WGW - Chapter 3 - The Path to Pain

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WGW - Chapter 3 - The Path to Pain

Post by wayfriend »

My pain
is self-chosen.
-- Layne Staley


You know how it is when you want to get someplace really fast, when your mind is already on what you're going to do when you get there, and you've already mentally moved beyond the whole trip -- and that's when you get behind the octogenarian driver ... driving a dumptruck ... uphill ...

That's what reading this chapter,
The Path To Pain, can be like, the first time you read it (and, for that matter, the second time, the third time etc.). You're done with aftermathing the Isle of the One Tree, and you're ready for some exciting stuff to start happening again. You'd like nothing better than the author to write
Three months later, under a sun of pestilence, the Search stood before Revelstone, ready to kick some
but he doesn't. It's going to be a while – tension needs to be tautened, fears need to be fed, dilemnas need to be exacerbated, and more cornstarch needs to be thrown into the plot as it simmers a bit longer.

There are no unimportant chapters;
The Path to Pain is no exception. So let's restrain ourselves and take a closer look.

As we open, Covenant has just finished speaking with Linden, and he emerges on the deck somewhat restored from having made some forward-facing decisions.

He has Honninscrave on his mind; he wants to set things right between them. His refusal to release Seadreamer with wild magic has left a nub on his conscience. But he is balked in a manner that must seem all too usual to Covenant.
But when he approached Honninscrave and the other two Giants with him, Sevinhand Anchormaster and a steersman holding Shipsheartthew, the caution in their eyes stopped Covenant.
but it becomes clear that the Giant's just don't think Honninscrave can bear it right now. It’s somewhat telling that Covenant takes a hint.

But then something unexpected happens. Cail approaches the Master.
Without preamble, he said, "Grimmand Honninscrave, in the name of my people I desire your pardon. When Brinn assayed himself against ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol - he who is the sovereign legend and dream of all the Haruchai among the mountains - it was not his intent to bring about the death of Cable Seadreamer your brother."
Cail? Intent?

There are several surprises here. The Haruchai are not reknown for their apologies, nor their sensitivity to others. And it's somewhat startling to consider that Brinn may have been somewhat culpable for Seadreamer's demise.

Earlier, it was stated by Findail that Brinn’s combat with the Guardian had aroused the Worm, made it aware of the company's approach, restless. That was the only way - plans were laid ages ago so that it could be the only way. Brinn was eager for that combat. But the death of Seadreamer could not have been predicted or avoided. And approach was necessary. So the Giant's demise was a side effect of a necessary action. Indeed, that is what Cail's words make clear: “The sovereign legend and dream of all the Haruchai.” Brinn had other things on his mind.

But is Cail apologizing to Honninscrave -- or declaring that the Haruchai are without fault in the matter? Probably the latter. Haruchai succeed, or Haruchai fail, but Haruchai don’t make allowances or excuses.


Covenant gets what he seeks after all: this brings Honninscrave forward, and he speaks to both Cail and Covenant.
After a moment, Honninscrave lifted his voice over the wet splashing of the shipside. "The Earth-Sight is not a thing which any Giant selects for himself. No choice is given. But, we do not therefore seek to gainsay or eschew it. We believe - or have believed” he said with a touch of bitterness, "- that there is life as well as death in such mysteries. How then should there be any blame in what has happened?" Honninscrave spoke more to himself than to Covenant or Cail. "The Earth-Sight came upon Cable Seadreamer my brother, and the hurt of his vision was plain to all. But the content of that hurt he could not tell. Mayhap his muteness was made necessary by the vision itself. Mayhap for him no denial of death was possible which would not also have been a denial of life. I know nothing of that. I know only that he could not speak his plight - and so he could not be saved. There is no blame for us in this." He spoke as though he believed what he was saying; but the loss knotted around his eyes contradicted him.

"His death places no burden upon us but the burden of hope." The sunset was fading from the west and from his face, translating his mien from crimson to the pallor of ashes. "We must hope that in the end we will find means to vindicate his passing. To vindicate," he repeated faintly, "and to comprehend." He did not look at his auditors. The dying of the light echoed out of his eyes. "I am grieved that I can conceive no hope."
No hope? A Giant?

But Covenant blames himself for Honninscrave’s misery, and his complex self-recriminations are hungry for sustenance.
He had earned the right to be left alone. But Covenant needed an answer. He and Foamfollower had talked about hope. Striving to keep his voice gentle in spite of his own stiff hurt, he asked, "Then why do you go on?"

