OK..ive been reading a Game of Thrones...

[Usivius]

Jelerak, regarding spoiler 1, it had to happen. In the way Martin writes his characters,

Spoiler

there was not way Ned was going to survive, and being in a public forum, I 'knew' it was going to be bad... beheading, that's just nasty. He was one of my faves...

But Spoiler #2 did shock me. The only time it happened in the book. But a nice twist.

fw more pages to go. I will give my humble accounting of it soon...

[I'm Murrin]

But Spoiler #2 did shock me. The only time it happened in the book.

Just you wait until book three...

[Warmark]

But Spoiler #2 did shock me. The only time it happened in the book.

Just you wait until book three...

Indeed, that was one of the biggest shocks ive ever had. Utterley unexpected.

[theDespiser]

well, i wouldnt say PREDICTABLE, really...well, the only thing id say is predictable would be the fact that at the end of the series, everybody dies...he seems to be working his way towards that...

[Usivius]

OK, finished. Here are my good and bad (totally personal opinion)

**** SPOILER ALERT *****


The bad:

- Too many characters introduced in the first 80 pages. I felt the author was pushing me away instead of inviting me in to the novel. Granted, all the characters are interesting in some way, but there should have been a better way to intorduce them. This is the first book, after all!
- Too many unnecessary POV chapters. Except for the one chapter where he is 'dropped', I really did not see the point of having any POV chapters for Bron! Frustrating to read from his POV. There are enough chapters with young kids that I didn't really need to have another, especially since nothing good is learned from his chapters that couldn't be told from a better POV character.
- Because there are many characters introduced, I found it difficult to feel 'involved' with them. Ned was killed (I liked him), perhaps a necesasry death in the context of the story being told, but the author seems to specialize in cruelty, and to have the Ned POV chapter leading up to his eventual unhonourable death, I came to clearly realize something about the tale that I merely suspected prior to this: The story seems to be about the necessity for good, honourably people to be as evil and sneaky and unhonourable as those they wish to fight if they hope to win.
-on this line, those who I term 'bad guys' win almost all the time. Almost never do the 'good guys' get a chance to shine. The only moment comes when you read, (SECOND HAND too!) how Robb's army crushed The Kingslayers army. Thay would be a battle I would have liked to read about, similar to the Imp's POV battle chapter. But, no, the author doesn't even give us that bit of satisfaction.
- Too many seemingly minor characters introduced then either killed off or just never mentioned again. One case is that magus healer who Dany 'saves'. She heals the Khal, he eventually dies because he doesn't follow her healing recipe, she brings him alive again in a terrible ceremony, then is herself killed by Dany later in her own 'ceremony'. I look back and think that the character was so unneccesary. Dany spoke of learning a lesson from her, but is was such a minor point, it needed not even be there. What could have been instead: The Khal is injured, his wounds not treated properly, he falls off horse, eventually dies, the 'clan' disperces as before and in desparation, Dany does her dragon egg ceremony when she burns her husband's body. Done.
-OK, I am nit-picking, but so many elements like this bothered me. I like to be so absorbed in a story that I don't have time to 'think', just get carried along in the story. In this one, I was constantly thinking, which allowed me to 'predict' many of the events, especially when you get a feel for how the author writes.
- there are many 'grey' characters, those who are not good or evil, which is fine (look at 'The Gap' novels), but I have not found any (maybe one or two, but they are so far 'minor') characters that I can like enough to make me excited to read more.


The Good:

- I liked the basic plot of the story, the political wranglings of the Houses and betrayals. I like many of the characters, fiding them interesting and with potential, but have not latched on to any yet. Jon is my fave so far (who are living), but I see great potential in 'liking' Tyrion (the Imp), but so far have a hard time sympathizing with a character so blinded by his own cleverness that he can't see the chaos and evil his family commits. I am hoping he gains the strength of character to use his smarts in a better way.
- I like how magic is downplayed, but you can see how it does seem to exist, staying on the fringes.
-the 'mystery' of The Wall and what is beyond is intriging.
-the 'anything can happen' feel. I like that.
- The smug Kingslayer gets his butt kicked! I really liked that, even if it is only done 'off-stage'....

Overall I would objectively give the book an 8 out of 10.
Subjectively i give it 7 out of 10... I'm not sure I will read any more.

I think I will try an Erikson book....

[I'm Murrin]

The only moment comes when you read, (SECOND HAND too!) how Robb's army crushed The Kingslayers army. Thay would be a battle I would have liked to read about, similar to the Imp's POV battle chapter. But, no, the author doesn't even give us that bit of satisfaction.

I thought the Whispering Wood was shown quite well through Catelyn's PoV, IIRC.

- Too many seemingly minor characters introduced then either killed off or just never mentioned again. One case is that magus healer who Dany 'saves'. She heals the Khal, he eventually dies because he doesn't follow her healing recipe, she brings him alive again in a terrible ceremony, then is herself killed by Dany later in her own 'ceremony'. I look back and think that the character was so unneccesary. Dany spoke of learning a lesson from her, but is was such a minor point, it needed not even be there.

This is partly justified by something in the next book. Also, Dany had to sacrifice her son for her husband's life, which is definately an important point from that particular stoyline.

Jon is my fave so far (who are living), but I see great potential in 'liking' Tyrion (the Imp), but so far have a hard time sympathizing with a character so blinded by his own cleverness that he can't see the chaos and evil his family commits. I am hoping he gains the strength of character to use his smarts in a better way.

Tyrion really comes into his own in book two.

