TROY

[Fist and Faith]

You know...

There are reasons that we still read the Iliad, thousands of years later. And this movie hit all of them!! It's been a couple of decades since I read the book, but everything I remember was there, and done SO well!! What a powerful flick!!!

[The Leper Fairy]

Gahhh! Curse living in a backwards Montanan town! We won't get that movie here for 3 more months

[Fist and Faith]

I'm sorry to hear that.

[Damelon]

I'm curious to see it, but I think I'll try to get into see Kill Bill 2 before Troy.

[danlo]

I'm going, I hope, this weekend

[Fist and Faith]

I won't argue with your decision, Damelon. Especially since, I assume, you know what happens in Troy. It's not exactly the Iliad, but enough of it is.

[Worm of Despite]

Pretty good for your average Hollywood epic, but hollow overall.

[danlo]

Well then I'm not going! Thanks Foul!

[Worm of Despite]

Oh fooie.

[CovenantJr]

I may or may not bother, I haven't decided yet. I read some things that put me off a little - something about all the "mythic" elements of the story being turned into metaphor...so Achilles isn't actually an invincible warrior with a vulnerable heel, but rather he's just some bloke and "Achilles' heel" is a metaphor for his emotional weakness or some such. Call me a purist, but that raised a disdainful eyebrow...

In any case, the UK is usually a few months behind the US (I think we're even behind Montana ) so maybe I'll see it at Christmas

[Fist and Faith]

Can anyone find a spot in the Iliad where it says Achilles was invulnerable? I was under the impression that that's a wives' tale. He had armor, after all. Armor that they fought over when he died. (In the book, not the movie.) As I said, it's been a loooooooooong time since I read it, but I don't remember any mention of it.

However, in 9th grade, we read The Trojan War. This is even longer ago than the Iliad, but the general gist is this: The gods were having a party, but they didn't invite the goddess named Discord. Seems she's always causing trouble. Which she does now. She throws a golden apple into the party, with an inscription that reads, "For the fairest." This creates quite a bit of discord, as three goddesses assume it's for them. Hera, Athena, and Aphrodite. After arguing about it, they decide to ask a shepherd, Paris, to judge.

Hera approaches him first, saying, "I'll give you power and kingdoms if you declare me the fairest of all." Paris thinks, "I'm a sheherd. What use have I for power and kingdoms?"

Athena comes next, saying, "I'll give you all the wisdom of the world if you declare me the fairest of all." Paris thinks, "I'm a shepherd. What use have I for all the wisdom of the world?"

Aphrodite comes last, saying, "I'll give you the most beautiful woman in the world, Helen, if you declare me the fairest of all." And Paris thinks, "Now THAT'S something I could use!!"

In this story, we see the very beginning of the war, rather than starting years into the war, as the Iliad does. I remember Achilles fighting a son of Poseidon, who took his armor off of a shoulder, allowing a spear thrown by Achilles to pass right through it, being made of water. Achilles ends up crushing the life out of him, or something like that. Not sure why that worked, but whatever. Anyway, the movie shows the beginning of the war, and even earlier.

And in this story we read in 9th grade, the reason I brought it up in the first place , we also see Achilles' mom dip him into Styx, holding him by the heel. Is this mentioned in the Iliad?

I'm going to reread it either way. It was pretty cool. I liked the two Ajaxs, only one of which made it to the movie. And some guy who could throw spears expertly with either hand. And other stuff not seen in the movie.

btw, no gods are seen at all in the movie, although they talk about them a lot, and have statues and stuff. But we see Achilles mother for a minute, and we had already heard that she was immortal, though I don't think they say exactly what she is in the movie.


But what makes me love the movie, and the book, is when

Spoiler

Priam goes to Achilles to ask for the body of Hector. Very moving scene. And our teacher in 9th grade made sure we took note of Achilles crying. He said, "Here's a man who is the very definition of a man. The greatest of warriors, a leader of men, feared and respected by all. And he's crying! Isn't it amazing to see a man who nobody could possibly say isn't a real man cry?!"

And I guess I'll find out soon enough, but is Achilles so philosoophical in the Iliad? In the movie, his thoughts about war, life, and death are much deeper than I expected.

[Fist and Faith]

Heh. I just skimmed through the Iliad, looking for various parts. Among them, Paris shooting Achilles - the whole "Achilles heel" thing. Funny thing is, that doesn't happen in the book. I don't think I have an abridged version.

[duchess of malfi]

That's not in the book. The book ends, IIRC, with the funeral games for Hector.
The shooting of Achilles, the Trojan horse -- all of that is associated mythos, but not in the actual Illiad.

[Fist and Faith]

You're right, it ends with Hector's funeral. You know, I've always been MUCH more interested in Norse mythology than Greek, so I don't know anything about Achilles myths outside of the Iliad. Gotta go find Bulfinch maybe?

[duchess of malfi]

Go with Robert Graves' Greek mythology.

[CovenantJr]

Interesting. I've never read the Iliad itself, but I own several reference books on Greek mythology, and IIRC they all mention the invulnerability of Achilles...

[Torrent]

In any case, the UK is usually a few months behind the US (I think we're even behind Montana ) so maybe I'll see it at Christmas

Hm...this is strange. I think the movie started in German cinemas last week, and the dubbing normally takes some time.

[I'm Murrin]

The adverts have already started in the UK - it's out very soon over here (I haven't really paid attention to the date).

[CovenantJr]

That'll be a first, then

[Lord Mhoram]

I saw it today. Loved it. I would recommend it, Danlo. Brad Pitt was good, as was Prince Hector (what is his name?), Orlando Bloom, and the guy who played Priam. Of course, Helen was awesome too.
"Is this the face that launched a thousand ships?"