For a long moment, Honninscrave remained still against the mounting dark as if he had not heard, could not be reached. But at last he said simply, "I am a Giant. The Master of Starfare's Gem, and sworn to the service of the First of the Search. That is preferable."

Ah, Honninscrave! You are headed down the path to pain.

Honninscrave’s soliloquy begins along a course that seems rather Giantish – he speaks of the unity of death and life, and of blamelessness when steering between them. He would seem the large-hearted Giant, if his eyes did not give him away.

But then he changes tack. He speaks of vindication for those whom are lost to a cause. This is very Covenantish, is it not? Maybe Covenant is rubbing off on him. Have any other characters ever spoken of vindication in this way?

And then he speaks of hope - hope is of course a major theme in this story. Hope is supposed to come from service; does this mean that Honninscrave serves nothing now? Or that what he serves has no value? Or that his service is valueless itself? So it’s no surprise that his next statement is about service. And when he remarks that he serves Starfare’s Gem, he does so rather offhandishly one must admit. In light of his stated hopelessness, one has to wonder how whole-hearted this service will be.

And finally, “that is preferable” - the alternative remaining unstated. What other course does he hint at? Certainly, it will be a unilateral one. Honninscrave might soon be considering casting his anchor upon the rock once again.


With Honninscrave’s plight draped about him, Covenant takes a tour of the dromond, a rather grim tour, one which visits each and every other concern which weighs on him, Honninscrave already accounted for.

· Cail, unwontedly alone.

· The crippled Giantship.

· The opposing question marks of Vain and Findail.

· The First, long denied constructive action.

· Her husband Pitchwife, who worries less about the quest and more about the questors.

· Linden, set adrift by Covenant’s betrayal.

· Mistweave, a Giant contemplating a Haruchai’s shoes.

What do you do when you’re done with wallowing in despair? You get your act together and you move on. And the first step in doing this is: take a good look around, and make a frank and realistic inventory of what your problems are.

That almost seems to be what the author is doing in these passages. In a few pages, we have reviewed and assessed all of the major features of Covenant’s tale as it stands at this time.

This, then, is the turning point. We’ve stopped the decline which the Isle of the One Tree tipped us down, and we begin to climb again.


The Giantship is on it’s way back to the Land. But no sooner has the journey begun than it falls into crisis – a heavy, freezing wind that blows the dromond straight into danger.

Covenant and Linden spend the next significant part of this journey being cold. Fortunately, the Giants are as immune to cold as to fire – but Covenant and Linden can only huddle in the galley near the stove, becoming more acquainted with Seasauce and Hearthcoal the cooks.

It is now a time of trial for all the crew. It’s so cold the ship becomes enshrouded in ice. The decks are covered in ice, the lines are encased in ice, the canvas is weighted with ice - and the wind blows without relief. Only constant and skilled attention keeps the dromond from disaster. And because the wind is so strong, and the ship is so maimed, there is no choice but to let the wind drive them where it will.

Irredeemably, Starfare’s Gem sails along a path to pain …

The next section of the chapter, about 7 pages, describes the plight of the Giantship, and of the Search. There are enough descriptions of cold, and cold seafaring, to establish the atmosphere for the remainder of the chapter, as well as the next three.

Of Giants, the author writes: “Impervious to fire if not to pain, they were also proof against cold.” The Giants who go out into the freeze to tend the ship may be safe, but they probably feel the icy pain just as we would. And they can endure colder conditions, for longer, than we could survive to describe. So as you reads these pages, as cold as you might feel, you probably can’t even imagine how cold those Giant’s must be. Brrr!


… and it lashes them into the Soulbiter.

Each and every visit to the Soulbiter is something new. And this time is no exception.

The wind stops – stops! - and, amid icebergs, the Search comes to a halt, as if to award the passengers and crew the best possible view of what is to happen next.
“It appears that we are here.”
Covenant and Linden leave the galley and join the other Giants on the deck, to learn what the Soulbiter has become for this encounter. Slowly, the Search comes under the spell of the ice; eventually everyone aboard the dromond ends up standing mutely at the rail, Cail the Haruchai becoming enchanted last.

The author is very consistent in his treatment of cold. There are other passages, earlier in TPTP, and later in WGW, which compare similarly. Cold is always linked with sopor, enchantment, and snares.

