TOT-Chapter 24, The Isle

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Durris
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TOT-Chapter 24, The Isle

Post by Durris »

Bear with me, comrades: this installment may have what editors call “pacing problems”. This is a central chapter, and nothing in it is unimportant; I may never be able to shut up!

The pace and development of this chapter is different from the previous one. Where “Withdrawal from Service” starts, quite literally, with a splash, followed by tense waiting on the Giants’ rescue efforts, and an emotionally and morally explosive climax, “The Isle” begins as a slow chapter. Its pace is not a calm after the previous night’s moral storm, however, but a long simmering of dread and anticipation that will eventually boil over all at once.

Honninscrave, the First, Pitchwife, and Covenant anticipate the arrival at the One Tree; Linden and Seadreamer dread it. The contrast picks up a thread that has woven in and out of the story since we first met the Search in TWL: Covenant has asked and received this entire voyage on his authority as Giantfriend and ring-wielder, against the guidance of Seadreamer’s Earth-Sight. And even he isn’t certain that this is the right choice: his anticipation has a ragged edge of strenuously suppressed doubt.
He seemed avid for the One Tree to the point of fever….[Linden] saw in his face that he was remembering the Clave, people butchered to feed the Banefire, self-distrust; remembering power and venom over which he had no control. At times, his gaze was hollow with recollections of silence. Even his lovemaking became strangely vehement, as if despite their embraces he believed he had already lost her.
Flinch. There is also love in the world, but under the Arch of Time it can never be guaranteed secure.

Though the goal of Search and Quest is the same, the Sunbane’s end, the Giants have had to make a leap of faith—constantly renewed as each risk of this voyage has become a worse disaster than the last—to trust that the One Tree is truly a means to that end. They’ve talked themselves and each other into doing so, and Seadreamer has just had to swallow it because he has no voice to say them nay. Plainly, at this juncture, if he could speak, he would shout, “For the last time, DON’T DO THIS!!”

Findail accedes to Linden’s request that he succor Seadreamer. I’m a bit mystified as to why. Because the Sun-Sage herself asked him to? Because even his Elohim arrogance isn’t completely empathy-proof? Or because if Seadreamer is asleep he won’t be able to communicate his fears to anyone with the power to change the ship’s destination? Linden several times sits on the impulse to tell Covenant to turn back; Covenant needs the One Tree to break the double bind between the equal desecrations of the Sunbane and the venom, and if he lost that hope he’d have none to put in its place. She can’t bring herself to take it from him.

Starfare’s Gem passes through a school (pod?) of Nicor, more than have ever been seen together before. This scene for me intensified the sense of being outside all normal (for even this Earth) lands and seas.

As the ship continues flying toward the Isle (with all the speed that the narrative itself lacks at this point, by design), the apprehensive Giants console themselves with song and merriment; Covenant and Linden give each other what private comfort they can—insofar as either of them is able to be comforted just now.
[Covenant] stood apart as if the recanting of the Haruchai had shaken him to the core of his strength [it certainly did so to us readers!], rendering him inaccessible to consolation. Or perhaps he held back because he had forgotten how to be alone, how to confront his doom without loathing his loneliness. [How quickly he has lost the habit of his leper’s defenses…I can’t help but see that as progress.] When he and Linden went below to her cabin, he huddled on the pallet as if he could hardly endure the bare comfort of her flesh.
Next morning, Covenant prepares to put on his old clothes. Consciously or unconsciously he’s preparing to resume the physical condition from which he was summoned from our world; whatever happens at the One Tree has the potential to cast one or both strangers forth from the Land again. Linden looks at him with a mute plea: covering his nakedness, so new to her senses, with his old clothes would be like relegating what they have become to each other to the status of a dream—or of the merewives’ song. He relents…and much later dons his Giantish robe.

By the time SRD showed the pair pacing on deck the next day, I was pacing too, like a kid asking the Captain and the First, “Are we there yet? Are we there yet?”

For all the waiting, when the Isle is finally sighted it’s a surprise…the more so because the One Tree isn’t visible on it anyplace. I’m reminded of an aphorism from Le Guin’s Always Coming Home:
Ursula K. Le Guin wrote: In the center is the absence. It is so.
SRD wrote:Linden was not as far-eyed as the Giants; but after another league she also spotted the Isle. Tiny in the distance, it stood like a point of fatality at the juncture of sea and sky—the pivot around which the Earth turned.
The very name “The One Tree” evokes ancient myths of the tree that is the axis of the world. We’re at the farthest point off the edge of the map, but for that very reason we’re now approaching the center of the cosmos. I remember a quote from some medieval mystic: “God is a circle whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere.”

As dusk falls, a longboat is launched with Covenant, Linden, Honninscrave, Seadreamer, the First, Pitchwife, and, unexpectedly, Brinn and Cail, who appear without speaking to anyone. Findail materializes in the boat once it’s untied from the ship side.

