TOT-Chapter 22: "Also Love in the World" by Darth

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TOT-Chapter 22: "Also Love in the World" by Darth

Post by danlo »

Chapter 22, "Also Love in the World" by Darth Revan

Love! That is what this chapter is about. Nothing but love! and it is my favourite. Danlo has once again gone against common sense and allowed me to dissect it. :P heh.

So! I'll dissect, time to cut into this chapter, hmmmm, and here we start.

I think I better start off with the end off the previous chapter, just for the sake of continuity. I have copied and pasted this quote from the previous chapter dissection, hope you don't mind Furls!
"No." Covenant had been trying to stop her. "Linden. Don't. Don't blame yourself like this," He was gaunt with dismay. Every line of his form was an appeal to her across the stone of the deck. "You were just a kid. You didn't know what else to do. You're not the only one. We all have Lord Foul inside us." He radiated a leper's yearning for the wounded and the bereft. "And you saved me. You saved us all."

She shook her head. "I possessed you. You saved yourself." He had let the Elohim bereave him of mind and will until all that remained was the abject and unsupportable litany of his illness. He had accepted even that burden in the name of his commitment to the Land, his determination to battle the Despiser. And she had surrendered herself entirely, braved the worst horrors of her past, to bring him back. But she saw no virtue in that. She had done as much as anyone to drive him into his plight. And she had helped create the conditions which had forced her to violate him. "All my life" -- her hands flinched -- "I've had the darkness under control. One way or another. But I had to give that up, so I could get far enough inside you. I didn't have any left for Ceer." Severely, she concluded, "You should've let Brinn punish me."

"No." His contradiction was a hot whisper that seemed to jump the gap between them like a burst of power. Her head jerked back. She saw him clearly, facing her as if her honesty meant more to him than any act of bloodshed. From the depths of his own familiarity with self-judgment, he averred, "I don't care about your mother. I don't care if you possessed me. You had good reason. And it isn't the whole story. You saved the quest. You're the only woman I know who isn't afraid of me." His arms made a wincing movement like an embrace maimed from its inception by need and shame. "Don't you understand that I love you?"

Love? Her mouth tried to shape the word and could not. With that avowal, he changed everything. In an instant, her world seemed to become different than it was, Stumbling forward, she confronted him. He was pallid with exhaustion, damaged by the pressure of his doom. The old knife-cut marked the center of his stained shirt like the stroke of fatality. But his passion resonated against the added dimension of her hearing; and she was suddenly alive and trembling. He had not intended to refuse her. The efforts he made to withhold himself were not directed at her. It was himself that he struggled to reject. He was rife with venom and leprosy; but she recognized those things, accepted them. Before he could retreat, she caught her left arm around him, raised her right as high as she could to hold him.

For a moment longer, he strove against himself, stood rigid and unyielding in her clasp. But then he surrendered. His arms closed around her, and his mouth came down on hers as if he were falling.
awwww! Isn't this the loveliest thing?! :P

Sooo...We start off in Lindens cabin, and the previous night, they have made love.

Linden is the happiest, it seems, that she's been the whole two books.
Late the next morning, after the long night of the full moon, she awakened in her hammock. She felt deeply comfortable, assuaged by sleep. Her right arm was warm and drowsy to the tips of her fingers, like a revenant of her former self, the child unacquainted with death; aneled with numbness as if her blood had become chrism. She was reluctant to open her eyes. Though the cabin beyond her eyelids was refulgent with sunshine, she did not want the day to begin, did not want the night to end.
I loved this passage, for several reasons. The first reason is, I really like Linden's character, and it's good to see her happy for once. Secondly, because it shows how much of her has been healed by love: how much of her old self has evaporated just through one night of lovemaking. Think about it though, how much she has truly been healed, there is no reference to her "Black Moods" in the future books. Thus I deduce that she has been healed of them.