Before their eyes, sailors, marooned, destitute, piteous, drift by on an iceberg. They call for help, but, spellbound, no one on the dromond replies, although it tears at their hearts.

The next chunk of ice is more familiar; on it, Hergrom and Ceer battle a sandgorgon. Ceer hails the vessel – and still no one moves.

And then … Seadreamer. Alone. Adrift. Alive.

Worse, Seadreamer speaks.
"My people," he said in a voice as quiet and extreme as the cold, "you must succor me. This is the Soulbiter. Here suffer all the damned who have died in a false cause, unaided by those they sought to serve. If you will not reach out to me, I must stand here forever in my anguish, and the ice will not release me. Hear me; you whom I have loved to this cost. Is there no love left in you for me?"
False cause? To this cost? Damned?!?!

We cusp here.
In pain and dismay, Covenant moved. With a curse that splintered the silence, he burned his hands off the rail. Wild magic pulsed through him like the hot ichor of grief: white fire burst out of his ring like rage. "We're going to lose him!" he howled at the Giants. "Get a rope!"

An instant later, the First wrenched herself free. Her iron voice rang across the Giantship: "No!"

Jerking toward the mooring of a nearby ratline, she snatched up one of the belaying-pins. "Avaunt, demon!" she yelled. "We will not hear you!"

Fierce with fury and revulsion, she hurled the pin straight at Seadreamer.

The Giants gaped as her projectile flashed through him.

It struck a chip from the edge of the ice and skipped away into the sea, splashing distinctly. At once, his form wavered. He tried to speak again; but already he had dissolved into mirage. The floe drifted emptily away toward the south.
And thus the Soulbiter is defeated.

There you have it – the dramatic action in this chapter is the First throwing a stick.

The Dead of the Soulbiter are among the author’s least compelling antagonists, and their threat is rather weak. While they are treated seriously, they are not given much depth (nameless ur-viles and cavewights are illustrated more sympathetically) and they do not have much effect, giving credence to the idea that they are only a means to a specific story-telling end – discussed below.

If Seadreamer’s spectre were truly significant, then the author would have invested this passage with a thorough narration of Honninscrave’s response.

So is it worthwhile to try to understand why Seadreamer proclaims his cause as false, or his fellow prisoners as unaided, or damned? Chalk it up as nothing more than unsophisticated lies thrown out there by the Soulbiter, and give them no further thought.

There are some marginal points for consideration.

First, Covenant’s response awakens the wild magic. In light of recent events, there would need to be an extreme reason. Perhaps the appearance of Seadreamer slips past his defenses and re-awakens his guilt about refusing Honninscrave. If so, then this remains a repressed concern.

Next, consider that the primary cause of the First’s action was not Seadreamer’s appearance, but the wild magic’s. The First is finally roused by the threat which Covenant encompasses, and she tackles the problem quickly and correctly. Covenant may be graced, but he is also blessed, with capable friends.

Finally … there is no Memla out on the ice, no Nassic, no Marid. Only those who have been lost since Coercri. Perhaps this reflects that this is a danger directed at everyone aboard Starfare’s Gem, and not specifically at Covenant, or anyone else. In which case, maybe the marooned sailors are known to the crew of the dromond – but if so, why are they “human” and “men”?


The Soulbiter has one last card to play. Like a spoiled child who tips the board when they lose a game, the gale returns, instantly and dramatically. Starfare’s Gem must avoid the floating ice or perish as it is once more hurled forward.

And that’s when Linden faints.

It is Linden’s swoon which sets up the action in the next chapter, actions which renew and enlarge the threat to Covenant’s ring, and set him squarely on a path to pain.

Could it be that everything in this latest visit to the Soulbiter happens solely to have Linden fall thus? There is little to argue against it.
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Post by dlbpharmd »

