Lord Foul on Kevin's Council

[ScrapOSamadhi]

It is known history that Kevin put Lord Foul at his right side on his council for long years.

Lord Foul's Bane:

He discovered my designs, recognized some measure of my true stature - though the dotard had set me on his right side in the Council for long years without sensing his peril - saw at the last who I was.

If Linden/Covenant go back in time to this era, at least they know where he'll be.

[Thaale]

We have no idea what form of time travel SRD is using.

Maybe Linden and Covenant going back and attempting to alter the past will break the Arch of Time, thus freeing Foul. They’re not trying to combat Foul 8,000 years ago.

Linden seemed to want to be pretty careful to avoid knowingly contradicting history when she went back for the Staff. I doubt she or TC would just drop in on Kevin’s council, or try to prevent the Desecration, or stop Elena from breaking the Law of Death.

Or maybe Linden and Covenant were there back then (probably under different names), and there’s not contradiction but fulfillment.

And/or maybe Covenant is truly Berek after all, despite the legends about losing half a hand in a battle.

[ScrapOSamadhi]

I didn't think they'd combat or try and change time, that would break the Arch. It just meant it would be an interesting situation - "we" know and Foul doesn't know situation.

Actually, this is an interesting time because since Berek won the war and founded the council, there must have been a couple of milleniea before Kevin came along given the Old Lords long lifespans. Where/what was Foul doing in that time and how did he meet the Lords?

[TincupCPG]

Yeah, but if Covenant and Avery go back in time to stop Foul at the beginnings of it all...then why does the first 6 books take place at all? I realize I am being literal here, but it actually makes sense. In a weird time travel sort of way. If they go back and stop Foul somehow...then LFB and the other books would not be necessary becuase none of the events would have happened that way.

I think maybe that SRD is going to use time travel more in the next 3 books...but maybe not in the way we are thinking. We are already seeing possibly the afteraffects of Linden taking the Staff of Law from the past and skipping three thousand years. Imagine taking Foul out at the beginning? No books. But I am positive that SRD will astound and amaze (and confuse) us even more with each succeding book.

[Variol Farseer]

Actually, I have the very strong and definite feeling that this time Foul isn't going to be stopped. SRD has dropped various hints over the years (in the days when he was firmly determined not to write the Last Chronicles) that this series would end with the breaking of the Arch and the ending of that world.

Already, in Runes, I see clear signs of impending tragedy. Linden's own actions seem to have been one of the major factors precipitating the spread of the caesures and the corruption of Time. She reminds me more and more of Hile Troy. Generally speaking, in SRD's moral calculus, the more determined one is to be a hero, the more certainly one will prove an inadvertent villain.

I should say that I look forward to this enormously. One of the reasons that modern commercial fantasy has become so stultified as a genre is that it has virtually forgotten the idea of tragedy. Am I mistaken? Perhaps. But what better promise of a tragic story could you ask for than the working titles of the remaining three volumes?

Fatal Revenant

Shall Pass Utterly

The Last Dark

If you've read the Narnia books, you'll know what I mean when I say that Runes feels like the opening of The Last Battle. To me, the Masters of the Land are creepily reminiscent of Shift, the Ape who pretended that Aslan and Tash were one and the same, and dressed up Puzzle the Donkey to impersonate them both.

[GrassyKnoll]

The term "Masters" creeped me out on first encountering it, and I finally realized why: at the beginning of TWL, the crazy Foul-devotees refer to LF as "the Master" and "the Master of life and death." So not only are the Haruchai using a term that no Lord in his/her right mind would think of using, they are using a term Foul applied to himself. If he could deceive Kevin for a time, he could probably do the same thing to the Haruchai.

[Reynard Ashmelayn]

I'm pretty sure that Linden won't dare go back in time to Kevin's age...That would shatter the Law of Time beyond all repair and free Foul.

[Variol Farseer]

Probably true. But wouldn't it be a hoot if one of the Old Lords fell through a caesure into Linden's present time?

[Reynard Ashmelayn]

I could see SRD doing that just because it would hurt them so much ^.^

[ur-bane]

I remember seeing a statement in another post about the integrity of the First and Second Chronicles being in jeopardy if people from the past came to the present to fight for the Land. (past Covenant in particular)

I agree with the thinking behind that statement. For that reason, I don't think SRD is going to miraculously bring those from the past into the present to fight Foul or the other enemies of the Earth and Arch.

