Once more: names

[Sevothtarte]

I didn't find any postings concerning these two names, so here goes...

Amok and Vain

Amok can be explained rather easily, I'd say (copying from Encyclopeadia Britannica here)

Function: noun
Etymology: Malay amok
: a murderous frenzy that occurs chiefly among Malays

Function: adverb
1 : in a murderously frenzied state
2 a : in a violently raging manner <a virus that had run amok> b : in an undisciplined, uncontrolled, or faulty manner

Function: adjective
: possessed with or motivated by a murderous or violently uncontrollable frenzy

While Amok himself (or itself?) isn't running amok, his name implies the danger of the Seventh Ward. Btw, am I the only who thinks it's strange Kevin was afraid to use the Power of Command, but thought it was Ok to do the Ritual of Desecration?

As for Vain... well, there are the following meanings of the word which might somehow might make sense for the being Vain, but I'm far from convinced:

having or showing undue or excessive pride in one's appearance or achievements -> the Ur-Viles' pride in their creation of him?

in vain: in an irreverent or blasphemous manner -> Vain's artifical nature being considered as blasphemy to the Law?

It would be good to know who named him Vain... the Ur-Viles or Foamfollower?

Well, what are your opinions?

[Fist and Faith]

Btw, am I the only who thinks it's strange Kevin was afraid to use the Power of Command, but thought it was Ok to do the Ritual of Desecration?

This point has always interested me. I assume Kevin couldn't think of anything to Command that had a better chance to kill Foul than the Ritual. Little did he know that there was no chance with that either. But I guess he figured that nothing else would do it, so Desecration was necessary.

And since he wasn't expecting Foul to survive, he didn't think any future Lords would have to use the PofC to fight Foul. Maybe he wouldn't have created Amok if he'd thought it would be used for that purpose, since he apparently didn't think it could be used successfully. He probably figured that Foul would be gone, and the Lords would use it for some beautiful purpose.

As for Vain... well, there are the following meanings of the word which might somehow might make sense for the being Vain, but I'm far from convinced:
....
It would be good to know who named him Vain... the Ur-Viles or Foamfollower?

Well, what are your opinions?

I think SRD mis-typed. It should be Vein. No wait - Vane. Yeah, Vane! He was supposed to be propped up on a roof. He could stand there forever without getting tired.

[Sevothtarte]

Vain's name in a translated version of the Chronicles I have here translates back into English as Hollow... Wonder what made the Translator do that.

[amanibhavam]

THat is quite understandable: vanity has a lot of common with emptyness; this is Webster's definition:

Vain \Vain\, a. [Compar. Vainer; superl. Vainest.] [F. vain,
L. vanus empty, void, vain. Cf. Vanish, Vanity, Vaunt
to boast.]
1. Having no real substance, value, or importance; empty;
void; worthless; unsatisfying. ``Thy vain excuse.''
--Shak.

Every man walketh in a vain show. --Ps. xxxix.
6.

Let no man deceive you with vain words. --Eph. v. 6.

Vain pomp, and glory of this world, I hate ye!
--Shak.

Vain visdom all, and false philosophy. --Milton.

Vain was pure structure, no life: emptyness.

[[Syl]]

I'm wondering if it has anything to do with the phrase "vain Chimera." That, or vain himself has no purpose, is hollow of sorts. A vessel to be filled. That, and he always seemed kind of cocky.

Amok I have no guesses for.

[Vain]

After all that I might be needing a name change

[[Syl]]

No way. Vain fits you. Cool and strangely powerful.

Now why is there a Carly Simon song running through my head?

[Sevothtarte]

Vain was pure structure, no life: emptyness.

But he wasn't just a thing, he had personality and consciousness... A thing wouldn't have reacted to violence, but Vain smiled, and a thing wouldn't have talked to Findail the way he did. So I find it difficult to call him empty...

[Vain]

Etymology - vain - 13c., from O.Fr. vein "worthless," from L. vanus "idle, empty." Meaning "conceited" first recorded 1692. Vainglory is 12c., from O.Fr. vaine glorie, from M.L. vana gloria.

[Bannor]

Ah, Sevothtarte, very good research. Never thought of the Vain connection, but I recognized Amok immediately (from a Star Trek episode called "Amok Time" ).

[Fist and Faith]

That is, indeed, the name of that episode. What a lot we learned about the Vulcans that day!

[Vain]

I'm not sure but have we touched on the 7 Deadly sins yet? I know that Vanity is one of them and wonder if there's not some connection there.

[Nav]

I just assumed that Vain was so named because the ur-viles had created him in the form of a 'perfect' human. I never considered there to be anything more in it, although now it apprears that I might be wrong. I'd thought pretty much the same thing about Amok, that the name just fitted the way the character behaved.

[danlo]

human?