Honninscrave and Seadreamer row for hours; from a distance, the Isle seems to get nearer slowly. An eldritch mist rises to envelop both the quest and the Isle (another cinematographic moment). It obscures everything that could measure the boat’s progress, but when it parts the quest finds that the Isle is no nearer than it ever was. Plainly we’re operating outside physical distance and sequential time.
Findail stood facing the Isle. His mien and hair were dry, untouched by the mist. He held his arms folded across his chest as if the sea were gripped motionless in the crooks of his elbows. The focus of his eyes was as intent as an act of will.
This seems to be one of SRD’s similes that states the exact thing that’s happening under the guise of a figure of speech. Somehow Findail seems to bring about what happens next (help me out, kinfolk: his doing so seems both important and inexplicable).

And suddenly this isn’t a slowly simmering chapter any more; it flashes into a steam explosion in an instant.
But then violence broke out behind the Appointed.
Brinn tries to leap into the sea; Seadreamer catches him; they wrestle; Honninscrave tries to separate them; Cail starts to dive into the battle, but the First pulls him away and draws her sword on Brinn.
“Enough!”
Honninscrave shifted out of her way. Seadreamer stopped fighting. Before Brinn could evade her, she had her blade at his throat.
When she asks Brinn to explain, he will speak only to Covenant. And it’s plain on Seadreamer’s face that what he’s been dreading all along is now arriving. Linden figures out that whatever Brinn intends will make possible the awful thing Seadreamer sees, whatever it may be.
Fighting to regain her voice, [Linden] confronted Covenant… "Don’t—" She was trembling. "Don’t let him do it. The consequences—"
But Linden of all people has reason to know that sometimes a person cannot be who they are and not do a certain thing, irrespective of the consequences; if consequences could have signified, she wouldn’t have taken the silence from Covenant.

And shortly the stakes on not allowing Brinn are raised.
The Haruchai had gripped the First’s blade in one hand. Against her great strength, he strove to thrust the iron away from his throat. Blood coursed down his forearm as the longsword bit his flesh; but his determination did not waver. In a moment, he would sever his fingers if the First did not relent. …Cursing under her breath [in Giantish or Haruchai? With the gift of tongues, she was equally fluent in both!], the First withdrew her sword. “You are mad.” She was hoarse with emotion. “I will not accept [the inverse of Tan-Haruchail] the burden of your maiming or death in this way.”
Amid the moral and physical horror of this battle of wills I must confess to a certain exaltation: this has got to be the apotheosis of Haruchai stubbornness seen anywhere in the mythos. Plainly whatever Brinn wants to do is, to say the least, not an idle whim.
“Ur-Lord, I ask you to hear me.”
Covenant stared at the Haruchai. His nod appeared oddly fragile; the acuity of his passion made him brittle.
“There is a tale among the Haruchai,” Brinn began without inflection, “a legend preserved by the old tellers from the farthest distance of our past, long ages before our people ever encountered Kevin Landwaster and the Lords of the Land. It is said that upon the edge of the Earth at the end of time stands a lone man who holds the meaning of the Haruchai—a man whom we name ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol. It is said that he has mastered all skill and prowess that we desire, all mastery like unto the poised grandeur of mountains. And it is said, should ever one of the Haruchai seek out ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol and contest with him, we will learn the measure of our worth, in defeat or triumph. Therefore are the Haruchai a seeking people. In each heart among us beats a yearning for this test and the knowledge it offers.
“Yet the path which leads to ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol is unknown, has never been known. It is said that this path must not be known—that it may only be found by one who knows without knowledge and has not come seeking the thing he seeks.” In spite of its flatness, Brinn’s voice expressed a mounting excitement. “I am that one. To this place I have come in your name rather than my own, seeking that which I have not sought.
“Ur-Lord, we have withdrawn from your service. I do not seek to serve you now. But you wield the white ring. You hold power to prevent my desire. Should you take this burden upon yourself, it will be lost to me—perhaps to all Haruchai forever. I ask that you permit me. Of Cable Seadreamer’s Earth-Sight I comprehend nothing. It is clear to me that I will only succeed or fail. If I fail, the matter will fall to you. And if I succeed— “ His voice dropped as if in no other way could he contain the strength of his yearning. “Ur-Lord.” Clenched as if it were squeezing blood out of itself, his fist rose like an appeal. “Do not prevent me from the meaning of our lives.”
I was all ready to write about the paradox of “knows without knowledge and has not come seeking the thing he seeks,” so like the paradox of white gold. But just typing this quote has left me speechless and proseless. This chapter and the previous one reveal the molten core beneath the dispassionate Haruchai surface; reading them is like watching a volcanic eruption shattering a glacier.




