Runes, Prolouge, Ch. 2: Gathering Defenses

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Runes, Prolouge, Ch. 2: Gathering Defenses

Post by caamora »

This chapter opens with Linden asking Roger to exit Joan's hospital room so they can speak in private. Linden is uncomfortable with the fact that Roger was able to connect with Joan and seemed to know what was wrong with her. He had information that Linden lacked.
"You knew that would happen."
Linden's accusation is apparent.
"I'm her son. She raised me."
Clearly Roger knows something that Linden does not. Also, this seems to insinuate that Joan has been this way for some time.
Also,
"I know exactly what's wrong with her . I know how to treat it. You can't justify keeping her now."
"That's no answer."
Linden obviously does not like Roger's assertion of knowledge.

Roger insists that he is the only one who can care for Joan. Linden is not about to give control of Joan over to Roger. She instinctually does not trust him. She senses something terribly wrong with him. Linden tells Roger to leave the hospital but not before he asks for his father's wedding ring, asserting that it is part of his father's estate and therefore, should go to him. Linden curtly tells him that it was a gift to her from his father before his death.

After Roger leaves, Linden goes on alert. She speaks to the kindly, senior security officer at the hospital who assures her that he will keeps his eyes out for Roger. He and his boys will be ready if anything "dangerous" happens.

Linden then calls Megan Roman, TC's attorney while he was alive. Linden asks if Megan has spoken to Roger and if she knows what he is up to. At first, Megan tells LInden of the conversations she had with Roger regarding his upbringing in the gruesome Community of Retribution. Linden tells her that Roger is a possible danger and Megan tells her to give her all the details if she is to bring suit against him or a restraining order. Megan suggests that she call good, ol' Sherrif Lynton.

Linden calls home to make sure that Jeremiah is ok. She has worried about his safety ever since she laid eyes on Roger. Sandy, her sitter, says that Jeremiah is fine and that she will call Linden if anything goes wrong.

Still troubled with Jeremiah's safety, Linden calls Sherrif Lynton and leaves a message for him. When he returns her call, she informs him of her concerns about Roger Covenant. Lynton had spoken to Roger and found him to be a "pleasant guy." Lynton, easily snowballed by Roger's charm, ignores Linden's worries and tells her that she has been working at the mental institution for too long. He hangs up on her.


This chapter raises many questions: Why is Linden so threatened by Roger? Is it really because she sees something evil in him? Or, is she simply jealous that he knows what is wrong with Joan and can help her whereas she, Linden, is helpless in alleviating Joan's torment?

Also, why is Roger so unpleasant? It seems that he is able to use his charm to get his way (with Lynton and Roman) but is he too much like his father in his unpleasant disposition?

Roger said that he could take Joan's place. Does he really want to take her place and release his mother? Does he want to see an end to her agony? Or, is he really evil and is this all just pretense to get Linden - and the white gold - back into the Land?

Linden also seems to be sitting back on her Sunsage laurals. She seems obsessed with being The Chosen.
She was Linden Avery the Chosen, who had stood with Thomas Covenant agains the Land's doom. Men like Sherrif Lynton - and Roger Covenant - could not intimidate her.
She is no longer the underdog in the Land like she used to be. It doesn't really work that way in the Land. The Land has plenty of heros already. All the people in the Land are capable of great and good works. Linden seems too gung-ho to go to battle against anyone who opposes her.
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Post by dlbpharmd »

Hooray! Runes dissection is off to a great start - thanks, Caamora!
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Post by Relayer »

When I first read this chapter, I found myself wondering if Roger knew who Linden was, what her role in the Land was. I assumed so... he asked Megan a lot of questions about her. And he's been connected w/ Foul for some time. Plus, as the reader, we know SRD wasn't going to put Covenant's son in just for the heck of it :)

Roger almost acts like Foul himself... he's able to be so arrogantly charming, everyone but Linden believes him. Everything he says is so plausible, no one would question it unless they understood the context of the Land. I think she is intuitively aware that he's evil, and it may even be that she's subconsciously able to recognize that thru the fact that they both share the experience of the Land. She's threatened by him because she does recognize the danger, at many levels. He probably also acts the way he does to her, because he knows who she is and is trying to bait her into trying to keep Joan in the hospital.