-the 'mystery' of The Wall and what is beyond is intriging.

Gets a lot more time. Book three is were it gets really good.

Overall I would objectively give the book an 8 out of 10.
Subjectively i give it 7 out of 10... I'm not sure I will read any more..

Shame.

[Usivius]

I thought the Whispering Wood was shown quite well through Catelyn's PoV,

I didn't think so. All that is described is the screems and shouts of combat, but none of the first hand detail as in the previous battle.

This is partly justified by something in the next book. Also, Dany had to sacrifice her son for her husband's life, which is definately an important point from that particular stoyline.

Good point. Hadn't thought of that.

Well, thanks for you input. I may "hang in there" as I see potential, but don't want to read so much and be disappointed as I have with series in the past. It's better to be disappointed with one book, not having to read 5 (of a bazzillion in the case of Jordan!)

thanks murrin

[theDespiser]

welp...finished the second one now...and i still have the same complaints...


i still enjoyed it though

[theDespiser]

ok, so i started A Storm of Swords the other day...so far so good...

[Worm of Despite]

I believe the first three books are masterpieces. It's not "deep" stuff like TC, but it's blood and intrigue done in a most masterful way. I remember having to pinch myself while reading A Storm of Swords, in disbelief that an author could keep improving after each fantasy installment. Surely, he would pull a Jordan sooner or later?!

And indeed; it's such a shame, because those three books were amazing. I think it's an affront to their high standards that I can smell a bit of Jordan coming from Martin's typewriter. GRRM has let himself get carried away, and the pace of the 4th book shows this. I read the first three books religiously, but I simply can't deny that my interest is flagging. In fact, I didn't even buy the hardcover Feast for Crows--I bought an e-book copy and read it on my computer!

If Dance with Dragons is halfway done, then I expect it to be very much like Feast for Crows. That's unfortunate. I will read this series all the way through (as long as Martin doesn't end the 7th book with "we have defeated all the evil people...but wait, there's the Dark One all of a sudden!")

[theDespiser]

well, it happens to every writer eventually...they have such a clear vision for the whole series, and when they start, they have all these ideas...and start off with a certain quality..eventually their gonna start to feel the pressure to equal, if not surpass, those first books...and while they may still have that clear vision still intact, tedium starts to creep in, slowly but surely...or sometimes they just try to fit too much in and lose some of the story...

Jordan did that with the last couple of books...i liked em, i like the ivolvement with teh characters, but...nothin really happened...He got back on track with Knife of Dreams...that was a really good book...finally progressed things nicely...my only complaint is that he left some other characters out that i would have been very interested in seeing something done with...other than that...


im about half way through a Storm of Swords...still pretty good...but...he doesnt give anybody a break, does he?

[Worm of Despite]

I must confess, I skipped most of the Bran chapters in SoS, simply because Martin left me hanging off such a cliff when it came to the characters I liked most. I should probably go back and reacquaint myself with Bran, since I'm sure he will factor into Dance with Dragons.

[Roland of Gilead]

In defense of Martin, I think the pacing of Feast is marred by the decision to write the entire story for half the characters, instead of the other way around.

I think had we been treated with chapters of Jon, Dany, Tyrion, etc., interspersed within the other chapters, Feast would have flowed better and with more suspense, just like the first three novels.

It's a shame, really, that Martin and his publishers felt compelled to give us half a book. I was as big a complainer as anyone out there, that five plus years was too long to wait for a novel in a fantasy series . . . but the resolution to the problem may have carried too high a price to pay.

[Loredoctor]

I have to say I am loving A Game of Thrones. It's gritty, tense, realistic, and has better magic than any other fantasy (it's subtle).

[Farm Ur-Ted]

In defense of Martin, I think the pacing of Feast is marred by the decision to write the entire story for half the characters, instead of the other way around.

I think had we been treated with chapters of Jon, Dany, Tyrion, etc., interspersed within the other chapters, Feast would have flowed better and with more suspense, just like the first three novels.

It's a shame, really, that Martin and his publishers felt compelled to give us half a book. I was as big a complainer as anyone out there, that five plus years was too long to wait for a novel in a fantasy series . . . but the resolution to the problem may have carried too high a price to pay.

I'm getting near the end of Feast. The beginning of the book was pretty frustrating, but it definitely gets better. I think George would've been better served if at the conception of the series, five had been the magic # and not seven. There are just too damn many kingdoms, and I can think of two that are heavily featured in Crows that could take a flying leap.

[I'm Murrin]

I think George would've been better served if at the conception of the series, five had been the magic # and not seven.

Edit-Nevermind, misunderstood your post.

[variol son]

I think he meant five kingdoms as opposed to seven (the North, the Riverlands, Dorne etc etc). I like seven myself, although I haven't read AFFC. Looking forward to the Dorne chapters, even if they have gotten a lot of criticism.

[stonemaybe]

Halfway through GoT and loving it! Thanks to everyone on KW who recommended it!

[Loredoctor]

Halfway through GoT and loving it! Thanks to everyone on KW who recommended it!

[lucimay]

i've just finished GoT today.

i'll have to say that i'm compelled to continue just to see what happens to the dragon girl and the wolf boy (danys and jon).

i was hideously disappointed that

Spoiler

Ned was killed

and i really like the dwarf so i hope he doesn't turn all bad or get killed off. (don't tell me anything!!)

i'm eager to see what's beyond the wall.

and i really loved the Dothrahki (sp?) people.

i don't love it better than Erikson, but i like it!

thanks dANdeLION!! for the birthday present!!