*silent tears and curling toes*





...
Perhaps it’s Covenant’s leprosy that makes Brinn’s molten desire incomprehensible to him.
“And if you fail?” Covenant lashed the word at Brinn’s dispassion. “You already believe you’re unworthy. How much more do you think you can stand?”
Brinn’s visage remained inflexible. “I will know the truth. Any being who cannot bear the truth is indeed unworthy.”
Covenant sees only another risk of failure, and the potential of a self-judgment as overwhelming as that provoked by the merewives. But to Brinn this opportunity is a great and unforeseen grace. I’m reminded of a quote from Lois McMaster Bujold’s Shards of Honor:
…I’ve always thought—tests are a gift. And great tests are a great gift. To fail the test is a misfortune. But to refuse the test is to refuse the gift, and something worse, more irrevocable, than misfortune.
While his companions are still arguing about permission, Brinn slips overboard and swims to the Isle to meet the Guardian. (Suddenly distance and speed are working normally again; or perhaps distance and speed in this place are functions of the intensity of the traveler’s will.) His response to the gift of this test is a wordlessly resounding “I accept!”

The battle with the Guardian, glimpsed at wide intervals through rips in the constantly shredding and reuniting mist, is another of SRD’s brilliant sequences of virtual cinematography; the Guardian begins the battle invisible and only Brinn’s blows bring him, by degrees, into visible reality. (Maybe someone with martial arts or Zen experience can comment on the significance of being fought into visibility; I glimpse that there are major implications in this, but can’t bring them quite into focus.)

As the combat progresses, Brinn loses successively his shirt, his skin, and much of his blood.
Linden clung to herself and fought to suppress her instinctive tears. Brinn would not survive much longer. He was already so badly injured that he might bleed to death. How could he go on fighting, with the strength running from his veins moment by moment?
Just as Brinn has taken on this test as bearing his whole people within himself, this image shows him as a microcosm of the ongoing Haruchai genocide: back in Revelstone, the strength of his nation continues to run from veins opened by the Clave, moment by moment and sun by sun.

Brinn’s opponent gains each increment of strength Brinn loses, swiftly pressing this otherworldly battle to its conclusion.
…[The Guardian] seemed to become more adept and irresistible as he grew more solid. Almost at once, he brushed aside Brinn’s counterattack. Lashing out like lightnings of flesh and bone, he coerced Brinn to the precipice again. A cunning feint toward Brinn’s abdomen lowered his arms defensively. At once, the old man followed with a hammerblow to Brinn’s forehead.
Brinn swayed on the rim, tottered. Began to fall.
Covenant’s shout tore through the mist like despair:
Brinn!”
In the fractional pause as his balance failed, Brinn glanced toward the aghast spectators. [Echoing his gaze at Covenant during the soothtell, which conveyed mind-speech that saved Covenant’s life?] Then he shifted his feet in a way that ensured his fall. But as he dropped, his hands reached out. His fingers knotted into the old man’s robe.
Surrendering himself to the precipice, he took the Guardian with him.
Facing mere death is not remotely the point of this test: every Haruchai we’ve seen does that a dozen times a day and calls it a day’s work. What is unprecedented about this battle is that Brinn cannot win it; he must first acknowledge that he cannot but lose, and then must deliberately consent to losing, in order to take the Guardian along. And he couldn’t know in advance that this is “losing to win”; Brinn must have been even more surprised than his companions when he arose alive as the Guardian on the far side of death. Since, as Fist pointed out in Hergrom and Ceer’s combat with the Sandgorgon, no Haruchai heretofore has ever considered the possibility of losing, Brinn’s losing to win represents a conceptual revolution as well as a test of physical and ascetic prowess. In the battle’s end Brinn says a resounding “MU!” (“Not this, not that!”) to the absolute either/or of “succeed or die”.
Shared pain is lessened; shared joy is increased.
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Post by SoulBiter »

WOW!! Durris that was incredible. Not just the chapter (although that was incredible in itself) but your interpretation of it. Im still not sure how you were able to compress this chapter the way you did.

I was thinking as I read this that Covenant had to be conscious of the fact that he was more than likely to fail to create a new Staff of Law, but as you said he had nothing else to cling to.
She tried again to make him understand her "Seadreamer is afraid. I think he knows what Lord Foul is doing"
He has to be thinking "Turn back? And do what? Go where?"
his features knotted once and then released as if he were about to inflict her with a smile like the once he had once given Joan
This says volumes about what he has already figured out but isnt telling anyone. At this point I realized that he KNOWS more than he is letting on.