Hmmm onward, or I'll be boring you with my ramblings and loser talks on how lovely I think this chapter is, if I am not already,
Yet the whole length of her body, freshly scrubbed the night before and alert to caresses,remembered the pressure of Covenant's presence, knew that he was gone. Somehow, he had contrived to leave the hammock without rousing her. She started to murmur a sleepy protest.
Awww! She starts to protest just cause she thinks he's gone. Isn't that sweet?
Sorry for annoying you all, anyways, I also assume she's bathed with Thomas Covenant by this quote: Freshly scrubbed the night before. I have one question about the quote above though: alert to caresses... er... Thomas Covenant is a leper...and has not feeling in his fingertips... :?

But, Linden soon learns that Thomas has in fact not left her. And that he is in the cabin with her. Shaving his beard. And again, he is doing it with Wild Magic.
But then the nerves of her cheek felt a faint tingle of wild magic He was still in the cabin with her. She smiled softly to herself as she raised her head, looked over the edge of the hammock towards him.
He stood barefoot and vivid in the sunlight on the floor below her. His clothes and hers, hung on chair backs, where they had been left to dry after being washed by the Haruchai, a task which Brinn and Cail had undertaken the precious afternoon at the behest to their particular sense of duty. But he made no move to get dressed. His hands covered his face like an unconscious mimicry of sorrow. With the small flame of his ring, he was cleaning the beard from his cheeks and neck.
In silence so that she would not interrupt his concentration, she watched him intently, striving to memorize him before he became aware of her scrutiny, became self-conscious. He was lean to the point of gauntness, all excess burned away by his incessant hear. But the specific efficiency of his form pleased her.
Well well well! I never thought I'd live to see the day where a woman would find Thomas Covenant attractive, lols. I also thought this was sweet in a way. Stephen Donaldson writes women beautifully in my opinion, and that shines through in the above quote, as it does this entire chapter.

Thomas Covenant finishes burning his beard off and turns to Linden. And it is clear that he is not as content as Linden herself, and feels a need to talk. .
But his tone made her aware of the complexity in his gaze. He was looking at her with more than just his memories of the past night. He was disturbed about something. She did not want to give up her rare and tender easement; but she did not hesitate. Gently, she asked, 'what's the matter?'
Covenant tells her that many things are troubling him, and still he does not decide to tell Linden about the knife in his chest, though he touches the subject,
'...maybe I'm not even going to live through it. His mouth was a grimace of difficult honesty. Maybe we're not going to get back in time for you to do anything about that knife in my chest.'
hmmm...I don't like this... I think he should be honest with her and tell the truth. Though I understand him not telling the truth now, it would completely ruin everything.

