Let's try to make a map! MN's Geography

[danlo]

On page 81 of TMOHD (in the Del Rey paperback, or near the beginning of Chapt. 6, A Few Lessons) Master Quillion begins telling Terisa about Mordant's history and how young a "kingdom" it really is (something like 30 years old). I get sorta turned around, and we really don't know where anything is in relation to another, but I fancy Alend to be on the left, or, let's say, west of Mordant and Cadwal to the east. Apparently: "Alend and Cadwal are actually contiguous along the last eighty miles or so of the Swoll River, but that area is impassable, a swamp to the sea and along the coast---"

Alend and Cadwal can only approach each other through Mordant. Alend is mountainous and Cadwal dry-so heck Alend may be north and Cadwal south for all I know...a little later on in TMOHD the location of Modant's Cares are laid out in relation to Orison-and during Terisas travels in AMRT the Care's descriptions and realtion to Alend and Cadwal are fleshed out. It appears that Termigan and Domne are close to Alend (and for what I remember Fayle was a fairly rugged land too) Tor and Perdon are situtated closer to Cadwal. Mordant, looked at altogether, is described on "...a fertile lowland between the Pestil and Vertigon rivers."

Hopefully this thread can become an ongoing project and we can eventually come up with something that makes sense. Then someone can attemp to make some kinda map. Mayb that's one of the questions I should ask SRD at Elohimfest: "Would Alend be north, east or west of Mordant?"

**********WATCH OUT SOME SPOILERS MAY APPEAR**********

[danlo]

Orison and the land that surrounds it are refered to as the Demense (so b4 he became king, I guess, Joyse was refered to as The Demense. The Demense is smallest land in area with Domne being the second smallest.

Tor "...being situated with the mountians at at it's back and Perdon, Armigite Domne and Termigan around it...". Perdon shares a long border with Cadwal along the Vertigon.

I'm also trying to compile names of cities, seats and towns, and so far have:
seats
Orison (Demense)
Houseldon (Domne)
Sternwall (Termigan)
Romish (Fayle)
Batten (Armigrite)
Marshalt (Tor)
Scarping (Perdon)

locations
Esmerel (Tor)
The Closed Fist (Domne)
Rostrum (Termigan very close to southern Amigite border)
Kelendumble (peak in Domne's southern mt. range)
Pestil's Mouth (offshoot of the Pestil that forms N. Termigan/Tor border)
Aperyte & Naybel (Fayle, two villages north towards Romish)
Vale Manor (Fayle, just outside Romish on the Knolted River)

Capital of Cadwal: Carmag----located on the sea
Capital of Alend: Scarab

[dANdeLION]

I think somebody might be able to figure out relative distances to the Cares based on how long it took Teresa and Geraden to ride to them. Also, the army marched to Esmerel, so that could be calculated based on their march. Now, if we only had directions...I would be willing to draw said map once we get the details. But I'm not gonna make a Fonsted book; that's a little too much for me!

[danlo]

Ok conculsive evidence on where Alend and Cadwal lie in relation to Mordant: Cadwal-east, Alend-north and west.

[Torrent]

Tor - Marshalt

[danlo]

Cool--that's the seat right--I'll add that--I just found a few more^

[aTOMiC]

I've uploaded the map dAN made for my book. I think he'd do a great job with a MN layout.

kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/album_view.php?id=252

[duchess of malfi]

Oh, that is wonderful! He WOULD do a great job!

[danlo]

Cool then I'll upload my raw map when I get it done--I've got a petty good map going for the "continent" right now but I'm confused on some things:

I know that Amigrite lies to the NW of Demense (Orison), Perdon lies to the NE and Tor lies to the south. I assume Domne is north of Demense and I'm pretty sure Temigan is in the SE. The books say that the Broadwine River goes north through The Closed Fist (in Domne) then bends NE splitting Perdon into north and south to finally meet up with the Veritgon River (the border of Modant and Cadwal). If Termigan lies to the SE then part of it must be on the Vertigon as well (I think). Then it says that the Broadwine travels south splitting Tor from Amigrite and Termigan.

So:
*Where is Fayle in all this?
*If Tor is to the south and it's seat is Marshhalt-am I to assume that it's situated above the Great Swamp and that's why Marsh-halt it called what it's called?
*If the Swoll River is there-cutting the Swamp in half--does it then mean that Tor is essentianly inbetween the Broadwine and the Swoll, with the Marsh to the south?
*Or do the Broadwine, Pestil and Vertigon all meet below Tor forming the Swoll, which then flows through the MARSH, eighty miles to the sea?
*If Tor "...being situated with the mountians at at it's back and Perdon, Armigite, Domne and Termigan around it...". does that mean Demense is lower south than I think it is and it's SW borders abut both Amigite and Tor-if this is so then it must mean that both Amigite and Termigan do not border Demense?
* Is Domne more NW instead of north in order for it to meet up w/Tor?

I'm only half way though the 1st book in doing an exact-page by page reckoning--I know alot of "the lay of the land" is cleared up in the 2nd. But if any1 knows right now where Fayle is in all this and how the Cares actually boarder Demense--it would really help-how the Continent/Alend/Cadwal/Mordant the Vertigon and the Pestil look is cool--but the Broadwine/Swoll and exact layout of the Cares is still fuzzy.

if you want some distances to start working with-It is said that Scarab is 30 days from Orison and Sternwall is 10 days ride...