You also said something that made me think about the battle a bit differently.. You must lose to win. When I first read the battle Im thinking that perhaps as the Guardian becomes more substantial its so that as he becomes substantial he becomes more mortal and perhaps beatable. But not so as you so eloquently explained.
Then Brinn reached the edge of the cliff. From somewhere within himself he summoned the desperation to fight back. Several blows jolted the guardian, though they left no mark. For a moment he was forced back. But he seemed to become more adept and irresistable as he grew more solid.
Thats the ticket! The harder he is hit, the harder you fight, the harder he becomes to beat. The faster you hit him, the faster he counterattacks. How do you defeat someone like that? Maybe thats how Brinn figured it out.. right there when he counterattacked he must have thought.. OK thats it! Im kickin his butt right here!! But incredulously the Guardian becomes even faster and harder. At that precise moment Brinn must have put the pieces together.
Then he shifted his feet in a way that ensured his fall.
Lose to win
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Post by danlo »

:faint: Incredible Durris, incredible!!! (say! you don't get into these books do you? I definately picked the right Haruchai for this particular dissection! 8O oy vey! :faint: )
fall far and well Pilots!
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Post by Durris »

You're too kind, both. :oops:
Shared pain is lessened; shared joy is increased.
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Post by dlbpharmd »

Outstanding, I can't wait to see what Fist, Cail et al have to say about this.

I did think that it was strange that Brinn and Cail just "showed up" to board the longboat. The first time I read this I thought "where the hell do they think they're going?" Of course no one would refuse them; they had certainly earned the right to go anywhere the Quest went, regardless of their service.

Thanks again, Durris.
Last edited by dlbpharmd on Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TOT-Chapter 24, The Isle

Post by Myste »

Durris wrote: Facing mere death is not remotely the point of this test: every Haruchai we’ve seen does that a dozen times a day and calls it a day’s work. What is unprecedented about this battle is that Brinn cannot win it; he must first acknowledge that he cannot but lose, and then must deliberately consent to losing, in order to take the Guardian along. And he couldn’t know in advance that this is “losing to win”; Brinn must have been even more surprised than his companions when he arose alive as the Guardian on the far side of death. Since, as Fist pointed out in Hergrom and Ceer’s combat with the Sandgorgon, no Haruchai heretofore has ever considered the possibility of losing, Brinn’s losing to win represents a conceptual revolution as well as a test of physical and ascetic prowess. In the battle’s end Brinn says a resounding “MU!” (“Not this, not that!”) to the absolute either/or of “succeed or die”.
Durris, this is absolutely amazing. I've never understood the Haruchai as well as I do when you dissect them. (That didn't come out exactly the way I meant it to--dissecting Haruchai would not be very nice.)

Again, I'm just trying to work out some thoughts here, inspired by Durris :D
So Brinn finds an answer to "succeed or die" by dying in order to succeed; by relinquishing the either/or, black/white nature of his people's essential world view.
Brinn’s visage remained inflexible. “I will know the truth. Any being who cannot bear the truth is indeed unworthy.”
Brinn proves his worth by bearing the truth, that he is unworthy to defeat ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol by skill alone. He must acknowledge and bear his unworth to become worthy. In that sense, his failure to resist the merewives actually aids him by giving him access to the knowledge that not everything he does is "worthy" of his people. That vulnerability may be the only thing that makes it possible for him to accept his "unworth."

The victory makes "worth" and "unworth" into the same thing--it's the answer to a paradox, like the center of Covenant's vertigo....
Halfway down the stairs Is the stair where I sit. There isn't any other stair quite like it. I'm not at the bottom, I'm not at the top; So this is the stair where I always stop.
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Post by Durris »

dlbpharmd wrote:...I can't wait to see what Fist, Cail et al have to say about this.
Hear, hear! And Mademoiselle Haruchai too.

Has anyone seen Cail? I've not read a post by him in long enough that I wonder if he's off swimming with the merewives again. :lol:
Myste wrote:I've never understood the Haruchai as well as I do when you dissect them.
Yikes. I can't say how much it means to me to hear that. *bows, not at all fractionally*

Myste, I'll respond to the rest of your post in greater detail later (it bears much rereading and pondering), but I couldn't bear not to acknowledge this at once.
Shared pain is lessened; shared joy is increased.
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Post by Seafoam Understone »

Great job Durris... a chapter worth thinking about

As one who associates heavily among the Deaf I had a strong sense of empathy for Seadreamer because of his inability to articulate exactly what's going on... not being able to express pain/horror/trauma is excruciating to any race, man, giant or even haruchai.
...she sensed Seadreamer's presence like a hand of pain cupped against her cheek. Huddling into her robe, she went forward.
She found the mute Giant sitting with his back to the foremast, facing the prow and Findail's silhouette. The small muscles around his eyes winced and tightened as he stared at Findail-and through Findail toward the One Tree-as if he were begging the Appointed to say the things which he, Sea-dreamer, could not. But Findail seemed immune to the Giant's appeal. Or perhaps such supplications were a part of the burden which he had been Appointed to bear. He also faced the prospect of the One Tree as if he feared to take his eyes from it.
Here also is something I wonder why Linden seems to be unpopular when her empathy cries out here to Seadreamer :
After a moment, she breathed, "Try." The frail sickle-moon lit none of his visage except the pale scar which underlined his gaze; the rest remained dark. "There's got to be some way."
So in panomime he tries to make her understand. I recall thinking that "this is where sign language would come in handy" But then there's something else that I haven't understood is with the Giant's "gift of tongues" wouldn't they be able to understand such language? But again would it invalidate Seadreamer's Earth-sight? The Elohim had warned Honninscrave about that.