Anyways, they talk about what Findail meant when he said, 'Did we not preserve your soul?' the previous chapter. And the conversation takes an unexpected turn when Linden asks him to tell her about the necessity of freedom. Which I think is very important throughout all the second chronicles, so I'd just thought I'd mention it. In this conversation, Linden goes on to tell Thomas about the vision she had of him, when she tried to possess him.
She closed her eyes. Shutting out the way he looked at her. 'But I only got in so far.' Dark and hungry for power, she had tried to take mastery of him. And now the virulence of the result came back to her. She began rocking unconsciously against the faint sway of the hammock, seeking to comfort herself, persuade her memories into language. 'Then I was thrown out. Or I threw myself out. To escape what I saw.' Aching, she described her vision of him as a Sunbane-victim, as monstrous and abominable as Marid.
At once, she sought his face as if it were an image to dispel dismay. He watched her sharply, ire and dread conflicted his gaze. With a harshness she did not intend and could not suppress, she rasped, 'Can you really tell me you aren't already sold? You aren't already a tool of the Despiser?'
I really like this part. It shows in a way how great Linden is. Most women would be content with the night they just had. And leave it at that, but she is determined to be honest, not to let problems slide. And Thomas'
reaction is great as well, because Linden's question could have taken the wrong way completely:
'Maybe I'm not.' The lines of his face became implacable, as if she had driven him beyond reach, compelled him to retreat to the granite foundation of his pain and isolation. His voice sounded as cold as leprosy. 'Maybe the Elohim just think I am. Maybe what you saw is just their image of me.' Then his features clenched. He shook his head in self-coercion. 'No. That's just one more cheap answer. Slowly, his grimace softened like a chosen vulnerability, exposing himself to her.
Thomas tells Linden he's not going to surrender while he has any hopes left. Linden herself being one of them. Another hope he mentions (I wouldn't have mentioned this... But he mentions Mhoram, so I could hardly refuse,) is:
'And there's one more. One more hope.' His tone was softer now, almost tender; suffused with sorrow and recognition. 'I told you I've been the Land three times before. In a way, it was four, not three. The first three times, I didn't have any choice. I was summoned whether I wanted to go or not. After the first time, I didn't want to.
But the third was the worst. I was in the woods behind the farm, and there was this little girl who was about to get bitten by a timber rattler. I went to try to save her. But I fell. The next thing I knew, I was halfway into Revelstone, and Mhoram was doing his damnedest to finish summoning me.
I refused. That girl was part of the real world, and the snake was going to kill her. That was more important to me than anything else, no matter what happened to the Land
When I told Mhoram about her...', his voice was a clench of loss '...he let me go.' The tension of his arms and shoulders seems to echo, Mhoram
Yet he forced himself to continue. 'I got back too late to stop the snake. But the girl was still there. I managed to suck out some of the venom, and then somehow I got her back to her parents. By that time, the forth summoning had already started. And I accepted it. I went by choice. There wasn't anything else I wanted except one last chance to fight Foul.'

He was gazing up at Linden squarely now, letting her see his unresolved contradictions, his difficult and ambiguous answers. 'Did I sell myself to Foul by refusing Mhoram? Or to the Creator by accepting the last summons? I don't know. But I think that no human being can be made into a tool involuntarily. Manipulated into destruction, maybe. Misled or broken. But if I do what Foul wants, it'll be because I failed somehow, misunderstood something, surrendered to my own inner despiser, lost courage, fell in love with power or destruction, something.' He articulated each word like an affirmation. 'Not because I'm anybody's tool.'
Hmmm... there's got to be a better way to get quotes than by typing them out.. heh. That was just too long. Anyways, I don't entirely see what hope he's got there, maybe one of you people with brains can tell me...

And In response to this, Linden decides to give him her last secret.
'I haven't told you everything that old man said to me. On Haven Farm. He told me Be True. But that wasn't all.' After the passage of so much time, she still knew the word as if they had been incused on her brain. 'He said, "Ah my daughter, do not fear. You will not fail, however he may assail you..."' Meeting Covenant's gaze, she tried to give her eyes the clarity her voice lacked. '"...there is also love in the world."'
Hugglessssss! |G

Anyways... The rest of that part goes like this,
For a moment, he remained motionless, absorbing the revelation. Then he lifted his halfhand towards her. His flesh gleamed in the sunshine which angled into the cabin from the open port. The wry corners of his mouth counterpoised the dark heat of his orbs as he said, 'Can you believe it? I used to be impotent. Back when I thought leprosy was the whole story.'
In reply, she rolled over the edge of the hammock, dropped her feet to the stepladder. Then she took his hand, and he drew her down into the light.
I think this is really sweet; the chapter up still now, it shows how much they've grow since the beginning of The Wounded Land. Where Thomas was, really, scared that Linden might begin to care about him, so much, that he told Linden his worst crime. Or Linden, well, we all know how terrified she was of intimacy, and now, look! They're the perfect couple!