[Torrent]

Why don't you ask SRD to bring one of his own drawings to the Elohimfest?
He must have put the raw outlines on paper when he wrote the book. Maybe he has kept something.

I have a presumption why he didn't add a map. I think he wanted us to be just as confused as Terisa was. It adds to the atmosphere. If you have a map you tend to think too much in 'borders' and graphic outlines - it gets more abstract. If you don't have a map you concentrate more on what Terisa sees/hears.

[danlo]

I agree with all u've said Torrent! And I'll ask him to bring whatever drawings he has. I think it would be fun to comsare what the readers think to those--Even tho I have an outline of the continent-and want to get feedback on that-I eventually want to spill some wine on a blank white sheet of paper, flod it in 1/2 and readapt the continent to that--that's much how much I agree w/u about the confusing and arbitrarianistick (hey I made up a word!)

[danlo]

My map so far:
Well based on the info given in the 1st book--and this new quote-Amigrite is bordered on the east by Perdon, on the west by Fayle and Termigan and on the north by Alend this is sota what it looks like. (I'll try to take a photo and upload it to the Gallery soon..)- Demense is kinda diamond shaped and in the south-center, Domne roughly wraps around it from the south to NE, Perdon wraps around Domne and is 2 to three times bigger-touching Tor to the south and Amigrite to the NW-it is Mordant's majority border to Cadwal (along the Vertigon) with Tor and the Great Swamp bordering it in the SE.

Amigrite abuts Perdon, NW Domne, Demense and the northern "peninsula" of Tor like a backwards "C"-the upper end up the "C" borders Termigan. Termigan is shaped like a regular "C" so that the ends of it's "C" match up with both ends of Amigrite. Fayle is roughly circular and forms the center of both ""C"s. The NW border of Tor is along the meeting of the lower "C"s. The majority of the western border of Mordant and Alend is Termigan (along the Pestil), but Tor and the Great Swamp border it SW. Amigrite borders Alend to the North and tho most of Mordant's northern border is mountianous there is a very large gap (about 1/2 of the border) open to Alend and Scarab to the NE. There are large mountian ranges on either side of middle of Tor's southern border wher the Swoll and the Broadwine connect before running into the Great Swamp below.

I know it's hard to visualize-and it may easily change after I scan book II--but that's what I've got so far...

edit (1-31): Well I thought I was done with the scan of TMOHDs! But thanks to a tiny reference at the very end of the book about fine wines from Rostrum located near the Termigan/Domne border I need to move Domne west of Demense and eliminate most of the northern Tor "penisula". Now I'm confused as to where Demense is in relation to all this. Egads, SRD is making me nuts! I'm sure AMRT will drive me further over the edge...

edit (2-2) 300 pages into AMRT. Ay it's beginning to make sense! Domne hass moved further west and is surrounded by Temigan and Tor. Demense is futher east and is" tucked in to" Perdon with Amigrite to the west and north and the tip of Tor to the south. Houseldon needs to be in the central SE of Domne, Sternwall is due N/NW of central Domne and Romish is situated near the southeast point of the Care of Fayle where the border between Fayle and Armigrite meet the boarder between Temigan and Fayle. Pestil's Mouth is and offshoot off the Pestil which should run along the northern Domne/Termigan border rising slightly NE forming most of the northern Temigan/Tor border.

[duchess of malfi]

Danlo, are you looking for quotes/descriptions of these places, or would you rather we post such things in the cares/caretakers thread?

[danlo]

No, here I'm looking specific locations and the lay of the land--Mts., rivers, borders, placenames etc...I think I've got most of them now--my crude map is done and I'm going to take a photo of it in put it in the Gallery-then we can comment on it here and once it's refined maybe dAN and draw a final map. I do want the descriptions in the Cares thread...

[duchess of malfi]

Perdon is apparently divided into a North Perdon and a South Perdon. To get to Orison from Cadwal you would march up through Perdon from the southeast.
To get from Alend to Orison you would come almost due south through Armigite.
It is said that the Alend invasion route so described is twice as far as the Cadwal one. But the Cadwals would have to cross the rugged hills of South Perdon, and two large rivers, the Vertigon and the Broadwine.
The Alends would only have to cross one large river, the Pestil, and Armigite is nearly all lowland...

[danlo]

Yes I've got all that on my map--the Broadwine divides Perdon into north and south--and I have Carmag situated on the sea to the SE--I made Amigrite a little mountianous to the very north but made a huge pass where Alends can easily invade

[danlo]

See new link on page 2 I realize the map is not great quality but you can sort of see where the seats are, The border of Fayle is green, Armigrite red, Perdon brown, Demense purple, Domne blue, Termigan is gold (to the west, or left) and Tor is pinkish-red. Yellow is Cadwal, gray is Alend and the orange crosshatch below Tor, where all the rivers empty is the Great Swamp. Any other questions ask here.

[Revan]

Good... but I can't get my computer to fully focus it

Life's a bitch, and so's this computer.

[danlo]

It's not your comp it's the stupid disposo-camera I used-that's what I get for selling my Pentax 2 months ago-sorry about that. Now a digital camera would have brought it all out--but I can't afford that yet. The fuzzy area above the gray blob (that's trying to say Alend) is Scarab.

[aTOMiC]

From what I can tell from your photo you seem to have done a very good job on the map. If the map is too big for a standard scanner you might try scanning it in sections and re assembling it in a photoshop program. In any case, nice job.