the Current Events thread to go on is to stop worrying about anything anyone ever said before. Let go of the need to have anyone admit they are wrong. Do not rise to any bait. Stop bothering with this thread. It will accomplish nothing. Just participate in the Current Events thread. We will likely run into kinks now and then, and we'll work them out.
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Post by SoulBiter »

I for one am glad to see that the new thread has been tame and I hope that it continues to be. The blame game and the name calling is just not necessary to have a discussion about current events or fairly current.

I would welcome anyone that wishes to come there and articulate an opposing or even corrective view to come there and do so. Just make sure that in doing so that old grudges are left behind and the discussion remains civil. The rules are indeed the very first post.
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Post by Zarathustra »

WF, I'm done.

You're welcome to tell us your position on Ukraine in the Current Events thread. Since there are conservatives on either side of the issue, there is plenty of room for agreement and disagreement, without the fear of being contradicted merely because of your political alignment.

Come join us.
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Post by wayfriend »

Zarathustra: bashes wayfriend
Wayfriend: you're bashing me!
Soulbiter: now, now, let's not worry about who bashed who.
Zarathustra: you're impossible, wayfriend!

I mean, WTF.

Anyway, I am still waiting to see if anything actually gets discussed.
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Post by SoulBiter »

Plenty of things to discuss. Come on down.
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Post by kevinswatch »

I agree with wf. The new current events topic seems to be full of all of the same shit that I hated about the Tank. So I'll just avoid it. I'll let you all have your little topic for now.

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Post by Zarathustra »

kevinswatch wrote:I agree with wf. The new current events topic seems to be full of all of the same shit that I hated about the Tank. So I'll just avoid it. I'll let you all have your little topic for now.

-jay
I thought it was the incivility and petty bickering you didn't like. No one is doing that there. Are you saying that "the same shit" is just conservative content?
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Post by kevinswatch »

The incivility and petty bickering is why I deleted the Tank. The other shit is why I avoided it for so many years.

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Post by Fist and Faith »

It's not the fault of the conservatives that nobody else wants to join in. It doesn't have to be a thread for conservatives. It can be as liberal as anyone wants to make it.
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Post by Zarathustra »

The two main issues I've brought up is the world being on the brink of WWIII and what lessons we can learn from having endured a global pandemic. These are issues that affect every human on earth. I can understand not wanting to debate politics, but I don't understand calling these life-and-death issues "shit" or "propaganda," even if you and WF disagree with a particular person's take on them. I can't think of more important issues to discuss, frankly.
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Post by I'm Murrin »

The below is from a single post. I'm doing this not to say I disbelieve every claim here but to highlight just how many claims one would have to either accept or refute in order to effectively respond to such a post, which was presumably thrown out a lot faster than the time it would take to respond to this many claims if one disagreed with it:
Zarathustra wrote:Well, a new classified report from the Department of Energy acknowledges that Covid likely came from a lab leak in Wuhan.
Citation needed.
That makes two government agencies which have acknowledged what we all suspected (FBI being the 1st).
Citation needed.
Given the Twitter email releases, we now know that the FBI was colluding with Twitter to silence people--including medical doctors--who questioned the official government position on Covid vaccines, masking, etc.
Citation needed.
[not to mention how the FBI interfered in the 2020 election to silence free speech about the Hunter laptop.]
Citation needed.
2. Masks don't work to stop respiratory viruses.
Citation needed.
3. Social distancing doesn't work.
Citation needed.
4. Hiding indoors doesn't work; in fact, it deprived us of fresh air and sunshine which would have helped.
Citation needed.
5. Vaccines didn't work; they didn't stop the spread of the virus because they don't keep you from getting it or passing it to others. It's questionable whether they provide any protection beyond what natural immune system response would provide.
Citation needed.
6. School children were the least likely to suffer from Covid
Citation needed.
..."vaccine" [..] had less testing than any drug in our history.
Citation needed.
The more left-leaning the state, the more mandates.
Citation needed.
But the mandates didn't work, they only made things worse.
Citation needed.
And the Biden administration was trying to extend these mandates exponentially through OSHA to include most people in America, so that you couldn't get a freakin' job without taking this experimental, ineffective "vaccine."
Citation needed.

This is the kind of thing that makes people just not bother engaging.
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Post by Zarathustra »

I didn't provide links because those are things I can name off the top of my head. Honestly, they should be common knowledge by now, if everyone was paying attention (except for the report from the Department of Energy, which was breaking news). Number 4, for instance, merely refers to the fact that exposure to sunshine produces vitamin D which supports our immune system. Every single one is a fact and I'll provide links tomorrow.

I'm not sure it will make a difference, however.
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Post by Savor Dam »

I agree that the topics are important, but no longer feel enough urgency to engage in refuting what I consider obvious misinformation.

For example, on the topic of the pandemic response, assertions than masking doesn't work against respiratory viri, that social distancing does not work, that vaccines do not work. All of these are false.

Dam-sel, Dam-et, and Menolly are all cancer survivors (Menolly three-times-over...and she prefers "thriver." That is so her!) In the last almost-four decades, I've both dealt with their treatment, and separately had a career that included a stint in a director-level position at a healthcare facility and over a decade with NASA. I'm not a doctor (nor do I play one on television), but I have a firm grounding in both the science and the practical application of how airborne and surface pathogens spread.

Masks work. They are not perfect, but they markedly reduce spread. Same for keeping a personal-space perimeter, hand-washing/sanitizing, etc. If we did not know that before, it got deeply impressed on all of us in various cancer wards long before the current pandemic.

Vaccines are a more complicated issue, but to say that they didn't work, that they do not reduce the spread of infection, is false.

Yet, these assertions appear now in Current Events, as they did in the Tank of old. I haven't the energy to swat this stuff down all the time...and deal with the inevitable pushback. Let Darwin sort it out.

Meanwhile, I and mine continue to do what is necessary to protect our immunocompromised circle.
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Post by Fist and Faith »

People who have a different view of things don't want to post for various reasons. Well and good. But nobody who has a different view of things and will not join the discussion should complain that it's not a discussion because only one side is represented. Nobody is required to discuss these things in the ways they have been presented so far. Not every point need be addressed, because you may not think x or y are worth discussing. And there are no requirements for how a point must be discussed.

There are also plenty of other topics that could be brought up by anyone of any political leaning.
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Post by SoulBiter »

Fist and Faith wrote:People who have a different view of things don't want to post for various reasons. Well and good. But nobody who has a different view of things and will not join the discussion should complain that it's not a discussion because only one side is represented. Nobody is required to discuss these things in the ways they have been presented so far. Not every point need be addressed, because you may not think x or y are worth discussing. And there are no requirements for how a point must be discussed.

There are also plenty of other topics that could be brought up by anyone of any political leaning.
Spot on!
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