And, ahhhh! My favourite part,
Then for a time Linden felt she was blushing like a girl. She strove to remain detached; but she could not stifle the blood which betrayed her face. Every Giant they meet seemed to look at her and Covenant with knowledge, laughter, and open approval. Pitchwife grinned so hugely that his pleasure dominated the disformation of his features. Honninscrave's eyes shone from under his fortified brows and his beard bristled with appreciation. Sevinhand Anchormaster's habitual melancholy lifted into a smile which was both rue trammelled and genuine, the smile of a man who had lost his own love so long ago that envy no longer hindered his empathy. Even Galewrath's stolid face crinkled at what she saw, And a rare softness entered the First's demeanour, giving a glimpse of her Giantish capacity for glee.
Finally their attentions became so explicit that Linden wanted to turn away. Embarrassment might have made her sound angry if she had spoken. But Covenant faced them all with his arms cocked mock-seriously on his hips and growled, 'Does everybody on this bloody rock know what we do with our privacy?'
My favourite part in the whole book, there's humour from Thomas, something rarely known within these stories. And Linden, bless her, blushing like a little schoolgirl! And the Giants knowing what has happened... Lovely heh, forgive me for being either annoying or wuss like in the dissection of this chapter. Blame Danlo

Linden and Thomas walk around the Giantship for most of the day. Both feeling quite comfortable. And we also find out that both Brinn and Cail unsettled:
Brinn and Cail held themselves constantly available, but at a distance, as if they did not wish to intrude, or were uncomfortable in Linden's proximity.
And:
She seemed to feel something unresolved in them. Covenant had demanded and won their forbearance. Apparently, their trust or mistrust was not so readily swayed.
Interesting, I found myself wondering if they were vexed by Linden's relationship with Thomas. If they were thinking "Get your hands off our Ur-Lord, b***h!" No, seriously though, do you think they were bothered by it? Did they think less of Covenant by getting involved with Linden?

Also, in this chapter, we note that Seadreamer spends his time in his own cabin. I wonder how he would have felt about Linden and Covenant? (Sorry for asking so many questions, but this is a dissection)

During the night, the Giants gather round the foremast to tell stories. Thomas tells the Giants and Linden the story of Berek Halfhand; which Giants enjoyed. Then, once he finishes, Findail comes to the foremast, and desires to tell a story.

He sings first of the Appointed (I've had enough of quotes, get your own ) He goes on to speak about his people; (Okok, I'll give you quotes! Quit badgering me! Jeez!) hehe.
'The Elohim are unlike the other peoples of the Earth,' he said into the lantern light and the dark. 'We are of the Earth, and the Earth is of us, more quintessentially and absolutely than any other manifestation of life. We are its Wurd. There is no other opposite or defining name for us. And therefore have we become a solitary people, withholding ourselves from the outer world, exercising care in encroachments we permit the outer world to have upon us. How should we do otherwise?'
Findail goes on to talk about how an Appointed one gave her life to give the forest a defence against hatred, and a chance to prevent itself from being destroyed. They did this by binding her to, what is know as, The Colossus of the Fall. And this is how the Forestals were created.

But Findail's tale is not about the Colossus, it is about Kastenessen; An Elohim who fell in love with a mortal woman. (It is not actually said what kind of creature though) Because of this act, (which by the Elohim was deemed wrong) he was elected to be the Appointed. He was Appointed to halt a great fire in the north. However, Kastenessen tried to deny the burden; and fled. However Findail and several other Elohim gave chase. And fought with him. And Kastenessen had to be forced and bound to halt the fire.

I found this part of the story interesting also, The Elohim are the one people I don't quite understand. Why do they act the way they did? Why did they blank Thomas out? Why didn't they speak of what was going to happen at the one tree it they didn't want it to happen? Hmmm...

Findail ends his story with:
'Had we held any other means to combat the fire, we would not have Appointed Kastenessen as we did. He was not chosen in punishment or malice, but in extremity.' His yellow eyes appeared to collect the lantern-light, shining out of the dark with a preternatural brightness. 'The price of sight is risk and dare. I desire to be understood.'
Interesting. Is it not? Food for thought.