Holy Cow - for someone so new to the Watch, you sure know how to dissect!
But is Cail apologizing to Honninscrave -- or declaring that the Haruchai are without fault in the matter? Probably the latter. Haruchai succeed, or Haruchai fail, but Haruchai don’t make allowances or excuses.
While Cail certainly does want Honninscrave to know that Brinn's actions were not directly responsible for Seadreamer's death, Cail does feel sorrow, IMO. Any Haruchai would give their life to save a Giant. What did Brinn say in TWL? "Giant, you are not alone."
Mistweave, a Giant contemplating a Haruchai’s shoes.
What beautiful imagery.
The next chunk of ice is more familiar; on it, Hergrom and Ceer battle a sandgorgon. Ceer hails the vessel – and still no one moves.
And we have to relive one of the most painful moments in the entire Chronicles.
"My people," he said in a voice as quiet and extreme as the cold, "you must succor me. This is the Soulbiter. Here suffer all the damned who have died in a false cause, unaided by those they sought to serve. If you will not reach out to me, I must stand here forever in my anguish, and the ice will not release me. Hear me; you whom I have loved to this cost. Is there no love left in you for me?"
Heartbreakingly beautiful prose - "you whom I have loved to this cost."
First, Covenant’s response awakens the wild magic. In light of recent events, there would need to be an extreme reason. Perhaps the appearance of Seadreamer slips past his defenses and re-awakens his guilt about refusing Honninscrave. If so, then this remains a repressed concern.
Sorry, I lost you here. Are you saying that at this point Covenant needs some kind of emotional trigger? That would not be consistent with his envenomed state, would it?
Finally … there is no Memla out on the ice, no Nassic, no Marid. Only those who have been lost since Coercri. Perhaps this reflects that this is a danger directed at everyone aboard Starfare’s Gem, and not specifically at Covenant, or anyone else. In which case, maybe the marooned sailors are known to the crew of the dromond – but if so, why are they “human” and “men”?
You know, I never noticed this - excellent!
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Post by wayfriend »

dlbpharmd wrote:
First, Covenant’s response awakens the wild magic. In light of recent events, there would need to be an extreme reason. Perhaps the appearance of Seadreamer slips past his defenses and re-awakens his guilt about refusing Honninscrave. If so, then this remains a repressed concern.
Sorry, I lost you here. Are you saying that at this point Covenant needs some kind of emotional trigger? That would not be consistent with his envenomed state, would it?
Let me see if I can reword this: I think that at this point Covenant would not intentionally choose to use the ring for any reason. However, if something were to happen that would induce an emotional response - an unthinking, unconscious, unplanned response - he might use his ring before he thought about it. I think that is what happened here. I think Seadreamer's appearance touched something deep in Covenant so that the wild magic came out before there was any volition. If you accept this, then it follows that Seadreamer is a topic which touches Covenant very deeply.
Spoiler
Of course, this happens again in the next chapter, too. And the consequences of this will be explored.
Covenant is the wild magic. When it is a matter of heart and soul, it cannot be denied. At least, that's how I think about it.
And we have to relive one of the most painful moments in the entire Chronicles.
Really?!?! I'm not in agreement, in case it didn't come across.
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Post by Haruchai »

Wow, great job Wayfriend!!


dlbpharmd wrote:

The next chunk of ice is more familiar; on it, Hergrom and Ceer battle a sandgorgon. Ceer hails the vessel – and still no one moves.


And we have to relive one of the most painful moments in the entire Chronicles.
:( Yes, very sad.

I thought this part with the dead appearing on the ice was very sad. I thought that the dead were no so much the actual ghosts, but more (I'm having a hard time wording this) reflecting the guilt that the people on the dromond felt. It is called the "Soulbiter," so I always thought that it somehow could "see" into your soul, so that it would know how to hurt you the most.

That is sort of what I am trying to say. Feel free to pick this to pieces.
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Post by danlo »

Wayfriend wrote:Linden, set adrift by Covenant's betrayal.
Ay! More despair, despair everywhere! Everytime I encounter this chapter the mantra of "Who are the lost men?" rings in my head for days... :?

A truly outstanding effort my friend!!!!!! :D
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Post by dlbpharmd »

And we have to relive one of the most painful moments in the entire Chronicles.
Really?!?! I'm not in agreement, in case it didn't come across.
I was referring to the death of Hergrom as being one of the most painful moments.
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Post by tonyz »

I, too, find the Soulbiter a little bit lacking as an opponent.

I also find the geography a little weird -- they sail from the desert of the <i>Bhraithair</i> to the Isle of the One Tree, a voyage of not too long a time, and suddenly they're in the arctic north? Doesn't quite compute, unless you think they're sailing on the seas of Faerie or something.

(One also wonders why, if the land of the Elohim is so near _Coercri_ -- a matter of what, eight to ten days' sail -- the Giants of Home did not find the Lost far earlier?)

Oh, well, the geography of everything outside the Land is very vague, probably intentionally so... back to this chapter.

The title, I think, is important: <i>The Path to Pain</i>. We may be starting on the upswing from the failure of the Quest, but we can already tell it's not going to be an easy path (and the pain is going to get a whole lot worse...).