Something I just thought of: Roger and Jeremiah were both at the Community of Retribution... but I don't remember the timing of when Roger was there? Roger would've been about 11 when the 2nd Chron took place. He already might know who Jeremiah is. Heck, they might've been playmates! :twisted: Could this all have been part of Foul's plan?

Of course, she could just let Roger take Joan, thereby sparing Jeremiah. But I'd guess that Foul wants revenge on her so Roger is acting in a way that will ensure that she'll resist. He can play on the fact that she does see herself as the Chosen, who will not back down.

Otherwise, the whole 3rd Chronicles would only be a few paragraphs long :)
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Post by dlbpharmd »

Something I just thought of: Roger and Jeremiah were both at the Community of Retribution... but I don't remember the timing of when Roger was there? Roger would've been about 11 when the 2nd Chron took place. He already might know who Jeremiah is. Heck, they might've been playmates! Could this all have been part of Foul's plan?
Confused - they were both at the same commune? I missed that.
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Post by Seareach »

dlbpharmd wrote:
Something I just thought of: Roger and Jeremiah were both at the Community of Retribution... but I don't remember the timing of when Roger was there? Roger would've been about 11 when the 2nd Chron took place. He already might know who Jeremiah is. Heck, they might've been playmates! Could this all have been part of Foul's plan?
Confused - they were both at the same commune? I missed that.
Well, they were all definitely members of the Community of Retribution (Joan, Roger, Jeremiah and his mother). Whether they were "together" at the same commune at the same time...who knows. I think Relayer has an interesting point.
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Post by I'm Murrin »

I believe we were shown in Linden's vision (later) that Joan left the commune after she got possessed, and left Roger with her parents while she went to Covenant. That would be just a few weeks before The Wounded Land, I think. It's possible Jeremiah's family and Joan and Roger were in the group at the same time.


Linden's reaction to Roger seems a little defensive at this point in the story. On the one hand, you want to take Linden's side, after all what does Roger know about what happened? But on the other, you can't see why Roger comes across so threatening. Linden could just be reacting to something she sees as threatening the position she's made for herself in these things - to Roger she's just an outsider.
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Post by drew »

caamora wrote:Linden is not about to give control of Joan over to Roger
Very profound statement. I'd say this is a micro-cosim of what will happen throughout the final chronicles.
Linden will not give control over to Roger. Not control over Joan, not controll of Covenant, not controll of Jerry, and NOT control of the White Gold.

This Chapter certainly begins a mystery of How Roger came into this knowledge.
Was in really in the Land?
(If so how was he able to get back--his summoner would have to die right?)
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Post by wayfriend »

Thanks, caamora!
caamora wrote:She is no longer the underdog in the Land like she used to be. It doesn't really work that way in the Land. The Land has plenty of heros already. All the people in the Land are capable of great and good works. Linden seems too gung-ho to go to battle against anyone who opposes her.
In chapter one, Linden discusses how her life is fulfilling and complete. There's no hint that there's any unresolved internal struggle, as Covenant had in LFB, as Linden had in TWL. In fact, the author goes out of his way to point out the opposite.

She doesn't need to go to the Land. She has no existential crisis which she needs to resolve by fighting for something in the Land. The Land only needs people from the "real world" who do.

And earlier, "The Land was Covenant's doom, not hers."

Linden should not be in the Land. What we see of her further in the story, where we think about her making a mess of things, I think we need to remember: She's not supposed to be in the Land. So anything she does could be dangerous for that reason alone.

- - - - -

I wonder how it was that Roger was curious about Linden before meeting her. It definitely points to someone giving him information on the side. (The story seems to indicate that most people don't see Linden and Covenant having had a relationship.)
'According to him', Megan began, 'he doesn't remember much of his early life. [and then] Sourly, Megan concluded, 'He said - this is a direct quote - "I was just passing the time."'
This sounds suspiciously like a doppelganger - like someone who looked like Roger was substituted for Roger. The supposed lack of memory. And then just passing the time until they are ready to act.

