Earthpower/Good and Evil/Neither

[Rukh]

I decided to pick up on this idea when I read some posts on this from last month.
Earthpowr is benevolent from the point of view of health, life, etc. I don't think it is intrinsically good in any moral sense; it seems to me that the goodness of the people of the Land is a response to the experience of being close to the Earthpower. The beauty seems to inspire them to this. But, it is stated in many places in the series that Earthpower can be bent to evil ends, and that some forms of Earthpower lack even the ability to defend themselves from poor or corrupt use. This is a difficult concept to pin down; I think that this is one of the things that makes SRD's concepts so interesting; they seem to move on a fluid continuum. For instance, the Staff of Law seems to be the bastion of Law, and Law sometimes does equate to goodness, in a moral sense. But, not always. Drool and later Foul was able to twist the Staff to his use; and then there is the Earthblood, which can wreak havoc on the world, but does not seem to be corrupt in of itself. I think that this whole thing touches on one of SRD's most essentail, but difficult topics. When Linden Avery saw Foul in the beginning of T.W.L. she felt that his eyes bespoke of a kind of sentient illness. SRD obviously has a background in medical knowledge, and he seems to be trying to conceptualize a kind of illness, or disease that is conscious of it's corruption, and deliberate in it. This kind of metaphysical disease is what Foul and the Ravers embody. And, of course he doesn't want us to confuse mere illness with true evil, but again, there are places where things seem to blur into each other.

[Fist and Faith]

Earthpowr is benevolent from the point of view of health, life, etc.

To me, this sentence is the key to it all. From the pov of most Land-dwellers, things like health and life are good. Therefore, they will use whatever power they can to try to further the causes of health and life.

OTOH, from the pov of Foul and the Ravers, things like health and life are bad. Therefore, they will use whatever power they can to try to end health and life.

The Staff of Law (at least the original) was, indeed, a bastion of Law. But I think that Law is best compared to our laws of physics. This is simply how things happen. When X occurs, Y will follow. It's just the way things are. If you have heat, fuel, and oxygen, you can start a fire. If you do it a certain way, enough energy is released to warm you. Done another way, huge forests are burned, killing untold numbers of plants and animals. Same with Earthpower. Use it one way, and you get energy to help plants grow, or mend a broken jar. Use it another way, and you burn forests and melt stone.

Here are a few of the quotes that I assume inspired your post.

"Can it be used to defeat the Despiser?"

"Power is power. Its uses are in the hands of the user."

"Amok," Amatin said, then hesitated. She seemed almost afraid of her next question. But she clenched her resolve, and spoke it. "Does the Seventh Ward contain knowledge of the Ritual of Desecration?"

"Lord, Desecration requires no knowledge. It comes freely to any willing hand."

"Sun-Sage. I see this venom of which you speak. It is plain in him – as is the wrong which you name leprosy. But we have no unction for this hurt. It is power – apt for good or ill – and too deeply entwined in his being for any disentanglement. Would you have us rip out the roots of his life? Power is life, and for him its roots are venom and leprosy. The price of such aid would be the loss of all power forever." - Infelice

"Is that more of your pitch? How do you make it?"

At that, he laughed, and his mirth came more easily. "Yes, Chosen. In all good sooth, this is my pitch. The vat is formed of dolomite, that it may not be fused as would the stone of Starfare's Gem. But as to the making of pitch - ah, that it skills nothing for me to relate. You are neither Giant nor wiver. And the power of pitch arises as does any other, from the essence of the adept who wields it. All power is an articulation of its wielder. There is no other source than life - and the desire of that life to express itself. But there must also be a means of articulation. I can say little but that this pitch is my chosen means. Having said that, I have left you scarce wiser than before."

Linden shrugged away his disclaimer. "Then what you're saying," she murmured slowly, "is that the power of wild magic comes from Covenant himself? The ring is just his - his means of articulation?"

He nodded. "I believe that to be sooth. But the means controls intimately the nature of what may be expressed. By my pitch I may accomplish nothing for the knitting of broken limbs, just as no theurgy of the flesh may seal stone as I do."