I think Cail really is apologizing. True,not really a <i>Haruchai</i> thing. But then Brinn's success wasn't supposed to lead to this. I'm not sure if the <i>Haruchai</i> ever considered what would happen _after_ their test.

They're learning; it's not just service and not just excellence that they must know. They have to figure out what comes after both of those are achieved and known, when they have served utterly, served successfully and to their utmost, when they have achieved all that they have ever dreamed or known -- what then?

Apparently it includes being able to give apologies, which I think is a good sign.
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Post by matrixman »

A very coolly analytical summary, Wayfriend. You certainly have your own style of doing things. :)
more cornstarch needs to be thrown into the plot as it simmers a bit longer.
Haha! As long as the plot doesn't get too stiff from the starch, eh? :wink:
There are several surprises here. The Haruchai are not reknown for their apologies, nor their sensitivity to others.
Is Cail's speech to Honninscrave the first direct instance we see of a Haruchai demonstrating compassion? Or is that the wrong word to use?

(Well, maybe the Bloodguard Thomin's killing of Lord Verement to prevent the Lord's humiliation at the hands of Fleshharrower in TIW could also be considered an act of compassion.)

There is a neat parallel between Honninscrave's scene with Covenant here and Foamfollower's scene with Covenant in LFB. Here, Honninscrave broods over the loss of Seadreamer; in LFB, Foamfollower broods over the loss of Home. Also, both scenes take place against the melancholy of the setting sun, with both Giants facing it.

From LFB:
During Foamfollower's tale the sun had declined into late afternoon; and as he finished, sunset began on the horizon. Then the Soulsease ran out of the west with fiery, orange-gold glory reflected flame for flame in its burnished countenance. In the fathomless heavens the fire radiated both loss and prophecy, coming night and promised day, darkness which would pass; for when the true end of day and light came, there would be no blazonry to make it admirable, no spectacle or fine fire or joy, nothing for the heart to behold but decay and gray ashes.

Foamfollower's head was held high, with wet streaks of gleaming gold-orange fire drawn delicately down his cheeks. As Covenant watched, the reflected light took on a reddish shade and began to fade.
From WGW:
The setting sun gave his visage a tinge of sacrificial glory. Watching him, Covenant thought obscurely that the sun always set in the west--that a man who faced west would never see anything except decline, things going down, the last beauty before light and life went out.

The sunset was fading from the west and from his face, translating his mien from crimson to the pallor of ashes...The dying of the light echoed out of his eyes.
Maybe there's cosmic significance to those words, maybe not. But the feeling of darkness and the end of things gives me a chill, in view of the possibilities of the upcoming Last Chronicles.
Wayfriend wrote:Of Giants, the author writes: “Impervious to fire if not to pain, they were also proof against cold.” The Giants who go out into the freeze to tend the ship may be safe, but they probably feel the icy pain just as we would. And they can endure colder conditions, for longer, than we could survive to describe. So as you reads these pages, as cold as you might feel, you probably can’t even imagine how cold those Giant’s must be. Brrr!
As a certain smuggler in some movie said: "I don't know...I can imagine quite a bit." I first read WGW in the depths of winter, so there was plenty of windchill around to help put me in the right frame of mind for these opening chapters. Brrr indeed! (we need a shivering emoticon) :)
Haruchai wrote:I thought this part with the dead appearing on the ice was very sad. I thought that the dead were no so much the actual ghosts, but more (I'm having a hard time wording this) reflecting the guilt that the people on the dromond felt. It is called the "Soulbiter," so I always thought that it somehow could "see" into your soul, so that it would know how to hurt you the most.
Haruchai, I never realized that connection before! It makes a lot of sense to me, now that you've made me think about it.

For me, the "revisitation" of the Sandgorgon and the Haruchai was definitely the most mesmerizing and eerie scene of the Soulbiter, probably because of the complete incongruity of the image: the memory of hot, arid combat turned into ice and cold death. Ceer's call for help must have hit Linden particularly hard.
tonyz wrote:(One also wonders why, if the land of the Elohim is so near _Coercri_ -- a matter of what, eight to ten days' sail -- the Giants of Home did not find the Lost far earlier?)
That has bugged me, too. I had reasoned that since the Giants were supposed to be such eager and skilled travellers of the seas, they should have managed to circumnavigate their world after all these thousands of years, in the process bumping into the Land (like the Unhomed). In the One Tree discussions, kastenessen suggested that perhaps Giants did see the Land in the intervening years between the 1st and 2nd Chronicles, but only saw the inhospitable coastline of the Spoiled Plains and the Great Swamp, so they decided not to bother investigating such unfriendly terrain. This, of course, assumes that they never went farther north up the coast, where they would have found Coercri.
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Post by wayfriend »

