Esmer and the Elohim

[wayfriend]

I am half way through my second read of Runes, and I am struck by how pathetic a being Esmer is. Not in a writing stand point (he is a great character), but after all the whining on Runes about Linden and Anele, etc. I found it interesting that no one finds Esmer pathetic.

I do.

I am made to be what I am. Every moment of my existence is conflict and pain.

It's interesting that the dissection is just coming around to Esmer. You should dive in and join the discussions there.

[dlbpharmd]

I'm not at the point where I would call Esmer pathetic. At least not in a manner that suggests that I feel sorry for him. In fact, I can't stand him. The first thing he does is nearly kill Stave, then he brings in the Demondim.

If he's meant to be a sympathetic character, I'm not seeing it.

[wayfriend]

[Usivius]

After saying that he is bound to respect the Law of Time, he time-travels back to the same time as Linden anyway. It doesn't seem that he was within the caesure. When Linden asks him "what are you doing here" he replies that he does have some of the freedoms of the Elohim. Paradox indeed! Or simply a liar.

Hmmm nice one ... food for though.

(gosh, I'm beginning to hate paradoxes... )

[Dirty Whirl]

His power still is disproportionate, paradox or not, because the merewives aren't directly descended from the merewives! The story goes that Katty loved a human chick and taught her some things (we can assume she could possibly become powerful like, say, an old lord), then she got a bunch of abandoned men hating chicks, taught them stuff, and I don't know, buggered off while the rest of them jumped in the sea. So I don't know where all the power comes from.

[SothuTheUnfetterdOne.]

What was it findail said? he hurt her and called it love?
so I'm just speculating here when katty stopped what I assume is the
durance, The woman (Is she ever named?) who he had taught some elohim stuff was hurt worse and jumped into the sea.

[wayfriend]

Slowly, [Findail] said, "It is sooth that there are many tales told of these merewives, the Dancers of the Sea. One such is the tale that they are the descendants and inheritors of the woman whom Kastenessen loved-that she took with her the power and knowledge which she gained from him, and also the daughters of all men-betrayed women, and set herself and them to seek restitution from all men who abandon their homes in the name of the sea. The Haruchai have gone to meet a jeopardy which arises only from the quenchless extravagance of their own hearts, for the merewives did naught except sing-but the Haruchai answered. I will not offend further against that which was born of Kastenessen's mad love."

So the merewives would not necessarilly be children of Kastenessen or the love-doomed women, but merely women who took up with the woman and learned power from her.

Another thing worth noticing is that the merewives, here, did naught except sing. Assuredly they have undertaken more severe actions in Runes.

But if there is no hint of Kastenessen ever having any children with the woman, then how can Esmer be a direct off-spring? Is he a child only in the sense of inheriting power rather than that of biology? The woman did take Kastenessen's power and knowledge and give it to the merewives.

[Tulizar]

Slowly, [Findail] said, "It is sooth that there are many tales told of these merewives, the Dancers of the Sea. One such is the tale that they are the descendants and inheritors of the woman whom Kastenessen loved-that she took with her the power and knowledge which she gained from him, and also the daughters of all men-betrayed women, and set herself and them to seek restitution from all men who abandon their homes in the name of the sea. The Haruchai have gone to meet a jeopardy which arises only from the quenchless extravagance of their own hearts, for the merewives did naught except sing-but the Haruchai answered. I will not offend further against that which was born of Kastenessen's mad love."

So the merewives would not necessarilly be children of Kastenessen or the love-doomed women, but merely women who took up with the woman and learned power from her.

Another thing worth noticing is that the merewives, here, did naught except sing. Assuredly they have undertaken more severe actions in Runes.

But if there is no hint of Kastenessen ever having any children with the woman, then how can Esmer be a direct off-spring? Is he a child only in the sense of inheriting power rather than that of biology? The woman did take Kastenessen's power and knowledge and give it to the merewives.

Good point about Esmer's heritage. I got the impression from Runes that the Merewives were offspring of K's Woman.


Interesting that Findail makes a point to say there are many such tales about the Merewives. His story of Kastenessen and the Merewives is either a small part of a broader tale, or one account of the Merewives' history.

