What were they thinking? The character's perspective

A place to discuss the books in the FC and SC. *Please Note* No LC spoilers allowed in this forum. Do so in the forum below.

Moderators: kevinswatch, Orlion

User avatar
aTOMiC
Lord
Posts: 24594
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:48 am
Location: Tampa, Florida
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 7 times
Contact:

What were they thinking? The character's perspective

Post by aTOMiC »

One of the most effective tools SRD uses in TCTC is his shifting of POV from one character to another. From a particular character's point of view, we are exposed to his or her thoughts and feelings. Internal processes that are otherwise less clear to the reader.

Aside from TC, Linden, Hile Troy, Mhoram and perhaps few others, what characters in the chronicles would you like to have known what they were thinking? Would it be cool to really get into Lord Foul's head and get his perspective on what transpired? Drool? An Ur-Vile or Cavewight?

"Lord Foul strode into the massive hall eyeing the craven beings that comprised the group that silently waited for his arrival. Gibbon stood alone a few feet away from the others, his bald head was bowed and glistened with beads of sweat in the torchlight. Foul sensed the fear and loathing that radiated from the gathering and was pleased. He deliberately stretched out the aura of his power as he moved so that each creature was bathed in the icy force of his presence.
“You have summoned us, Master?” Gibbon’s voice wavered as the Raver’s composure was shaken. He slowly raised his head but could not bring himself to meet the Dark Lord’s gaze.
Foul paused, savoring the moment. He had withheld his wrath long enough. The time had finally come to reveal his plans for Gibbon and his followers. The idea of what he meant to do secretly thrilled Foul. The anticipation of the coming slaughter was almost too much to bear. "
Last edited by aTOMiC on Fri Mar 05, 2004 9:23 pm, edited 5 times in total.
"If you can't tell the difference, what difference does it make?"
Image

"There is tic and toc in atomic" - Neil Peart
User avatar
dlbpharmd
Lord
Posts: 14460
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 9:27 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Post by dlbpharmd »

I'm not sure I would enjoy Drool's perspective - "Crush! Crush!"

The characters that I would most enjoy learning more about would be Bannor and Cail.
User avatar
danlo
Lord
Posts: 20838
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2002 8:29 pm
Location: Albuquerque NM
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Post by danlo »

Sunder--his reaction to the lies he's been given--thoughts on Linden, TC, Vain, Hollian, Haruchai, the Clave...etc...
Last edited by danlo on Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
fall far and well Pilots!
User avatar
Durris
Giantfriend
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 6:21 pm
Location: Hamden, CT, USA

Post by Durris »

dllbpharmd wrote:
The characters that I would most enjoy learning more about would be Bannor and Cail.
8) I second that.

I'd also be interested in hearing Tull's thoughts. Even when he is briefly the de facto narrator, he (particularly his internal experience, as opposed to actions) is less "present" in the story than other characters. Even among his own compatriots he's mostly eclipsed by his elders.

Memla goes through a transition of world view similar to Sunder's in much less time than he took. The voltage on hers would have been much increased by her being in such a responsible position in the inner circle of the Clave, and then finding out that the truth was the backwards of what she'd been taught and had taught others. I'd be curious to see all that from the inside, though I'd undoubtedly need to start a fire before reading it! :(
Shared pain is lessened; shared joy is increased.
--Spider Robinson
User avatar
CovenantJr
Lord
Posts: 12608
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2002 9:10 pm
Location: North Wales

Post by CovenantJr »

Nom ;)

But seriously, Findail's take on things might be intriguing. I'm not sure about a Foul's-eye-view though... I think it would detract from him. Foul has always genuinely chilled me, and I think seeing things from his perspective would negate the sense of his pervasiveness. Not to mention, I doubt he sees things the way we do - it possibly couldn't be written in a way we'd understand.