Thanks for looking at what I wrote.
Matrixman wrote:Is Cail's speech to Honninscrave the first direct instance we see of a Haruchai demonstrating compassion?
Now, see, all I meant to say (and its a learning experience reading peoples responses and finding out how much of what you tried to say didn't come out exactly right!) was that Cail's words had the form of an apology, but in spirit they were meant to defend against blame.

But I would never go so far as to say that the Haruchai lack compassion. We know that they have very intense feelings, which they repress/subvert/redirect. It would go without saying that compassion and empathy go with the package.

I would also point out that each Bloodguard or Haruchai that has been a personal defender of a Lord or Covenant or Linden have always consistently acted in ways to meet the needs and limitations of those they serve, and I would argue that compassion is an important part of that skill. (Help me, I don't have the book before me, but I am thinking of a particular scene where Covenant is in his room and he hears Cail at the door turning away someone trying to see Covenant.) Even to the point of the ultimate defense, as per Thomin/Verement as you point out.
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Post by dlbpharmd »

(Help me, I don't have the book before me, but I am thinking of a particular scene where Covenant is in his room and he hears Cail at the door turning away someone trying to see Covenant.)
I think you're referring to when Honninscrave approaches Covenant to beg for Seadreamer's caamora.
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Post by Myste »

What a great dissection!:D

I'm disappointed by the SoulBiter each time I read the chrons...we have all this terrific buildup, with the intensity of the cold, the trance-like state everyone seems to enter, and all we end up with is a couple of hallucinations and some guilt. We finally hear Seadreamer speak at length, and what a denunciation! I've just always wished that there was more to it than that, some sort of struggle, or debate...

The SoulBiter has so much possibility--it's never in the same place twice, and it's never the same kind of ocean. You never know how it will assail you, so there's no way to prepare for it. And this is all we get.
Spoiler
It's too bad SRD couldn't find a way to have the arguleh attack there
.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the last Chrons.
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To all who responded to my humble dissection ... thanks.
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Post by variol son »

Without preamble, he said, "Grimmand Honninscrave, in the name of my people I desire your pardon. When Brinn assayed himself against ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol - he who is the sovereign legend and dream of all the Haruchai among the mountains - it was not his intent to bring about the death of Cable Seadreamer your brother."
I always felt that Cail was expressing his sorrow and sympathy in the only way he knew how. However, the fact that when he mentions ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol he tacks on the "he who is the sovereign legend and dream of all the Haruchai among the mountains" bit suggests to me that Brinn would have gone ahead even if he had known that his actions would lead to Seadreamer's death. I think only a danger to Covenant himself would have stayed Brinn's hand.

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In the name of their ancient pride and humiliation, they had made commitments with no possible outcome except bereavement.

He knew only that they had never striven to reject the boundaries of themselves.
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Post by dlbpharmd »

I think that you're right in saying that Brinn would've gone ahead and challenged ahKA in spite of the risks. But since Brinn no longer served TC at this point, I doubt that any risk to TC would have stopped him either.
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Post by danlo »

tonyz wrote:I also find the geography a little weird -- they sail from the desert of the Bhraithair to the Isle of the One Tree, a voyage of not too long a time, and suddenly they're in the arctic north? Doesn't quite compute, unless you think they're sailing on the seas of Faerie or something.
I'll have to take a little umbarge with this statement. Starfare's Gem sailed a good ways north (westish) before encountering the Isle of the One Tree. And, rereading The Path to Pain today, weeks, if not 3+ weeks were spent in a pretty darn fast "sailor's wind" before an even nastier Dolewind pushed them north into the Soulbiter. Remember there were many days when the dromond could not tack properley due to attacks or even move and had to be assisted, finally, by the Nicor on it's way east.