What do we know about the "men-betrayed" women who took to the seas with Kastenessen's lover? After learning the Elohim's Lore second hand, what became of the women? We know their hatred of men has evolved into a sort of unspecified supernatural power. But with the knowledge of Kastenessen, did they also manage to gain or develop new Lore over the thousands of years in the seas? The Old Lords were able to learn new Lore, so maybe the Merewives did the same. This could account for Esmer's power.
Perhaps there are denizens of the waters who have influenced the Merewives as well. We've only been told of the creatures in the Land. Who knows what's lurking beneath the seas. There's no saying what powers they might have aquired living in a world we know nothing about.

Hopefully in Runes there will be more tales that will flesh things out a bit.

[Relayer]

Slowly, [Findail] said, "It is sooth that there are many tales told of these merewives, the Dancers of the Sea. One such is the tale that they are the descendants and inheritors of the woman whom Kastenessen loved-that she took with her the power and knowledge which she gained from him, and also the daughters of all men-betrayed women, and set herself and them to seek restitution from all men who abandon their homes in the name of the sea. The Haruchai have gone to meet a jeopardy which arises only from the quenchless extravagance of their own hearts, for the merewives did naught except sing-but the Haruchai answered. I will not offend further against that which was born of Kastenessen's mad love."

So the merewives would not necessarilly be children of Kastenessen or the love-doomed women, but merely women who took up with the woman and learned power from her.

Another thing worth noticing is that the merewives, here, did naught except sing. Assuredly they have undertaken more severe actions in Runes.

But if there is no hint of Kastenessen ever having any children with the woman, then how can Esmer be a direct off-spring? Is he a child only in the sense of inheriting power rather than that of biology? The woman did take Kastenessen's power and knowledge and give it to the merewives.

Good point about Esmer's heritage. I got the impression from Runes that the Merewives were offspring of K's Woman.

I always got that impression, also from TOT. Notice it says "they are the descendants and inheritors of the woman whom Kastenessen loved" -- so that could mean direct descendants, or not. I think most of us had the impression of direct descendants. And Esmer seems to back that up:

"He is my grandsire"

"I descend from the blood and power and betrayal of Elohim, as from other theurgies. And from true service as well, the honor of Haruchai."

"The Dancers of the Sea loathe the love which they call forth, for they were themselves born of such vast yearning."

So it seems that Kastenessen's lineage is directly passed down, although I suppose SRD could mess with us and have "grandsire" be a metaphorical thing rather than direct parentage. Esmer makes many other references to his Elohim lineage, and how this has conferred his powers upon him.

But with the knowledge of Kastenessen, did they also manage to gain or develop new Lore over the thousands of years in the seas? The Old Lords were able to learn new Lore, so maybe the Merewives did the same. This could account for Esmer's power.

They were certainly able to transform into sea-dwelling creatures who could create vast waterspouts and sing like the Sirens. Who knows what other lore they could've learned and passed on to Esmer? (well, SRD does)

[ninjaboy]

Esmer is controlled by opposing desires.. He seems to work for Kastenessen/ Merewives half the time and then has a desire to serve linden the other half... His desire to serve Linden must come from his Haruchai heritage.. But I don't think that fully explains his powers.. If Foul controlled him or gave him power, I doubt he'd have been accepten by the Ranyhyn..

What is his relationship with the Demondim-spawn anyway? I get the feeling the Ur-Viles and Waynhim are going to play a huge role in what's to come.. And the only way Linden is going to be able to understand them is through a boon from the Elohim...

And knowing the Elohim I can't see that happenning.

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

Esmer's either a child or a machine, he can't go around kicking people in the hip and then tell them that it's not his fault, just his nature to dislocate body parts at random. I think he will play a large part in the future books, but I can't stand him in Runes.

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

I think he inherited that from me. Bloody Linden

Silence fiend!

I simply cannot understand how so many people on this site hate Linden. After all, the issues she faces are much more accessable to us than Covenant's. None of us has leprosy, but it's likely that many of us have felt powerless, and desired power yet feared the responsability that accompanies it.

Anyway, that was off topic. Sorry.

Sum sui generis
Vs

The alien nature of his dilemmas are exactly what makes him so interesting, while Linden's dilemmas are pretty simple in concept, though complex in character.

[Reisheiruhime]

"I descend from the blood and power and betrayal of Elohim, as from other theurgies. And from true service as well, the honor of Haruchai."

Is it even possible for Elohim to reproduce? Sounds silly, but why would the Creator's children need to reproduce when they themselves can become anything they choose? It sounds as though we're working with a set number, with just a few being picked off through the ages as Appointed or through other means...

Spoiler

Though I wonder if there is a set number of Insequent?