So three days go by on our beloved Giantship. And there is a large storm. Thomas mentions something that occurred in the First Chronicles. when he broke the storm of Drool Rockworm, with Atiaran. And mentions this to the First. When asked if he is going to attempt such an act again; he says no, on the grounds he would probably blow another hole in the ship.

The next day, the storms still did not lessen, Thomas and Linden are on deck talking together, and then alarm starts to spread; and the First and Pitchwife comes over to the Unbeliever and the Chosen. Pitchwife positions himself directly behind the Ur-Lord. Then Seadreamer turns up. The Sunsage begins to feel a powerful force coming towards the Giantship. And when she asks what is coming their way, the First says '"Merewives"; Also know as "the Dancers of the Sea"'. Linden then asks what they are; Pitchwife responds:
'Some say,' Pitchwife went on, 'that they are the female soul of the Sea, seeking forever among the oceans for some male heart hardy enough to consummate them. Others say that they are the lost mates of a race which once lived within the deeps, and their search is for their husbands, who have been slain or mazed or concealed. The truth I know not. But all tales agree that they are perilous. Their song is one which no man may gainsay or deny. Chosen, do you hear their song?' Linden did not speak. He took her response for granted. 'I also do not hear it. Perhaps the merewives have no desire for Giants, as they have none for women. Our people have never suffered scathe from these folk.' His voice sharpened involuntarily as the first spouts wet the sides of the Giantship. 'Yet for other men...'.
The merewives' power surrounds the ship. And Pitchwife tells Linden that if they are not answered, they will pass. Linden looks towards Covenant,
He was bucking and twisting against Pitchwife's rigid grasp on his shoulders,
Oh the drama! You gotta love this chapter... you just have to. If you don't, then we are enemies... :P heh. I've asked quite a few questions... do your best to answer them, even though they make no sense.. :screwy: :D
Last edited by danlo on Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TOT-Chapter 22: "Also Love in the World" by Da

Post by Myste »

Darth Revan wrote: Interesting, I found myself wondering if [the were vexed by Linden's relationship with Thomas. If they were thinking "Get your hands off our Ur-Lord, b***h!"
:lol: :mrgreen: :lol: I always thought they must be thinking something like this. I mean, they've just decided that she's the hand of Corruption among the Search and that she must be destroyed, and all of a sudden the man they've sworn to serve is declaring that he loves her, giving her a bath, and making love to her. :D

The juxtaposition of this chapter and the next interests me as well. To put it bluntly, I wonder if the "prolific" Haruchai don't get just a little jealous, or start feeling really repressed at the fact that Covenant and Linden have found each other, and if that doesn't, to a certain extent,
Spoiler
make them more susceptible to the merewives
in the next chapter. They're not the Bloodguard, I know; they haven't gone for two thousand years without sleep or sex. But I would guess from the way Brinn describes Haruchai women that the absence of female companionship they can respect is difficult for them.
Last edited by Myste on Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TOT-Chapter 22: "Also Love in the World" by Da

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Darth Revan wrote:I have one question about the quote above though: alert to caresses... er... Thomas Covenant is a leper...and has not feeling in his fingertips...
True, but SRD is referring to Linden as being alert, not Covenant.
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Post by Seafoam Understone »

Great dissection, almost as long as one of mine or Fists.
There is a great deal of ... stuff going on, particularly between TC and LA.
SRD does write with sensitivity, I'll not dispute you there. He's insightful to the thoughts and feelings of women... a rare thing among men. :lol:
Stone and Sea! Were we ever able to figure each other out? Sigh.

To me the chapter is the aftermath of falling in love or expressing love for one another. It doesn't always have to be bad, but it's not always good, particularly in the case of |T & |L Yes, they most likely bathed together, one of a hundred good ways for a man and woman to become fully (physically) intimate with one another. Though they were already fully intimate down in the dungeon of the Kasryen.

Linden probably murmured her protest that she had to wake up more than the absence of TC's physical presence. When you sleep well after a night of (good) sex it's hard to want to wake up.