Of course one of the FEW times Findail shows any kind of empathy is putting Seadreamer to sleep. A nice line here by the way:
His fingertips pressed gentleness onto the fate written there.
Makes me wonder if the big guy has been sleeping at all?

NICOR!
Pitchwife puts it best.
"Stone and Sea!" Pitchwife breathed softly to Linden, "I had not thought that all the seas of the Earth together contained so many such creatures. The stories of them are so scanty that one Nicor alone might account for them all. What manner of ocean is it that we have entered with such blithe ignorance?"
And I just LOVED this!
The First was standing beside him. He looked up at her as he concluded, "Yet this will be a tale to delight any child."
She did not meet his gaze; but the smile which softened her eyes was as private as the affection in his tone.
Sounds like they've been working on something together for a while now. :hearts:

Ok mushy stuff aside let testosterone take over!
I agree and disagree with the previous assessment(s) of the Haruchai's meeting the ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol (or Guardian for short).
Brinn taking the Guardian over the edge to fall to their deaths was (in this warrior's eyes anyway) a victory. Yes he died, but he took the choice of life and death away from the Guardian. If he fell and the Guardian didn't, then yes he failed, and which by the way, by dying he would not know the shame of failing... Cail might but not Brinn. Makes you wonder what the Haruchai would've thought of themselves then?
Wonder if Cail saw the Guardian first would it been him doing the fighting? It seems that Brinn was the first to spot the Guardian and thus knew it was he who would be destined to fight and find the worth of his race. A tall order but it shows (to me) that the Haruchai find themselves equal as an entire race that one of them would go and fight to discover their worth.
As a Martial Artist I adhere to the (personal) philosophy that I have nothing to prove to anyone except to myself. Here with the Haruchai it seems the same but it is judged by his peers. By that they judge themselves as a people. Brinn's victory gave the other Haruchai a new standard by which to measure themselves.
Korik's pre-mission fight in the bowels of Revelstone provides insight to this.
Spoiler
and later in WGW Cail fighting the other Haruchai outside the cave in the rain
What's also very familiar is before this happened (Brinn and the Guardian) that the longboat was trying to reach the Isle... but couldn't... I've either read about it before or saw it in some movie... very familiar just can't remember where... anyone? anyone?.. bueller?
remember the Oath Of Peace!

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Post by Haruchai »

Great dissection Durris. :D
…[The Guardian] seemed to become more adept and irresistible as he grew more solid. Almost at once, he brushed aside Brinn’s counterattack. Lashing out like lightnings of flesh and bone, he coerced Brinn to the precipice again. A cunning feint toward Brinn’s abdomen lowered his arms defensively. At once, the old man followed with a hammerblow to Brinn’s forehead.
Brinn swayed on the rim, tottered. Began to fall.
Covenant’s shout tore through the mist like despair:
“Brinn!”
In the fractional pause as his balance failed, Brinn glanced toward the aghast spectators. [Echoing his gaze at Covenant during the soothtell, which conveyed mind-speech that saved Covenant’s life?] Then he shifted his feet in a way that ensured his fall. But as he dropped, his hands reached out. His fingers knotted into the old man’s robe.
Surrendering himself to the precipice, he took the Guardian with him.
"A hammerblow to Brinn's forehead" owch. Poor Brinn. I wonder what Cail would of been feeling? Would he have been a bit jealous do you think? Or would he have just been too engrossed in the fight?
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Post by Durris »

I didn't quote SRD's description of Cail's expression as he watched the battle; from it, though, I don't think there was any room at all left in Cail for envy.

I don't know whether Brinn was still able to be in telepathic contact with Cail during the battle--it might well have been too distracting to do so. But even if Cail couldn't actually transmit it, I imagine he was trying to hurl all his own life force into Brinn in the hope of turning the battle's outcome. "At the center of the world at the end of Time" the distinction between I and Thou would have vanished. Certainly Cail responds to Brinn's victory later as though it belongs to them both.
Spoiler
(Though I hadn't thought of it, this experience must have made Cail's return to his compatriots in WGW especially painful by contrast--in the combat a few days' journey from Revelstone Cail falls back into his own individuality and finds it judged wanting.)
Shared pain is lessened; shared joy is increased.
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Post by danlo »

Very good takes on Cail in the last three posts!
Spoiler
very astute spoiler point as well!
fall far and well Pilots!
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Post by Fist and Faith »

I can’t concentrate enough to read this thread until I say what’s on my mind, so let me do that first. :) Let me explain this fight. *sigh* Or at least try. I very clearly know what I'm trying to say, but it doesn't look as clear when I read what I've written. Ah well...
“And it is said, should ever one of the Haruchai seek out ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol and contest with him, we will learn the measure of our worth, in defeat or triumph.”
To understand this statement, and the fight, it is absolutely essential that we remember that the Haruchai do not have the same values as us. At least not all of them. They judge themselves differently. We cannot hope to understand what is happening if we think in terms of our own cultures, and if we judge Brinn by our own standards.