Good question, Tom C 8)
User avatar
aTOMiC
Lord
Posts: 24594
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:48 am
Location: Tampa, Florida
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 7 times
Contact:

Post by aTOMiC »

I happen to agree with you, CJ. My little attempt at writing from Foul's perspective is an example of your point. I'm curious what is going on in his mind, but like you I don't think it can be properly articulated in a narrative. Unless of course SRD decided to do that in the Last Chrons in which case I have to say that if anyone can do it justice he can. :D
"If you can't tell the difference, what difference does it make?"
Image

"There is tic and toc in atomic" - Neil Peart
User avatar
dlbpharmd
Lord
Posts: 14460
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 9:27 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Post by dlbpharmd »

Tom, have you published your writings from LF's perspective? I'd be interested in reading that.
User avatar
aTOMiC
Lord
Posts: 24594
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:48 am
Location: Tampa, Florida
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 7 times
Contact:

Post by aTOMiC »

dlbpharmd, there is a paragraph that I've added to my first post at the beginning of this thread. Its not much but I gave it a quick shot :D
"If you can't tell the difference, what difference does it make?"
Image

"There is tic and toc in atomic" - Neil Peart
User avatar
Skyweir
Lord of Light
Posts: 25467
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2002 6:27 am
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Post by Skyweir »

CovenantJr wrote:Nom ;)

But seriously, Findail's take on things might be intriguing. I'm not sure about a Foul's-eye-view though... I think it would detract from him. Foul has always genuinely chilled me, and I think seeing things from his perspective would negate the sense of his pervasiveness. Not to mention, I doubt he sees things the way we do - it possibly couldn't be written in a way we'd understand.

Good question, Tom C 8)
yes i have to agree 8) .. good question ;)

I agree .. I think it would negate Foul's power to see inside his head .. then we'd just be abel to rationalise his perspective and find him petty .. as all evil nemeses are ;)

or end up being .. once they have elaborated on their evil plans .. which so often the bad guy does - once confronted with the protagonist :?

only to be outwitted by - the protagonists clever utilisation of the missing pieces ;)

I like not knowing too much about Foul .. makes him more of a visceral threat ..

and as it is .. Foul's not worst antagonist out there .. divulge all his mental secrets .. and it would deface his position in the grand scheme of evil dudes imo

but yes Bannor and Cail definately .. and I would love to get into Mhoram's head .. spend a few days in there ;) .. and visit with Foamy some more :)

It would be troubled but i would like to see more from Atiaran's perspective .. after she delivers TC to Foamy ..

what went through her mind on her long journey home to her family? what thoughts affected her goal for the loreseraat? while she was there? prior to her misguided summoning of TC?
ImageImageImageImage
keep smiling 😊 :D 😊

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Image

EZBoard SURVIVOR
User avatar
Durris
Giantfriend
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 6:21 pm
Location: Hamden, CT, USA

Post by Durris »

CovenantJr wrote:
Nom
To make sense of the inside of Nom's head you'd have to
Spoiler
understand Haruchai as spoken with an extremely nonnative accent...Cail's half-suppressed reaction to his first mind-hearing of that voice is one of the great comic moments of the mythos. 8O :faint:
Shared pain is lessened; shared joy is increased.
--Spider Robinson
Argent Badger
Servant of the Land
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2004 5:21 am
Location: Canada, eh?

Post by Argent Badger »

On the topic of a point of view other than the said characters (such as TC, Linden, Mhoram, etc..), If I'm not mistaken, I believe we do get to see the point of view of a raver (Samadhi?) during..
Spoiler
the siege of revelstone
Perhaps I'm mistaken in that way, and it was just Donaldson doing more third person omniscient, but I thought it did mention some of his contempt and such for Mhoram and well, humans in general.
"Your GP or your HP!"
-Thief, 8-Bit Theater
UrLord
<i>Haruchai</i>
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 3:40 pm
Location: Houston
Contact:

Post by UrLord »

Kevin, always Kevin...I'd pretty much be interested in his entire story, really, as told from his point of view. My own imaginings of his life have grown more and more elaborate of late, and the more I think about it, the more interesting I think his story would be. You know, so many people here seem to be hesitant about a TC movie that covers the main storyline, but what about Kevin's story in movie form? I think that could be done fairly well...hmmm...
User avatar
Loredoctor
Lord
Posts: 18609
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2002 11:35 pm
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Contact:

Post by Loredoctor »