[Gadget nee Jemcheeta]

So what exactly are the values of the Haruchai then, in terms of ideals for the life of Land? Because obviously they hold themselves to different ideas than the people of the land. In fact, under their ideas of value, self worth, combat, being sufficient and all that, the people of the Land are like sheep under their Mastery.

[drew]

The Haruchai are almost a paradox onto themselves:

They are always trying to be the best they can be, but without changeing at all.

It's understandable though, their fear of Earthpower-most of what they have ever seen of it, has been over-use and evil.

They weren't around when Berek was learning the splenor of it; they weren't around when Mhoram, and his decendants were using it to it's fullest potential.

They were areound, however, when Kevin Descrated the Land with it, they were around when Elena broke the Law of Death with it, they were around to see what the perversion of it (the Sunbane) can do.

I guess Earthpower is like beauty-It's in the eye of the beholder!

[Gadget nee Jemcheeta]

I suppose... they're pretty extreme, those guys. I mean, they're even extreme about staying grounded. The humbled? yeesh.

[drew]

An Idea just occured to me.

Troy's purpose -from the storyteller point of view- was to be Covenants polar opposite-he was the 'Believer'.

Now it seems that in the second Chronicles we find that the Haruchai have a polar opposite...the Elohim.

The E's are so fluid, and Faery-like..while the H are very rigid and conformed.

The Haruchai dis-trust Earthpower in all it's forms...the Elohim are earthpower.

I don't want to get into any 3rd Chron spoilers here..but it's something to think about.

[Gadget nee Jemcheeta]

If you've got some interesting things to suggest, throwem in runes discussion!

[Fist and Faith]

drew, I like your thought a lot!

[drew]

More thinking on the Topic..the Haruchai and Elohim, may be opposite sides of the same coin.

The Haruchai have their mind-speech, they were able to uphold their vow, they could kick-butt and take names, without any weapons, they were uneffected by the Sunbane, yet their blood fed the Banefire stronger than any Landers blood. All of these traits seem very Elohim-like to me.
Yet the HAruchai, are less Elohim-like than any other peoples-they care nothing for power, or beauty-(Well they may care for beauties, but they don't contribute)

And what of the ak-Haru? A Haruchai Honerific, yet he seems like their version of an Appointed if you ask me.
And why would a Haruchai be guarding the One Tree-that is at thecenter of the Elohim's Word?

When SRD wront the 1st Chrons, allhe said of the Elohim was that they were a Faery-like poeple met by the wandering Giants. He then says that when writing the 2nd chrons, he had to go back to the 1st chrons and build on many things like the Elhom, or the Sandgorgans.
So maybe he decided to make them the Haruchai opposite; or like I said, the opposite side of the same coin.

[Gadget nee Jemcheeta]

And why would a Haruchai be guarding the One Tree-that is at thecenter of the Elohim's Word?

That's the thing that stands out to me most about that post, definately. Wow

[Fist and Faith]

So what exactly are the values of the Haruchai then, in terms of ideals for the life of Land? Because obviously they hold themselves to different ideas than the people of the land. In fact, under their ideas of value, self worth, combat, being sufficient and all that, the people of the Land are like sheep under their Mastery.

I've tried to express my thoughts on this before, but I'm not sure how well I did. Difficult to word. But it's been a while, so I'll try again.

To me, the Haruchai are lovers of beauty like nobody else. At least as much as anyone else. They saw the Land in its greatest glory and beauty, and Vowed to keep it that way. In the Final Chrons, they're still trying to do this, though their commitment is now more general. It's impossible to fault them for their intent.

Unfortunately, Haruchai naiveté seems to be as eternal as their collective memory. They see in black & white. One example of this is their stance on knowledge and weapons. A bigger example is that they don't see that they can't force the Land to stay beautiful. They don't see that this beauty came about in certain ways, ways that had nothing to do with Haruchai, and that changing any factors, like not letting Lords or Land-dwellers learn or use Earthpower (Holy cow, this is a huge Ayn Rand conversation!!! ), will likely change the whole picture, and destroy the beauty they so badly want to save.

I've said before that I think their Vow should have been nothing more than bodyguards. I will use all my skills and life to keep you safe from the physical attacks of your enemies. And maybe it started out as something closer to that. But after Kevin's little stunt, they changed, and began keeping the Lords safe from themselves. And it's all downhill from there!