The ultimate standard of the Haruchai is (heh) Faith. They are certain, beyond any doubt, that they can accomplish whatever it is they’re attempting, with nothing but their own persons. (Their Fists :)) The Giants have this same Faith, but they express it in other ways. Like building something like Revelstone. The Haruchai express their Faith in fighting.

But more than this, their Faith is a driving will to accomplish what they set out to do, no matter the cost; to run the course. We see this every day, as they risk, and nonchalantly lose, their lives defending their companions. They will not give up, or give in, or fall short. If they are alive, they are fighting.

So, that’s the basic idea, the Haruchai value that we cannot forget. It means more to them than life, than love, than anything.

Back to the quote above. If Brinn had said, “And it is said, should ever one of the Haruchai seek out ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol and contest with him, we will learn the measure of our worth,” we would have assumed that defeat meant they were not worthy, and triumph meant they were. There’s no need to say the words in defeat or triumph. It’s understood. But Brinn did continued with in defeat or triumph. Why? He wasn’t saying that his defeat or triumph would determine his, and all Haruchai, worthiness, he was saying that the outcome was irrelevant. “We’ll learn the measure of our worth whether I win or lose.” The fight with ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol is the ultimate example of: It’s not whether you win or lose, it’s how you play the game. Will you give up? Will you quit? At what point will you say, “OK, I’ve had enough. I’m done.”

Nobody, no thing, no Haruchai, knows what a Haruchai is capable of more than ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol. He can see Brinn’s little finger twitch, and it tells him how much longer Brinn can remain conscious. He knows if Brinn is punching as hard, kicking as fast, enduring as much pain, as he can, or if he’s merely doing what a normal human would consider an extraordinary job. You can’t fool ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol. And so, he pushes Brinn. This is the way of the test. He pushes and pushes and pushes, knowing exactly how much Brinn can take, and how much Brinn can give. And if Brinn doesn't take and give to his absolute limit, he'll kill Brinn. That's the way the test works.

Remember also that Brinn never hurt ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol. He made him “more solid,” and “created his opponent out of nothingness.” Could it be that Brinn had to make him entirely solid before actual damage could be inflicted? I like the idea, but, even at the end of the fight, when ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol was "fully substantial," he still “seemed to become more adept and irresistible...” As Brinn “was receiving punishment beyond measure,” ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol was perfectly fresh and ready to go!!! THIS was Brinn’s test! ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol could have killed Brinn not too long after the fight began. Can we possibly doubt that ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol, the perfect Haruchai, completely free of injury, having knocked Brinn, whose feet were lacerated and entire body was bloody or beaten, to the ground, couldn’t break his back if he truly wanted to? Puh-lease! He could have snapped Brinn like a twig. But he didn’t. What he did was give Brinn the choice: I know what the limit of your body is at this instant, and if you do not do go to that limit, and do what you must, I will break your back! OOOOHHHH yeah, it was gonna hurt! It was going to cause damage that, if Brinn lived after the fight, might never heal properly. But it could be done. He could throw himself bodily over these razor-shards, cutting himself to ribbons, but he’d avoid the broken back, and be able to continue fighting.

That’s the test. Will Brinn say, “Enough. I have fought long and hard, I have endured punishment beyond measure. I have done my people proud. Proud enough, anyway. After all, what more could they ask of me? I fought the good fight. Now I long for the peace of death.”? Or will he “utterly abandon” himself, staying beyond the reach of such thoughts, not thinking at all, keeping the Faith? We have our answer. Brinn fights. While his brain is able to tell his limbs to move, he fights. He fights to his limits, and even beyond. The Westron Mountains will tremble from this tale forever. Brinn showed the Haruchai the measure of their worth, and it is absolute. “We are still everything we have been, everything we hoped we are.” They can’t learn this in any other way. There’s no other test for them. They can’t be tested like this against a Stonedowner, because they can’t lose. They can’t be tested like this against a Sandgorgon, because the Sandgorgon doesn’t force them to reach every limit they have, it just breaks them to pieces. ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol is the only way they can know if they still have their Faith.

And the icing on the cake? Brinn won! Or at least it was a draw. Which is as much as could possibly be expected. No Haruchai could possibly defeat the perfect fighter when this fighter seemed to be unhurtable. (And, at best, could only be hurt after first being made solid enough to hurt. By which point, you were near death.)


