THE END OF FIRST CHRONS

[caamora]

I'm sure this has a thread somewhere but I cannot find it. Goodness knows we have re-hashed every point of these books ad infinitum!

Anyway, if you could change the end of the first chrons, what would you have happen? It is kind of weak having everyone laugh Foul into oblivion and it would not look good on film.

So, how would you end it?

[matrixman]

You're right that the whole laughing scene would not work too well on film. (I've never said this before, but even as it is in the book, the scene was always a little awkward in my mind.)

How would I end it? Well, purely as a movie, I would be brutal and cut out the laughing. Maybe after the exposed Foul makes his speech daring Covenant to finish him off, just skip right to Covenant having his final words with Foamfollower before he engages the Illearth Stone in a last contest of power.

Then, um, Foul's Creche blows up real good...and we cut to High Lord Mhoram at Glimmermere, and I'd keep the remainder of the scenes more or less the same as in the book.

That's my lunch hour brainstorm for ya.

[Zarathustra]

Wouldn't change a thing. SRD is the man. Who cares how it would look on film?

But since you brought it up. . . with the right actors, it could work. After all the dark, dire stuff that happens in the trilogy, I think people would find it a relief, and appropriate. But still . . . there was a lot more than laughter going on. There was TC FINALLY unleashing some power after touching the Illearth Stone.

[Buckarama]

Yeah, who'd care? Well just about everyone, heh.

I would think about something like Foul is winning the last battle, and then Foamfollowers laughter is what gives him the mental charge needed to continue fighting and that's how he beats him. But you'd have to make it clear that TC was beat without Foamfollower, his contribution shouldn't be minimized in anyway. Just off the top of my head anyway.

[dlbpharmd]

I've always thought the whole laughter scene was weak. I think MM has a good idea - once Foul is exposed from the penumbra, TC could turn to the IS and let the wild magic duke it out - Foul would be diminished by having to spend his power to protect himself from the battle between the wild magic and the IS. That explanation would work.

[Buckarama]

Yeah, I understand the show of power would be impressive, I would just hate to leave out Foamfollower. He played an important part and don't forget the "pure One" that has to come out in TWL.

[Brinnor]

I seem to remember that Covenant could have finished Foul off ... but decided not to. The power display would kinda go against that, and also bring up the problem of how Foul comes back in the 2nd chrons.

And I don't want to see Foamfollower done out of his part in it.

But I must admit, I'm having trouble seeing the laughing thing working onscreen.
As an alternative, perhaps Foamfollower could convince Covenant to restrain himself, and merely imprison/weaken Lord Foul?
It would also make a nice illustration of Hotash Slay's "purification", a cleansing of Foamfollower's former bloodlust, in that he doesn't even want the Despiser totally destroyed.

[Buckarama]

Yeah with my way they would have to set it up well. Maybe even giving the giants laughter power. Set u p a scene where Foamfollowers laughter pulls TC's butt out of the fire early in the story.

Again just thinking through my fingers.


Or maybe have Foamfollower hold him while TC beats the snot out of him!

And sorry about the edits, I'm working and trying to post. Should slow down a bit

[Loredoctor]

You're right that the whole laughing scene would not work too well on film. (I've never said this before, but even as it is in the book, the scene was always a little awkward in my mind.)

How would I end it? Well, purely as a movie, I would be brutal and cut out the laughing.

Well said.

[wayfriend]

I've always thought the whole laughter scene was weak. I think MM has a good idea - once Foul is exposed from the penumbra, TC could turn to the IS and let the wild magic duke it out - Foul would be diminished by having to spend his power to protect himself from the battle between the wild magic and the IS. That explanation would work.

You absolutely can't do it that way. This is too close to the ending of the second chronicles - you're making the Second Chronicles into a repeat before it even begins!

Foamfollower needs to laugh. The Dead need to laugh. It's not the laughter of joking, it's not the laughter of spite - it's the laughter of life, it's the laughter of being alive and Foul in a corner instead of the other way around. Laughter with tears in it.

I guarantee you - if you do it the right way, and add the right score, show the right thing on the faces of the Dead, on the face of Covenant - you'll have everyone in the audience with a soul crying.

