Those Odd Words

[robo]

(Perhaps there should be a general Donaldson forum for general discussion of his writing?)

For odd word, I nominate:

ETIOLATE

1. trans. To render (a plant) pale or colourless by excluding the light from it; to blanch.
2. transf. To give a pale and sickly hue to (a human being or his skin).
4. intr. To become white or whiter; to blanch; to be whitened by exclusion of sunlight, as plants.

[amanibhavam]

my favourite is 'roynish'
I am not a native English, tho'

[fightingmyinstincts]

Where does he get 'em? I nominate carious. Lambent, glister, ameliorate, and several score more I can't remember.... That made reading kinda hard.

[Prince of Amber]

I always liked Tsumami, it was one of the few that I looked up, with alot of the others I didn't bother.

[Bannor]

Got to be the almighty vortex of trepidation! I had to look that one up (along with a few others). Always good to keep a dictionary beside you when you read (or when you're at the gangrene computer)! (still haven't found a definition of telic )

[Foamfollower1013]

I like "argent". And "mendacity". And the word he kept using to describe the vegetation that grew under the fertile sun...I can't remember what it was..."verdure" maybe? There are others, but I can't think of them at the moment. Reading SRD definitely improves your vocabulary, that's for sure.

~Foamy~

[Hearthcoal]

Thanks to SRD, I know the meaning of

inchoate (did TC ever have a thought or feeling that wasn't inchoate?) and

condign

I'm glad you started this thread, Robo. I thought this place needed a word-of-the-day page.



Bannor, still looking for a definition of telic? I found one on Merriam-Webster's ("tending to an end; an ultimate end"), but without more of a context, I am not sure that it makes sense. Where in the world did you get that quote? TCTC? If so, which chapter/page?



Amanibhavam, "roynish" was defined on www.dictionary.com as:

(from French "rogneux" from "rogne" scab, mange, itch) Mangy; scabby; hence, mean; paltry; troublesome. [Written also roinish.] [Obs.] "The roynish clown.'' --Shakespeare.

[Bannor]

Thanks, Hearthcoal. I ran out of dictionaries, couldn't even find it in the online Oxford dictionary. It came from a review in a book called Realms of Fantasy, p.107. It was in a paragraph talking about SD's unusual words (just what this forum was talking about!). The quote was:

They were featureless and telic, like lambent gangrene.

. The sentence doesn't make a lot of sense (to me).

[Hearthcoal]

I'm currently away from "The Books," but your quote is ringing some faint bell of memory. It may be from their adventures in the great swamp. It seems like TC and the crew were surrounded by these weird floating bubble things (I have the impression of uncontained lava lamps).

The difficulty that I have with making sense of the quote is this: "featureless" and "lambent" are both physical descriptions.

But if "telic" is a physical description it is somewhat vague ("tending to an end" means what? stumpy? I suppose the reader could put together some mental image of a featureless, stumpy, lambent being - I'm picturing a sort of elongated blob here).

"Telic" can also mean purpose driven (that is one way of interpreting "tending to an end"). The green blobs I remember were certainly purpose driven.

But that means SRD sandwiched an abstract description in between two physical descriptions all in the same sentence.

It would be somewhat like saying, "Hearthcoal was tall, obsessed and brunette." Regardless of how true each description was, the reader would (or should) wonder what those three descriptions had to do with each other.

Of course, if the reader does not know what obsessed means, then he may not feel as jarred by that sentence, and he may conclude from the context that obsessed is a physical description like tall and brunette are.

[Bannor]

Well, you certainly delved deeply into the sentence, and what you said makes sense. I couldn't put it into words as well as you did, but I did try to make some sense of it. I noticed that I had made some notes in the book (before I knew what telic meant), and I came up with:
The had no features, but had purpose like gangrene giving off a soft glow. I still had problems with that because I can't imagine gangrene having a purpose. (I believe gangrene has an effect but no purpose).
If the creatures are indeed skest, then SD said that they did have a purpose, "It is their purpose to gather sacrifices for another being, which they worship. This being they do not name." (TWL P.427 HC) Couldn't find the exact sentence quoted though from Realms of Fantasy. Like you though I think it was the same creatures.

[robo]

1. Gram. Of a conjunction or clause: Expressing end or purpose.

1846 in WORCESTER (citing Prof. Stuart). 1856 ALFORD Grk. Test. III. 90 note/2 [In Eph. ii. 9 ] has in matter of fact its strictest telic sense. With God, results are all purposed. 1882 FARRAR Early Chr. II. 507 note, St. John's use of is far wider than that of classical writers. It often loses its telic sense (‘in order that’) and becomes simply ekbatic or explanatory, as in Luke i. 43, John xv. 13. 1904 Sat. Rev. 9 Apr. 460/1 It expresses a purpose or intention, and is therefore telic.



2. Directed or tending to a definite end; purposive.

1889 MIVART Truth xxv. 438 The telic series of cyclical changes which are characteristic of all duly organized living bodies. 1903 L. F. WARD Pure Sociol. II. v. 94 All causes are either efficient, conative, or telic. Ibid. II. vi. 97 The telic or final cause is not a force,..but it utilizes efficient causes in a manner wholly its own, and thus produces effects. 1906 DEALEY & WARD Text-bk. Sociology §280 Civilisation chiefly consists in the exercise of the telic faculty.

[robo]

Isn't that tsunami? I knew that one. Also knew ameliorate. Knew argent and verdure (both terms are used in Heraldry). Mendacity I've heard of before (don't know the meaning) and trepidation I figure is derived from intrepid and I have an idea about that. Thing is some of these words (like etiolate) I've never heard of before and I've read lots of books.

[Hearthcoal]

I am green with envy, Robo. You have access to www.oed.com?

I've been to the web site, but the actual dictionary is a subscription and, as much as I spoil myself, even I am not willing to shell out the Shekels for that...yet. (Give me time.)

Words...words...words...words...

Given other circumstances, I could have spent my life in the library with my nose in a dictionary. I wish I could find the words to describe the feelings that I get sometimes from ideas and words. Language can be so imprecise, but it is so beautiful.

Bannor, don't underate yourself; you figured out that sentence before I ever did.

[robo]

I get OED free through the university I work for. It's really cool - all their definitions have sources, so you can see when the word first appeared in text, etc...

[Vexis Larseker]

I always liked SRD's color descriptions: "lambent", "argent", "sable", "viridian", "incarnadine", etc. I don't know how many times I had to pause in the middle of the Chronicles and go look up one of his word choices.

I'm currently reading the Gormenghast Trilogy by Mervyn Peake, and I'm having to do the same thing. The most recent word I had to look up was "ullage" - which is "the amount that a container lacks of being full". Surprisingly, I've encountered the word "etiolated" in this trilogy as well, although it appeared in the descriptive blurb on the back of the first book and not in the actual text thus far.

My dictionary (Webster's New World Third Edition) lists a linguistic meaning of "telic" as "perfective" - "tending to bring or to achieve perfection". I'm not sure that that definition fits the description any better.

I just had a thought - what if SRD or his editor made a mistake (impossible!) and actually meant to use the word "telluric" - which means "pertaining to the soil, terrestrial". This seems to me to fit better, but still not perfectly.

[Bannor]

What a novel thought, Vexis Telluric would certainly fit better than telic. I feel that the editor couldn't make that big of a mistake, but telluric fits much better than telic. (in fact there was another definition of telluric that said "being or relating to a usually natural electric current flowing near the earth's surface" which would accont for the glow the skesh gave off?)

[aliantha]

Sounds like maybe SRD is using "telic" as a synonym for "purposeful".

Webster's Unabridged says: "Denoting the final end or purpose, as distinguished from ecbatic." (OMG, ecbatic??? An archaic word that SRD didn't use??)

Anyway. I remember years ago reading TCTC once through with a dictionary at my elbow, just to look up all these darned words. The only one I couldn't find in my dictionary of the time was "roynish". I made sure that the next dictionary I bought had "roynish" in it!

I read an interview of SRD somewhere where he said he liked the Gormenghast books. Tried to find them at the library once but they were checked out, I think, and then afterward I forgot....

[Lauralin]

Several of the words you mentioned I already know, but I rather think that Donaldson used rather too many archaic words. Roynish I like, it sounds cool.....my dictionary had it too, but then again it's 20 years old and weighs 10 pounds.
"Imbricated ophite petals"
That would mean that the petals were overlaping and gold in color, but why in the world couldn't he just SAY so?! It took me three books to find out what argent meant (couldn't find the dictionary) when, considering how many times that word is used, it would've been nice if JUST ONCE the word silver had been used instead! Don't get me wrong...I do like words, but there is such a thing as overdoing the unused vocabulary (imo).

[amanibhavam]

well, if you remember you chemistry lessons, the sign for silver is Ar from argentum, and then there is Argentina = Silverland...

[Bannor]

Just a small note from a lowly 4th grade teacher:
AR=Argon
AG=Silver