Why shouldn't Linden find TC attractive. As a doctor she understands leporsy and with the exception of his hand (and gauntness) he's basically still whole.

It could be the truth as he sees it. Remember the words of Obi-wan Kenobi to Luke (from ROTJ)
"Luke, you'll find many of the truths we cling to depend greatly upon our point of view"
Darth Revan wrote: I really like this part. It shows in a way how great Linden is. Most women would be content with the night they just had. And leave it at that, but she is determined to be honest, not to let problems slide.
Seems to me you've a lot more to learn about women my friend. Most women would NOT be content "with just the night and leave it at that." A guy sure... but that's just how we are...generally. Women seek a deeper intimacy from/with their lovers than just sex. Communication is a big part of being intimate with someone. So, talking about touchy subjects and issues help builds that security. As evident here, Linden jumps on the chance because instinctively she knows it's for the best.
Thomas Covenant finishes burning his beard off and turns to Linden. And it is clear that he is not as content as Linden herself, and feels a need to talk. .

But his tone made her aware of the complexity in his gaze. He was looking at her with more than just his memories of the past night. He was disturbed about something. She did not want to give up her rare and tender easement; but she did not hesitate. Gently, she asked, 'what's the matter?'
Darth Revan wrote: And Thomas' reaction is great as well, because Linden's question could have taken the wrong way completely:
SRD's rendering of TC's growth as a human being probably what makes this series a best seller.
Darth Revan wrote: Hmmm... there's got to be a better way to get quotes than by typing them out.. heh. That was just too long. Anyways, I don't entirely see what hope he's got there, maybe one of you people with brains can tell me...
I dunno about you but one of the guys on this board, Vain I believe sent me copies of all six books in the series via e-mail. From there I'm able to copy/paste whatever quotes/verses/lines that I need. You may want to seek-out Vain and request (respectfully... remember Vain |V does pretty much what he wants to (just kidding dude)) that he send you the same via e-mail.
...there is also love in the world."
This goes a lot deeper than you might expect. This came from the creator and thus a wiser being than I or anyone else will ever be. Love in the world takes shape in so many ways. The Giants, the Lady Alif (helping the quest...yes it was out of love because she deep down inside was a decent human being), believe it or not.. Love shown in the way of service from the Haruchai. Love of Sunder and Hollian though they are thousands of miles away, and even from Hamako who serves though the Wayhym. So not only is there possiblity of love for TC and LA but love for all.

Yes, the Giants are not blind to the glow that shines from their faces as they emerge. Linden blushing like an errant schoolgirl definitely gives it away. But as always the Giants show approval because they are as Foamfollower (??) once told Covenant (paraphrasing because I cannot find exactly where)... "We giants love children, but love the making of children even more..."
With the Haruchai being hard to read at times, it's difficult to say exactly (for me anyway) how they're feeling about Linden's new closeness with their Ur-Lord. But they've always known TC's love for her and perhaps seen her love for him. Probably why they're vexed as to why she doesn't go out of her way to help more with him and/or the quest.

Seadreamer probably saw it coming just as well. For is he not a Giant? Also he has the Earthsight. While a mystery at best, it's a bet that it provides him with a deeper insight than he cares to have.
Spoiler
as he may have seen the failure at the ONE TREE and the consenquences it will have for the two
Findail's tale is another similarity between Tolkien's LOTR's with Arwen and Aragorn's love for each other .... in the appendixes.

Now come the Merewives...
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There is also love in the world

Post by srtrout »

These books are all so dark, with so much despair, evil, etc, that it is an absolute relief when something nice happens for a while!

In the first series, the great grandness of Revelstone , the healthy beauty of Adelain, the craftsmanship of Soaring Woodhelven, Foamfollower's laugh.

In the second series such scenes are farther between, but at least they return to Andelain, the world beyond "the land" is healthy, and the "eldritch" beauty of the Elohim, the healthy vigor of the "wild and vasty sea".