[Loredoctor]

Foamfollower needs to laugh. The Dead need to laugh. It's not the laughter of joking, it's not the laughter of spite - it's the laughter of life, it's the laughter of being alive and Foul in a corner instead of the other way around. Laughter with tears in it.

I think we all understand why they laugh All we are saying is it's not the best ending. I remember cringing when I read it.

[wayfriend]

oops ... I'm in movie mode.

[High Lord Tolkien]

The laughter ending is fine.
It's different enough that an audience might enjoy it just because it *is* different.
Plus you still have the IS to deal with for a final climatic battle ending.
All that we'd need would be for Foamfollower to mention that the IS is about to explode and corrupt the Earth and TC has to stop it.
Or something like that.

There was no fantastic battle with Sauron in the Return of the King movie.
And the Emperor died pretty quick in Jedi.

[caamora]

I agree that Foamfollower would have to laugh. He is intregal to the end. I like Buckarama's idea.

HLT also has a very good point that it IS unique.

I just always thought it was a little weak also.

[onewyteduck]

I'm inclined to agree with Wayfriend on this one. Foul fed on negative emotion. Covenant had to be angry to trigger Wild Magic. Giving into anger would have fed Foul and Foul would have gotten stronger.......same thing as Luke being unable to destroy Darth Vader.

And if it's conveyed improperly yes, it would be bad.

I didn't find the ending of PTP weak. I found it moving and fulfulling. Just my 2 cents!

[matrixman]

And I stand by my .

At least caamora has made me reassess how I feel about the ending of TPTP. In most respects, I think it's a satisying finale. But I'm still not totally satisfied by the idea that laughter saves the day, though I can understand SRD's noble intent. Maybe I didn't cringe as Loremaster did, but I probably rolled my eyes a few times.

I could imagine Covenant thus: "Oh, never mind that Foul. I'm not gonna finish him off cuz he deserves his day in court. That way, through a legal loophole - a Flaw in the Law, get it? - he can come back stronger and make life even more difficult for me. But you Lords, you gotta stop being so gloomy and lighten up. Foul's beat, don't ya see? Now go outside and play! Remember, joy is in the ears that hear! Ha ha! Joy oh joy!" (starts doing cartwheels and almost hugs Foul in brotherly love)

Hmm, a Covenant parody. Yeah, that's the ticket...

[dlbpharmd]

I could imagine Covenant thus: "Oh, never mind that Foul. I'm not gonna finish him off cuz he deserves his day in court. That way, through a legal loophole - a Flaw in the Law, get it? - he can come back stronger and make life even more difficult for me. But you Lords, you gotta stop being so gloomy and lighten up. Foul's beat, don't ya see? Now go outside and play! Remember, joy is in the ears that hear! Ha ha! Joy oh joy!" (starts doing cartwheels and almost hugs Foul in brotherly love)

And the score crescendos -

"All we are saying
Is give Peace a chance"

[matrixman]

"All you need is love
(everybody now!)
All you need is love
All you need is love, love,
love is all you need..."

(the spectres of the dead Lords sway to the music)

[wayfriend]

I didn't find the ending of PTP weak. I found it moving and fulfulling. Just my 2 cents!

[Fist and Faith]

The laughter is extraordinary, and could not be left out. But it need not be seem anti-climactic in a movie, and I do understand how that could be. You have to think of it this way: If Foamfollower had broken in on his own and found Foul, would he have been able to win the day by laughing? No. He would have shown us the same courage; taught us the same joy; shown us, and himself, that, despite everything, he was still Saltheart Foamfollower. We could still learn to remember who we are. But Foul would have turned him into a large, red smear on the floor. Then Foul would have laughed, and, with a confused look on his face, said, "What the hell was that all about??"

It wasn't just the laughter. Covenant directed the laughter - the letting go of hate, the healing, the joy of life - into Foul. Foul's being cannot coexist with those things, and he normally protects himself from them. But this time he couldn't, because wild magic is stronger than he is.

That can be shown on the big screen. When the strongest force uses the very best facet of Giants and humans to destroy what is both the most powerful and most evil being there is... Well, I imagine a lot of pretty lights could be used.