I never threw the book. I'm not a thrower by nature. But, then again, I didn't read this passage and become astoundingly offended. I think this is a reflection of what reading I had already done before I read the LFB - if I had only lived on light fantasy fare, I could see how this might be shocking. But I had already read, say, Dhalgren. I'm not saying that I'm into festishist material (I'm not) nor am I inured to pain and violence (I almost choked on Forbidden Knowledge). I would say, though, that I was prepared to encounter 'bad' characters with an open mind, and was willing to suspend judgement. And this wasn't the worst thing a supposedly sympathetic character had done in the scope of my experiences.
Really? I would not go even close to that far.FizbansTalking_Hat wrote:Why does Covenant rape Lena?... Maybe all the build up hate that he's been feeling for himself, the world, the people around him and his town who despise him, because of that hate, he felt compelled to imflict the same style of hate on someone else, someone pure, virginal, happy, he wanted to inflict the same pain he's recieved on someone who was like him. ...
Hormones are a powerful thing. Their sudden reassertion would be overwhelming, especially when you don't see it coming. It takes away reason and judgement. Imagine going from 6 years old to 18 in an instant, from a physiological, not intellectual, point of view. Bam!
If you need more of an excuse to that, consider, then, Covenant's absolute need to have it be a dream. It didn't feel like a dream. But it had to be, or else he was crazy. I'm not saying that rape becomes okay in a dream. I'm saying that when you feel like your sanity is shredding, and you cannot trust your mind or your senses, you're not running on all cylinders. Your not ready to handle that rush of male hormones; your already askew.
Pile on that the pressure of being a savior. This was telegraphed by Donaldson very effectively in the previous pages. On top of intellectual insanity and hormonal insanity, there's feelings of being manipulated and pressured and unknowns all around.
It doesn't have to be about, "I'm dreaming so I can rape someone". It can be about "I'm all screwed up and this girl is trigging things I cannot control in this state".
I really do not think that Covenant is trying to pay anyone back. He's not trying to hate anyone for how someone hated him. At the most, what we have is a man whose driven to the edge by, in part, Lena's willingness to treat him as hero, and allow him anything he wants. In a way, he has power over this girl. So in his anger he puts this power on and tries it out for size. "Oh yeah, am I great now?!?! Huh?!?!"
He doesn't want to be a hero. So in his passion he acts the scoundrel. It's an act of rebellion against a Land he doesn't want.
Okay, you obviously have not read further at this time, and so you don't know the significant elements of the plot that descened from this moment. And there are many. In fact, almost all of them.FizbansTalking_Hat wrote:Why does Covenant have to rape Lena?
I think that in terms of story, this is necessary b/c it lets us all know at the begining that this man is flawed, he has issues, he's not a regular hero, he's just a man, trying to keep on going, to get to the end, whatever that end may be ...
Yes, Covenant is a regular guy struggling to not be made into a hero.
This is a story about a character who grows, and whose choices as he's growing affect a world. It's specifically and intentionally not about people with typical heroic responses. It's about people who respond from pain and guilt and memory and fear, and hope and kindness and love and respect - in other words, deep characters - and figure out how to make the right choices anyway.
So Covenant has to rape Lena because Covenant has to go be changed by having done it.
Nah. It's because you were sucker-punched!FizbansTalking_Hat wrote:Why does this frustrate so many people, to the point where they throw the book across the room and never come back? (And the corollary: Why did we all stick it out?)
I think the reason that most people throw the book, set it down, whatever they do to kind of get away from this scene is b/c its so vivid ...
There're a lot of shallow, violent gore-fests out there. There're stories where bad things people do are described in great detail. No one throws them across the room.
You had only read stories where it's safe to get behind the protagonist and empathise with their point of view, because the payback is only good clean fun. So you walked behind Covenant with your chin sticking out and your eyes in the sky - you weren't prepared for the protagonist lead you over a cliff.
Donaldson writes a tough story. It's not candy. Covenant is going to make choices that come from who he is, and what he's about, and not what's convenient for the adventure. He doesn't say "I will take the ring", he says "@*#& off and solve your own @#^& problems!". And the payback comes from his not keeping this point of view forever.
Yes, but there's more.FizbansTalking_Hat wrote:And why, oh, why, once Atiaran finds out what Covenant has done to his daughter, why does she not just let Triock kill him?
I think thats an easy answer, she doesn't allow his death b/c it would nullify the sacrifice that Lena has made for the greater good. Though Atiaran has so much hate for this man who has taken something pure and destroyed that, she feels she must continue the quest for the greater good, the land as a whole needs healing, and she doesn't yet know his true purpose, all she knows is that she's been given the task of taking him forward as far as she can.
She's wise and she's humble. She knows it's not her call to make. So she doesn't punish him, but she makes dang sure that he gets to the Lords - whose job it is.
And she's of the Land. She's been to Revelstone. She's been taught down into her bones that an emotional response is a bad choice. She remember's that the greatest warrior doesn't have to kill.
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Hope you didn't mind my reply. It's not specifically to you, just a way to frame an alternate pov.