(I don't know... I've stayed silent on this thread WAAAAAY too long, so I don't want to rewrite it again, even though I'm not sure I've said it right.)
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
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Durris
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Post by Durris »

yikes.
Spoiler
Now I'm going to have to reread the ritual combat in "The Defenders of the Land." It's going to parse completely differently after this. As will Covenant's end, which was inspired by Brinn's example! The perfect self-disregard with no reservations you're describing here, Fist, is the complete backwards of Covenant's leper's caution--toward bodily and moral hazards--at the beginning of the first series.
Shared pain is lessened; shared joy is increased.
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Seafoam Understone
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Post by Seafoam Understone »

Fist, the way you described it made it all the more heroic by our standards. I can see where you're going with it and am with you on it. It does make sense for the Haruchai to do it that way and to see it that way. The fight to a draw? Hmm, and I said that Brinn won because he took the possibility of the Guardian taking his life out of the Guardian's hands. I read so many analogies with your post and many of them sounded familiar.
As a Martial Artist I read a lot into your post and again nodded agreement as enthusiastically as Amok. Such extravangance is not for us mere mortals. The harshness of the Haruchai's home environment leads them to such measures, this we all have discovered and agreed (?) via dissection.
From Gilden Fire and
Spoiler
Cail's fight with the other Haruchai in the rain in WGW's Defender's of the Land chapter
it shows us the measure of their extremity and judgement. They fight one another to show their worth. Survival of the fittest mentality.
Win or lose it would judge all Haruchai as it would seem that all Haruchai are the same mold. Thus if one is flawed all are. It would seem as well that the mental connection of the race helps them maintain that mold.
So what happened with Cail being away from them after Brinn's transformation? Probably had time to develop his own sense of self worth.
Spoiler
Also possiblity after re-connecting with the others when he got in range (?) he kept that new knowledge for himself and at the end of his "service" returned to the merewives. :?: :?:
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Post by danlo »

In The Killing Stroke Argoyne says:
"Your skill surpasses me," he told the nerisi-ga, echoing her certainty. "But your will does not. No man's choice exceeds another's. You cannot make me other than I am."

Slowly he spread his arms wide, closing his eyes as he did so.

"Here I stand," he said, "unguarded. Strike me, if that is your wish. Your blow is mine. The victory is mine. If I have chosen to die, you cannot kill me. Any blow of yours can only carry out my will."
fall far and well Pilots!
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Post by Fist and Faith »

Niiice :D
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
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Post by tonyz »

Unfortunately, it doesn't _stop_ them from killing you...
Choiceless, you were given the power of choice. I elected you for the Land but did not compel you to serve my purpose in the Land... Only thus could I preserve the integrity of my creation.
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Post by matrixman »

BRAVO, Fist! :Hail:

Your explanation of Brinn's battle with the Guardian is fantastic! You've given me a clear sense of the meaning of the fight, of the grand test ak-Haru laid out for the Haruchai:
Brinn showed the Haruchai the measure of their worth, and it is absolute. “We are still everything we have been, everything we hoped we are.” They can’t learn this in any other way. There’s no other test for them. They can’t be tested like this against a Stonedowner, because they can’t lose. They can’t be tested like this against a Sandgorgon, because the Sandgorgon doesn’t force them to reach every limit they have, it just breaks them to pieces. ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol is the only way they can know if they still have their Faith.
I hadn't considered that before. I see the light now, Fist. :idea:
Durris wrote:

Findail stood facing the Isle. His mien and hair were dry, untouched by the mist. He held his arms folded across his chest as if the sea were gripped motionless in the crooks of his elbows. The focus of his eyes was as intent as an act of will.



This seems to be one of SRD’s similes that states the exact thing that’s happening under the guise of a figure of speech. Somehow Findail seems to bring about what happens next (help me out, kinfolk: his doing so seems both important and inexplicable).
Good ol' sneaky Findail. Was he maybe calling out to the Guardian? What is the relationship between the Guardian of the One Tree and the Elohim?

Did Findail put the thought of the Guardian in the Haruchai's heads? How did they know the Guardian was present? I'm assuming Brinn "felt" the presence of the Guardian before actually seeing him, which would have confirmed in the Haruchai's mind that this being was indeed ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol.
dlbpharmd wrote:I did think that it was strange that Brinn and Cail just "showed up" to board the longboat. The first time I read this I thought "where the hell do they think they're going?"
Maybe they went along because they had a hunch that they might encounter ak-Haru?
Spoiler
In chapter 2 of WGW, Findail explains to Covenant that it was Berek himself who had put the Guardian in place. Wouldn't Berek have mentioned the Guardian to the Lords after him? He had no reason to omit such information.
So, let's say the Guardian's existence is known to the Old Lords and that knowledge is passed down. We come to Kevin. Suppose he mentions the Guardian and the Bloodguard overhear it. (Hey, they overheard him mumbling the "Power of Command" didn't they?) So the Guardian becomes known to the Bloodguard. Everything the Bloodguard know, the rest of the Haruchai know. The old tellers pass it down through the millenia...and here we are at the Isle of the One Tree. The Haruchai connect the dots (Guardian + legend of ak-Haru) and figure they should join the party just in case.