Still, there is no other moment in this entire work where Covenant is as peaceful, happy, and content as in this little one night stand! It sounded like his marriage was never great, even before he was sick; when he returned to the "real world" life was pretty tough, but the old guy at least gets one night of love here. (It is one place where there is not a parallel with Christianity - the gospels never describe Jesus enjoying any romance, and never mind what Dan Brown says!

I love this chapter, it gives you a nice break from some of the relentless struggle before and after it. It's especially charming when all of the crew show they obviously figured out what was going on!

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Post by Revan »

Seafoam Understone wrote:
Darth Revan wrote: I really like this part. It shows in a way how great Linden is. Most women would be content with the night they just had. And leave it at that, but she is determined to be honest, not to let problems slide.
Seems to me you've a lot more to learn about women my friend. Most women would NOT be content "with just the night and leave it at that." A guy sure... but that's just how we are...generally. Women seek a deeper intimacy from/with their lovers than just sex. Communication is a big part of being intimate with someone. So, talking about touchy subjects and issues help builds that security. As evident here, Linden jumps on the chance because instinctively she knows it's for the best.
heh, I guess I know that... I was just trying to make it sweet... your totally right there... women are exactly like that. :)
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Post by dlbpharmd »

TC! She's trying to seduce you! Women are the devil! Next thing you know there will be kids and mini-van payments and mortgages....Run away! Run away!

Just kidding, everyone.

Even though LA has been on my last nerve throughout this book, I too was glad to see TC happy for a change.

Nice dissection, Darth.
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Post by Myste »

dlbpharmd wrote:TC! She's trying to seduce you! Women are the devil!
:lol: Or at the very least, the Hand of Corruption among us. :lf:
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Post by Durris »

Darth wrote:Where Thomas was, really, scared that Linden might begin to care about him, so much, that he told Linden his worst crime.
Yes! And Linden...well, she reciprocated and then some: immediately before this she committed her, well, second-worst crime. Though she argued against Brinn's judgment of her, she had considered it a done deal that Covenant would also hate her after what she did.

Both partners seem to have needed to prove their unworth (pardon my accent!) to each other to get the rejection over with. Except it didn't work that way at all.

I particularly loved the description of Linden's arm recovering (from the effects of Cail's kick):
SRD wrote:aneled of numbness as if her blood had become chrism.
"Anele" looks and sounds like "anneal" but is not the same. "Anele" is an old word for "anoint", and "chrism" is anointing oil that is applied to a newly baptized person. In half a sentence SRD has given a sacramental significance to this physical relationship--or rather verbalized the redemptive quality Covenant plainly intended in it. Linden wakes beside him reborn, shriven of her old and new sins.
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Post by Myste »

Durris wrote:
SRD wrote:aneled of numbness as if her blood had become chrism.
"Anele" looks and sounds like "anneal" but is not the same. "Anele" is an old word for "anoint", and "chrism" is anointing oil that is applied to a newly baptized person.
And I thought it was a typo.....
Halfway down the stairs Is the stair where I sit. There isn't any other stair quite like it. I'm not at the bottom, I'm not at the top; So this is the stair where I always stop.
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Post by matrixman »

Aack! I am so far behind the dissections it's not even funny.

Very enjoyable summary, Lord Revan. :D

I love these moments in the Chronicles when our heroes gather round for the telling of stories. I like how SRD sets the stage, creating a space of calm and quiet for storytellers and listeners so that nothing interferes with the magic of the tales being told. It's nice how everyone settles into place after a good supper (for what Giant wishes to hear stories on an empty stomach?), and how the stories start with song to set the mood:
...the dark was warm with camaraderie and anticipation, comfortable with the clear-eyed comfort of Giants. High above the slow dance of the masts, stars elucidated the heavens. When the singing began, Linden settled herself gladly against the foremast and let the oaken health of the crew carry her away.
Findail's story of Kastenessen is intriguing. About that fire in the north that the Elohim fought: the details of that event are vague enough that, in light of the Last Chronicles, I have to wonder if it's a tale SRD will reveal more of. Any threat to the Earth that can compel the Elohim into taking action has my attention.