Although I can surmise that travel through time will play a role throughout the Last Chronicles, personally, I think that SRD will use time travel infrequently, and with a clever outcome. I am hoping that it will not be a victim of overkill.

[aiken]

Going back to Kevin's time sounds like a cheesy set-up. I hope SRD doesn't use some sort of cheesy timetravel theme to go Back-To-The-Future-esque. I really don't think he will.

Please forgive the audacity, but, this is the way I imagine the above scenario:

Linden goes back in time to High Lord Kevin b****-slaps him, saying "Why do you think his name is Lord Foul! Don't you get it?"

And Kevin, of course, to keep the dramatic tension going, couldn't possibly see the light. "The Foul's are a nice, disntinguished family. Very wealthy. The name is just a coinicidence. I've known him since he was a boy, always kicked my butt in hop-board.... There is no way Lord Foul would betray me, just like Sauron did in the Second Age of Middle Earth, bringing utter ruin to the Numernorians. Couldn't happen. "

On a serious note, I confess that I do miss the Lords. I really wouldn't mind seeing them again. I do wonder though, now that Linden has gone back in time and forward in time, if Foul will attempt to bring things/people from the past into the future. I can definitely see that, and then you'll have Linden swearing at herself for giving Foul an opening by further breaking the law of time herself.

[ur-bane]

A suggestion, if I may be so bold.

Although the dissections of RotE have not yet begun, I think that re-reading chapter 11 Hints might be a good idea.

I personally picked up on quite a few possibilities from that chapter alone.

If "foreshadowing" is a term still used in the literary world, then this particular chapter is teeming with it.

[aiken]

A suggestion, if I may be so bold.

Although the dissections of RotE have not yet begun, I think that re-reading chapter 11 Hints might be a good idea.

I personally picked up on quite a few possibilities from that chapter alone.

If "foreshadowing" is a term still used in the literary world, then this particular chapter is teeming with it.

I am intrigued. What hints?

[Funky Staff of Law]

Well, as someone has already pointed out there is a loophole where if Covenant and Linden were meant to be around at the time of Kevin then there is no contradiction… of course again we have the problem that Kevin has seen Covenant (didn’t he?) when Elena brought him back from the Dead… but maybe he knew not to say anything or some such…

I whole heartedly agree with the poster who compared these book to the final Narnia ones BUT what I don’t want is a fricking Christian allegory where SRD destroys the land only have it remade stronger etc etc. The Last Dark could easily mean the ending of darkness, as opposed to death.

I can’t believe that we are not going to see, at some stage in these four books, an appearance by one or several of the Lords, MHORAM please! So consequences of time travel be damned.

[esmerlover]

We've probably seen all the time traveling we've seen in this series. Knowing SRD's writing philosphy any idea to go back in time again would be met with something like this:

"In Linden's mind, entering another ceasure seemed like the only way out of this mess. However, she already knew the unexpected evil that could be brought about by those intentions. It was her fault the Demondim had arrived in this time. Too many had already perished because of her decision to risk the arch. She would not do so again. She had to find another way."

Besides. She no longer has the urviles to help her out.

However, I wouldn't rule out making use of the ceasures to travel through space...not just time.

Remember, at some point, Linden has to get back to the One Tree and I doubt SRD will spend another whole book on an ocean journey.

[dlbpharmd]

Remember, at some point, Linden has to get back to the One Tree and I doubt SRD will spend another whole book on an ocean journey.

Why does she have to go back to the One Tree?

[esmerlover]

There was the prophetic vision she had while in Joan's mind of her back at the one tree with her companions only this time she was the one weilding the ring and rousing the worm of the world's end.

Or maybe it was just symbolic of her fears that she might not be able to control to power she was given.

dunno for sure.

[oscartheduck]

Now here's an idea. There has been a lot of speculation that the land ain't gonna surviive this one. I assumed that would be because Foul managed to escape somehow thorugh his plans, but what if it's because Linden willingly goes and rouses the Worm? Because she has knowledge of some plan or other that Foul doesn't. Hm.