But if the Haruchai knew about the Guardian/ak-Haru beforehand, that would defeat their rule that they could only find ak-Haru by not knowing that they were looking for him. Okay, maybe my lame bit of speculation is going nowhere, but I can't be bothered to redo it all. Please feel free to shoot it down. :roll:
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Post by Seafoam Understone »

Hey! Spoiler that Matrixman... it's one of the things I discuss in my upcoming dissection of WGW... geez man... heh heh (j/k). ;)
Spoiler
In WGW Findail does indeed confirm the placement of the Guardian by Berek
I was wondering if the Guardian was a Haruchai bound by some other type of vow ... but it doesn't make sense at this point because while Brinn and Cail (loved dlbpharmd's question of "where the hell do they think they're going?" btw) may have recoginized the Guardian as the ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol and the question arose as did they sense him. Was there that Haruchai's mental connection going on? I mean who else could face and fight equally a Haruchai but another Haruchai? As far as Findail planting the suggestion into their heads? Ehh, I don't think so. I mean the Elohim kicked those guys outta the party back home so why would he (Findail) have anything to do with them now?
Spoiler
So now we get deep. Since Kevin was the first of the Old Lords to "meet" the Haruchai and accept their service as Bloodguard... where did THIS guy come from and how did he hook up with Berek?
Spoiler
Here's another brain fryer for ya. How did Berek get to the Isle Of The One Tree anyway? Were there a connection between Giants and people of the Land back then? Or did the people of the Land (way back when) have sea-lore or sea-craft? Hmmm... to be discussed later
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Post by Fist and Faith »

Like I said, since I couldn't read anything about the fight through the jumble of words and images in my mind, I made my first post in this thread before reading yours. And I've finally gotten back in here to read. :D
Durris wrote:And shortly the stakes on not allowing Brinn are raised.
The Haruchai had gripped the First’s blade in one hand. Against her great strength, he strove to thrust the iron away from his throat. Blood coursed down his forearm as the longsword bit his flesh; but his determination did not waver. In a moment, he would sever his fingers if the First did not relent. …Cursing under her breath [in Giantish or Haruchai? With the gift of tongues, she was equally fluent in both!], the First withdrew her sword. “You are mad.” She was hoarse with emotion. “I will not accept [the inverse of Tan-Haruchail] the burden of your maiming or death in this way.”
Amid the moral and physical horror of this battle of wills I must confess to a certain exaltation: this has got to be the apotheosis of Haruchai stubbornness seen anywhere in the mythos. Plainly whatever Brinn wants to do is, to say the least, not an idle whim.
:D :D :D OOOOHHHHH yeah! The meaning of the lives of the Haruchai is, literally, in sight!!! There's NO chance he's not going to find out what it is! (Not unlike Rob Roy, who was entirely willing to suffer the same injury for an equally important cause.)
Durris wrote:I was all ready to write about the paradox of “knows without knowledge and has not come seeking the thing he seeks,” so like the paradox of white gold. But just typing this quote has left me speechless and proseless. This chapter and the previous one reveal the molten core beneath the dispassionate Haruchai surface; reading them is like watching a volcanic eruption shattering a glacier.
VERY nicely said!! :D
Durris wrote:Just as Brinn has taken on this test as bearing his whole people within himself, this image shows him as a microcosm of the ongoing Haruchai genocide: back in Revelstone, the strength of his nation continues to run from veins opened by the Clave, moment by moment and sun by sun.
*suppresses a chill* 8O Wow! Nice juxtaposition!!!!
Durris wrote:Brinn’s losing to win represents a conceptual revolution as well as a test of physical and ascetic prowess. In the battle’s end Brinn says a resounding “MU!” (“Not this, not that!”) to the absolute either/or of “succeed or die”.
I love your use of MU here! :D But, as my take on the fight says, I hear him using it this way: "You're asking the wrong question. I'm not trying to succeed or die, because I can do both. Winning is not how I'll prove my (our) worth."
Durris wrote:I don't know whether Brinn was still able to be in telepathic contact with Cail during the battle--it might well have been too distracting to do so. But even if Cail couldn't actually transmit it, I imagine he was trying to hurl all his own life force into Brinn in the hope of turning the battle's outcome. "At the center of the world at the end of Time" the distinction between I and Thou would have vanished. Certainly Cail responds to Brinn's victory later as though it belongs to them both.
The only time we've actually seen into Haruchai telepathy, it was actual conversation in GILDEN-FIRE. I'm sure Brinn wasn't involved in that kind of thing during the fight, but we can't know that their telepathy didn't have other aspects.
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
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