Durris, very nice analysis of SRD's use of words (as always). 8)
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Post by Myste »

Matrixman wrote:Findail's story of Kastenessen is intriguing. About that fire in the north that the Elohim fought: the details of that event are vague enough that, in light of the Last Chronicles, I have to wonder if it's a tale SRD will reveal more of. Any threat to the Earth that can compel the Elohim into taking action has my attention.
Yes, I've always wondered about that--I understand that one of the Appointed became the Colossus of the Fall, but I've never clearly understood Kastenessen's story. Is there a thread that talks about it? Should we make one?
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Post by matrixman »

Hey, Myste, I see a few scattered threads about the Elohim in the Thomas Covenant forum, but nothing specifically about Kastenessen.
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Re: TOT-Chapter 22: "Also Love in the World" by Da

Post by Revan »

Mr Fixit wrote:
Darth Revan wrote:I have one question about the quote above though: alert to caresses... er... Thomas Covenant is a leper...and has not feeling in his fingertips...
True, but SRD is referring to Linden as being alert, not Covenant.
Yes, but I naturally assume that the caresses come from Covenant... I mean you tend to caress your partner in love making, least ways that's been my experience. :?
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Post by dlbpharmd »

The thread about Kastenessen in the TC forum really made me start to think:
Spoiler
1. What if Linden turns out to be the woman that falls in love with Kastenessen? (Not my thought, just repeated here from the TC forum)
2. An Elohim was bound by the Forest into the stone Colossus. What if the binding of Kastenessen was into the form of the One Tree?
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Post by Revan »

Kastenessen... I am sorry I did not go into more detail abot him when I wrote this... It was a huge mistake, Because BIG SPOILER WARNING; TO DO WITH THE THIRD CHRONICLES
Spoiler
He plays a massive part in the Third Chronicles, (or certainly looks to be)
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Post by dlbpharmd »

I already suspected as much.
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Post by duchess of malfi »

It's OK, Darth. When Runes comes out, perhaps we can start a big discussion of him then. :wink:
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Post by Cate »

In reply to Darth's dissection......where Covenant said....."Did I sell myself to Foul by refusing Mhoram? Or to the creator by accepting the last summons? I don't know, but I think that no human being can be made into a tool involuntarily.
Manipulated into destruction maybe. Misled or broken. But if I do what Foul wants, It'll be because I failed somehow, misunderstood something, surrendered to my own inner despiser,
lost courage, fell in love with power or destruction
something/ not because I'm anybody's tool"

Covenant faces out loud the human condition. He said, with what hope is still left in his heart, that no one can be made a tool involuntarily, and then described how one becomes a tool---in- voluntarily.
Yet it proves that in most cases, humans are not voluntary victims of our "inner despiser", albeit there are times when he seems to win. However, as Linden pointed out, " There is also love in the world." yes, there still is, and it IS the basis for all things, and the cure for all things, and without it, Covenant and Linden wouldn't have had the courage to continue, let alone have made the journey that far. It was Linden's love and his love for her that forced him onward. It was LOVE -of the Land and the people that made Covenant choose to accept the summonsing that time...(even tho he accepted, did he REALLY have a choice?)
and it was LOVE that drove him to finish his quest in the Land, not to mention his responsibilities in his own world.
And before I forget....."my daughter...." (got any thoughts on that one?????)
God, give me a week with Stephen D. :roll: :oops:
"let the storm of thought spend itself. Presently you will arrive upon a calm sea."......Walter Lanyon
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Post by Revan »

:D :D :D

Great reply Cate. :)

Some great questions, which I do not doubt the Watchers here will enjoy answering... (Not me though :P )

I don't think we're victims of our inner despiser all the time... hmmm... food for thought...
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