Also, regarding the Soulbiter-some above seem not particullarly satisfied with it as a physical manefestation-but, too me, on a psychological and emotional level it ripped me to pieces. So it wasn't there that long physically but it did stop literally everything in it's tracks, the Giants, Linden and the ship itself. Covenant thinks about "will" throughout the chapter: Foul's will, his will, and many other aspects of will. Isnt's this in some may a manesfestation of his will? The impending Soulbiter was his fear that he had no name for-but like Foul his fear became an extention of himself and the regression he was going through. He was reverting back to himself and the original condition of his leprosy and guilt. The Soulbiter manifested this--even the Giants stood still. He had reverted back to solitude, into himself, into the fact that he is now nothing compared to Foul now without the venom. Didn't the doctors warn him that there is extreme danger in fantasy? He's even forgetting VSE and the drive for survival that once kept him alive.

The hallucinations of the Soulbiter and the factors I've mentioned above-manifest his greatest fear-the fear of himself. If Foul is an extention of himself he completely extends himself when he meets the Soulbiter=himself. Foul may be elsewhere but the collective experience of the entire Second Chronicals is effected by Covenant himself here. I don't know how to explain myself further other than saying-that the Devil aside, Jesus was left to his own devises when he had his "moment of doubt and pain".
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Post by Myste »

danlo wrote:Isn't this in some way a manifestation of his will? The impending Soulbiter was his fear that he had no name for-but like Foul his fear became an extention of himself and the regression he was going through. He was reverting back to himself and the original condition of his leprosy and guilt. The Soulbiter manifested this--even the Giants stood still.
Hmmm. I don't disagree with anything danlo says here. Covenant has to face his leprosy and guilt--and even venom--in the Soulbiter because that's what his soul is filled with. But I don't think the Soulbiter was meant only for Covenant. The marooned sailors, the fight with the Sandgorgon, Seadreamer's plea--they're all designed to further gouge the wounds every member of the Search carries in their heart of hearts, to expose their weaknesses to them, and then convince them that those weaknesses cannot be overcome. (Almost like Gibbon the raver.) But the only perspective we really see it from is Covenant's. I know his name's in the title, and it would be impossible to show the Soulbiter from everyone's perspective--and it wouldn't move the story ahead. I just feel like there's a lot of the Soulbiter left to be explored.

On a slight tangent: Does the Soulbiter remind anyone else of the Dark Island in "Voyage of the Dawn Treader"? A place that looks into the deepest corners of your mind and makes real your worst fears?
Halfway down the stairs Is the stair where I sit. There isn't any other stair quite like it. I'm not at the bottom, I'm not at the top; So this is the stair where I always stop.
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Post by danlo »

Yes I see your point Myste and Covenant wasn't even conscious during the fight between the Haruchai and Nom at the sandwall. I tend to be a TC focused reader and sometimes forget that Linden's inner stuggles effects the Land's world too. Your comment about the Dark Island is very thought provoking. Didn't Bradbury use the same device, to some degree, in The Martian Chronicles? If the Giants truly are included, of their own freewill, in this collective hallucination then there's no disputing the reality their world. What exactly motivated Covenant to act first? A leper's survival training, guilt about not giving Seadreamer release, the white gold? What?
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Post by matrixman »

It's clear to me that it was Covenant's tremendous guilt over Seadreamer that cracked the Soulbiter's hold on him. Guilt gives you power. Or something like that.

I appreciated the dreadful nature of the Soulbiter. I think anyone would hate and fear to be paralyzed, frozen helpless to do anything in a situation. It's certainly one of my biggest fears. In the case of the Soulbiter, you literally are frozen helpless. (Variol Farseer, do I have your attention? ;) )
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Post by SoulBiter »

The SoulBiter is my namesake!!!

Great work on this Wayfriend and the comments that followed were enlightening. I had not thought of the SoulBiter in this way. Although this was an opponent with no physical teeth it obviously was able to bite the soul.
I could not imagine seeing SeaDreamer and have him begging for release. I dont think it was really SeaDreamer though. I never thought of him as being damned. He saved not just the company but the world by taking the task of trying to break a limb from the OneTree. You know if you got to go.. thats not a bad way to do so.
We miss you Tracie but your Spirit will always shine brightly on the Watch Image
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Post by dlbpharmd »

The manifestation of Seadreamer by the Soulbiter was the sum of the Quest's feelings of guilt and remorse over his life and death. Honninscrave believed he was damned by the manner of his death, and the Soulbiter showed Seadreamer in this light. In a similar fashion the deaths of Ceer and Hergrom were portrayed.

To me the Soulbiter is kind of like the merewives (without the gender bias) in that it creates a delusion to try to entice the weary sailor to plunge to his death chasing that delusion.
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