I think SRD tries to maintain some sense of normal context for his characters. In this way he can play with the 'fantastic' (meaning fantasy). To write of the mind of LF or a Raver would disrupt that process.
Waddley wrote:your Highness Sir Dr. Loredoctor, PhD, Esq, the Magnificent, First of his name, Second Cousin of Dragons, White-Gold-Plate Wielder!
User avatar
Durris
Giantfriend
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 6:21 pm
Location: Hamden, CT, USA

Post by Durris »

I've been interested to notice the differences in word choice when different characters are speaking. Covenant and Linden, alone among the characters, speak straight Modern American English, contractions and all. The contrast both with the ornateness of SRD's style in general and with the more formal speech of the various peoples of the Land stands out.

This is one more way SRD establishes the collision of worlds.
Shared pain is lessened; shared joy is increased.
--Spider Robinson
User avatar
matrixman
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 8361
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:24 am

Post by matrixman »

Speaking of our two favorite neurotics, why does Linden address Covenant as Covenant, not Tom? Is this a literary device SRD uses to distinguish between Linden and Joan? Only Joan calls Covenant "Tom." I just find it curious, because I don't go around calling my colleagues by their last names, unless I was the CEO of some corporation talking down to an employee: "Anderson, you're late again!"

It would be interesting, and maybe a little disturbing, to see things from the ancient perspective of a Forestal. Talk about taking the long view: humans would be mere blips on a Forestal's consciousness, though the consequences of human actions would live long in his memory--e.g., Kevin's Ritual of Desecration (mind you, Kevin was pretty long-lived himself). There must be great melancholy and anger in his thoughts. Can you imagine the towering rage a Forestal emits whenever he comes across a Raver? (oh, wait, we saw that in The Illearth War--from Mhoram's perspective). I would think a Forestal's hate for Ravers runs almost as deep as Foul's hate for the Creator. And Forestals are allowed to hate: they didn't swear any silly Oath of Peace!
User avatar
Loredoctor
Lord
Posts: 18609
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2002 11:35 pm
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Contact:

Post by Loredoctor »

LOL Matrixman! "Anderson you're late again!"

Good points, MM. It would be amazing to see a Forestal's perspective!
User avatar
CovenantJr
Lord
Posts: 12608
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2002 9:10 pm
Location: North Wales

Post by CovenantJr »

I've noticed that it seems to be somekind of convention in fiction that male characters are referred to in the narrative by their surnames, while female characters are generally on first-name terms with the author. I'm mystified as to why though. And I can't imagine why Linden would call Covenant Covenant rather than Tom, other than because we are all used to thinking of him as Covenant. I can't think of any reason within the story for the character of Linden to continue calling him by his surname, even after they have become..."close"
User avatar
I'm Murrin
Are you?
Posts: 15840
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 1:09 pm
Location: North East, UK
Contact:

Post by I'm Murrin »

I'll admit Linden still calling him 'Covenant' is strange, but there are some people who always get called by their surnames rather than their given names - I have a friend that everyone calls 'Guy', instead of his first name 'Andrew'.
Although, I can't see why everyone else calls him 'Covenant' either - he introduces himself as 'Thomas Covenant', and the people of the Land tend to call themselves by the name that comes first....
User avatar
danlo
Lord
Posts: 20838
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2002 8:29 pm
Location: Albuquerque NM
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Post by danlo »

Maybe they all call him Covenant because they all seem to have something invested in him--a pact, a Covenant. Maybe it's a device Linden uses to keep herself from going crazy-or maybe it's just more fun to say than Thomas :roll: :?
fall far and well Pilots!
User avatar
amanibhavam
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 1497
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2002 9:54 am
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Post by amanibhavam »

I think it depends on time and culture. I personally hate it when somebody calls me by my last name (but I live in Hungary); but I find it equally strange that in the US everybody is called by diminutives - not Thomas Cruise, but Tom Cruise; not William Clinton, but Bill Clinton etc.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
love is the shadow that ripens the wine

Languages of Middle-Earth community on Google Plus
Pink Floyd community on Google Plus
Post Reply

Return to “The First and Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant”