House approves flag-burning amendment
Measure might finally pass Senate
Flag Burning
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[Syl]
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Flag Burning
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
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I'm Murrin
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I can't believe that this is coming up again. While it makes me mad as hell to see someone burn the flag, there is that tiny matter of free speech.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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Lord Mhoram
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dlb,
Well it's all relative isn't it? Can we really equate what the Qu'ran means to Muslims as to what the flag means to America?
Further, the Qu'ran issue wasn't about legal rights. It was about sending a message to the world about how we treat the Islamic culture. This is obviously a huge issue, since we are at War with that culture over our treatment of each other. Flushing the Qu'ran was insensitive and foolish, especially at a time when we are at war with Islamic extremeists. [/off-topic]
Well it's all relative isn't it? Can we really equate what the Qu'ran means to Muslims as to what the flag means to America?
Further, the Qu'ran issue wasn't about legal rights. It was about sending a message to the world about how we treat the Islamic culture. This is obviously a huge issue, since we are at War with that culture over our treatment of each other. Flushing the Qu'ran was insensitive and foolish, especially at a time when we are at war with Islamic extremeists. [/off-topic]
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safetyjedi
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Wait a minute, I thought that it was one of the muslim prisoners that flushed the Koran, maybe I'm wrong but I believe that is the case. BTW, the bill just doesn't pertain to flag burning, it allows congress to ban all desecration of the flag. I personally am torn on this issue like Cail. I know we have freedom of speech but at the same time desecrating the flag is showing a complete lack of respect for all of those who fought so hard and those who died to give us those rights. It is the ultimate show of disrespect for a country, so it is more than just protest to me.
Join me and we can end this destructive conflict...
I am torn - free speech is important. However, free speech doesn't allow you to scream "FIRE!" in a crowded theatre. (I know - it's not the same thing - but it does show we balance free speech with broader needs.)
In this case - I voted NO - we should not allow the desecration of the flag.
What laws govern protection of the national flag in our international Watch brother's and sister's countries? Is the Union Jack protected? ...
In this case - I voted NO - we should not allow the desecration of the flag.
What laws govern protection of the national flag in our international Watch brother's and sister's countries? Is the Union Jack protected? ...
He/She who dies with the most toys wins! Wait a minute ... I can't die!!!
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duchess of malfi
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When it comes down to it, a flag is just a bit of cloth that represents something. If the flag is burned or defaced, then it doesn't really affect the thing that is symbolized.
I would personally be horrified to see someone burn a flag. I have served the government for my entire adult life.
But I think they should have the right to do it. It is a form of protest about the government, albeit an extreme one, and I think people should have the fundamental right to protest the government, as long as it does not include violence.
I would personally be horrified to see someone burn a flag. I have served the government for my entire adult life.
But I think they should have the right to do it. It is a form of protest about the government, albeit an extreme one, and I think people should have the fundamental right to protest the government, as long as it does not include violence.
Love as thou wilt.
Everything is relative. I work with men who were raised in the Islamic faith who do not practice in that faith; they couldn't care less about the Koran. I also know Christians who would be incensed by desecration of the Bible. Can you not imagine an agnostic veteran who would believe flag desecration to be in the same league as desecration of scripture?
Free speech is relative. If there was a true principle of free speech, no one would fear reprisal for any thing they say or do. We all know that is not the case (anyone remember Jimmy the Greek?)
Free speech is relative. If there was a true principle of free speech, no one would fear reprisal for any thing they say or do. We all know that is not the case (anyone remember Jimmy the Greek?)
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Lord Mhoram
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ChoChiyo
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I have burned several flags. Of course, it was some time ago....when I was in my teens...to protest the Vietnam war.
To me, it was very symbolic. The country that I love is being destroyed--burning the flag symbolized the fundamental principles of the U.S. being destroyed...so the flag, which is the material representation of the country, burns in symbolic harmony with the ideals of the country.
With all I've been hearing about war crimes and government corruption, I can't deny that I feel burning a flag would be symbolic again of the destruction to our national ideals.
I am not about to run out and burn one....but I would understand if someone else did.
To me, it was very symbolic. The country that I love is being destroyed--burning the flag symbolized the fundamental principles of the U.S. being destroyed...so the flag, which is the material representation of the country, burns in symbolic harmony with the ideals of the country.
With all I've been hearing about war crimes and government corruption, I can't deny that I feel burning a flag would be symbolic again of the destruction to our national ideals.
I am not about to run out and burn one....but I would understand if someone else did.
Empress Cho hammers the KABC of Evil.
"If Ignorance is Bliss, Ann Coulter must be the happiest woman in the universe!"
Take that, you Varlet!
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wayfriend
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The only reason anyone is against burning the flag is because it angers people. (Which is, of course, why someone does it -- to make people angry.) So essentially it's a law against making people angry. 
Of course, the more people are stirred up by proposing an ammendment, the angrier people get about it, which just encourages more flag burning. Whereas, if everyone went 'ah, heck', and no one got mad, it'd probably cease to happen. Ironic.
Of course, the more people are stirred up by proposing an ammendment, the angrier people get about it, which just encourages more flag burning. Whereas, if everyone went 'ah, heck', and no one got mad, it'd probably cease to happen. Ironic.
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safetyjedi
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Alynna Lis Eachann
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Flag-burning is a form of protest. You may not like what the people burning the flag are saying by it, but the point is that they are protesting against some government action or position, and the fundamental principle behind freedom of speech is the protection of a citizen's right to disagree with the government.
Personally, I'm not sure how I feel about it. I've always seen fire and burning in a positive light, so I don't see burning a flag as desecration. Now, if you were to stomp the thing into the ground, spit on it, etc... that does bother me a great deal, regardless of whose flag it is. I can't abide people who don't have respect for the cultures and beliefs of those they disagree with. I suppose it is a matter of perspective and intent.
All the same, if you outlaw one form of nonviolent protest, what's to stop you from outlawing all of them?
Personally, I'm not sure how I feel about it. I've always seen fire and burning in a positive light, so I don't see burning a flag as desecration. Now, if you were to stomp the thing into the ground, spit on it, etc... that does bother me a great deal, regardless of whose flag it is. I can't abide people who don't have respect for the cultures and beliefs of those they disagree with. I suppose it is a matter of perspective and intent.
All the same, if you outlaw one form of nonviolent protest, what's to stop you from outlawing all of them?
"We probably could have saved ourselves, but we were too damned lazy to try very hard... and too damn cheap." - Kurt Vonnegut
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"Now if you remember all great paintings have an element of tragedy to them. Uh, for instance if you remember from last week, the unicorn was stuck on the aircraft carrier and couldn't get off. That was very sad. " - Kids in the Hall
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ChoChiyo
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Heh heh
I know.
I still have a baby face.
NO ONE believes I am fifty--but I AM....till November 21, when I will be 51.
Today my chiropractor asked something about college--we were talking about a band that's playing locally, and I said I'd seen them when I was in college. When I said it was 1976 or 77, she squealed and said, "You were still in high school then!"
Nope. I graduated from high school in 1973.
I'm OLD. heheheheh
She claims I look thirty. I say it is the aura of immaturity that I project around myself that confuses people. I actually look my age--people just experience the aura of immaturity and think I'm younger.
Heh heh heh
I know.
I still have a baby face.
NO ONE believes I am fifty--but I AM....till November 21, when I will be 51.
Today my chiropractor asked something about college--we were talking about a band that's playing locally, and I said I'd seen them when I was in college. When I said it was 1976 or 77, she squealed and said, "You were still in high school then!"
Nope. I graduated from high school in 1973.
I'm OLD. heheheheh
She claims I look thirty. I say it is the aura of immaturity that I project around myself that confuses people. I actually look my age--people just experience the aura of immaturity and think I'm younger.
Heh heh heh
Empress Cho hammers the KABC of Evil.
"If Ignorance is Bliss, Ann Coulter must be the happiest woman in the universe!"
Take that, you Varlet!
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safetyjedi
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I agree with you totally that it is a matter of intent, and that perhaps is why this is a very difficult issue with most Americans. I also agree that we should treat everyone's cultures as we would want to have ours treated, that is the ultimate form of respect, but we can't legislate the golden rule, it has to come from our hearts.
Join me and we can end this destructive conflict...
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safetyjedi
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lurch
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Well,,whats next?
...If we allow the burning of the Flag,,whats next? They'll be burning Bra's next I tell's ya.,,What?,,they already are!..Is nothing sacred!!?? Every mans fantasy,,pert and well formed,,disgraced!..What is this world coming to!!?? I do not support the destruction of the tiddy lifter therefore I can not support the desecration of the red blue and white,,errr,,i mean, white ,blue and red,aaaammm,,,imean the pentagram and bars striped thingys...And speakin of bars..A panda walks into a bar, orders a sandwich and a beer. Gobbles down the sandwich, swills his beer,,then pulls out a gun and rips off a few rounds and heads for the door. The bartender says, " Hey wait a minute,,what the heck was that all about?"
The panda says,," Look it up! You'll find out! " and goes out the door. So the bartender gets his encylopedia out and looks up " Panda"..and sure enuf there it was written..Black and white bear like creature, indigenous to South East Asia..Eats shoots and leaves.....
Just about every session of Congress for the last 20 or so years,,included an effort to outlaw the desecration of the Flag. Fortunately, the Senate, in the pass,,has had the wisdom to kill such bills. I am not so sure these days. The problem is..for most lazy thinkers,,the flag becomes an end in itself. What it represents is forgotten or smothered by ones Personal understanding of what it represents. Of course,, that means ,, folks start believing that their Personal Understanding is better or more important or superior than the next guys personal understanding of the symbol. And the sanctimony begins.
...or...how could one ever argue about the Flag when I have it so tightly wrapped about me?....Well,,unwrap it and let it air out in a good breeze is my suggestion. .........Panda joke provided by Gary Killdeere and offer is void in Alabama, Illinois, South Carolina and Guam. ..be sure to check our website at www. dotsRus.com. ...MEL
The panda says,," Look it up! You'll find out! " and goes out the door. So the bartender gets his encylopedia out and looks up " Panda"..and sure enuf there it was written..Black and white bear like creature, indigenous to South East Asia..Eats shoots and leaves.....
Just about every session of Congress for the last 20 or so years,,included an effort to outlaw the desecration of the Flag. Fortunately, the Senate, in the pass,,has had the wisdom to kill such bills. I am not so sure these days. The problem is..for most lazy thinkers,,the flag becomes an end in itself. What it represents is forgotten or smothered by ones Personal understanding of what it represents. Of course,, that means ,, folks start believing that their Personal Understanding is better or more important or superior than the next guys personal understanding of the symbol. And the sanctimony begins.
...or...how could one ever argue about the Flag when I have it so tightly wrapped about me?....Well,,unwrap it and let it air out in a good breeze is my suggestion. .........Panda joke provided by Gary Killdeere and offer is void in Alabama, Illinois, South Carolina and Guam. ..be sure to check our website at www. dotsRus.com. ...MEL
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safetyjedi
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