Of course, instead of a doppelganger, it may be a Raver! Could Roger have been a Raver all that time? It explains how he knows the significance of Linden. Consider the statement "If she failed, I would need to take her place." Somehow that reminds me of Ravers moving from one body to another. He also said "If I don't take her place, she'll never be completely free."

Also, the way Roger was so condescending to Joan - like he was her superior - that sounds like how a Raver would speak, I think. They're arrogant bastards if nothing else.

Either Roger is a Raver, or, like Pieten, he was greatly influenced by one, and serves them.

- - - - -

Some discussion points I wish to raise.

:?: "You knew that would happen." And in the previous chapter, "There's something that I want to show you." So Roger planned to demonstrate his influence over Joan from the start. To convince Linden to release Joan?

:?: "I've never heard her scream like that." Probably Joan in despair because Jeremiah didn't "free her" right then. For all their connection, Roger and Joan don't know a lot about each other. Roger didn't know she was hitting herself. He didn't know Joan had a ring. Joan doesn't know when Jeremiah will free her. Under the circumstances, that's incredibly significant IMO.

:?: Roger was unmoved by seeing his Mom's ring, and remains avid for Dad's. It's clear that not any white gold ring will do. Is that "the legacy" that he is after? The ring? And it's power?

:?: Is there significance to the fact that Roger went to med school, and then became a butcher? It's almost like he was preparing himself to be some sort of dismemberment expert. ( I know SRD too well to think that this is insignificant. ) Think about what he asks Linden to do later...

:?: "You've know idea what you're interfering with." And earlier, "The knowledge has to be earned. And you haven't earned it. Not the way I have." -- This is an eerie version of the same thing Covenant said to Linden in TWL. Is it irony that this time it is used by the bad guy? Or is it a hint that Roger is merely misunderstood and we should trust him as we did Thomas?

:?: Why does Roger want the Farm. What does he need it for?

:?: The Sherriff is the only person who liked Roger. heh.

- - - - -

I want to mention all of the foreshadowing that appears in this chapter.
Over my dead body.

People were going to die -

Any attack on her would find [Jeremiah] in the line of fire. [...] If Roger had designs on Covenant's ring [...] Jeremiah might be hurt in the struggle.

"I told him to burn [Haven Farm] to the ground.
What, then, should we make of this? Is this it?
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Post by Zarathustra »

Is there some kind of schedule posted somewhere? I'm a chapter behind you guys, but I'd like to participate in the discussion (if not the dissection).
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Post by danlo »

Yes it's stickied right above this, it's called Sign Up to Dissect The Runes of the Earth-sign up! 8)
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Post by Torrent »

Just one thing:
Wayfriend wrote: In chapter one, Linden discusses how her life is fulfilling and complete. There's no hint that there's any unresolved internal struggle, as Covenant had in LFB, as Linden had in TWL. In fact, the author goes out of his way to point out the opposite.
Did you really get the impression that her life is complete?

To be honest, when Jeremiah was first mentioned I thought that he might be a new partner.
Of course, it's been a couple of weeks since I read the first chapters, but although it is stressed that the love for Jeremiah gives her all she needs, I still think it's odd that Linden hasn't had eyes for other men. Or do you think that's the way it should be?

Okay, she loved Covenant and in a sense I think it is very romantic and satisfying for me as a reader that she hasn't 'betrayed' their love.

But in a certain way I was disappointed because Linden seems - although changed and 'healed' by her experiences with Covenant - to lead a life that's still very isolated or insular. She seems to be the kind of person who is possessed by/dedicated to one thing (earlier her guilt, now her love for Jeremiah, and of course her profession) and doesn't look left or right.

She's still young, she's still a woman, she has found in herself the capacity to forgive and love and be loved - and that's it? She's clinging to the memories of the one love that she had? I see a new potential for bitterness here.

Also, do you think that it's meaningful in some way that Jeremiah is somebody who doesn't really actively reciprocate her love and that he's totally dependent on her? Which also means that he's always going to stay with her, never leave her?

In a way I pity her. And I've already got the impression that...oh no, I'll wait with that till we've reached another chapter (I haven't finished Runes yet so this might be total nonsense). :)
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Post by danlo »

Doesn't strike me as a lot of "tempting" men live in that town to begin with...especially if Sheriff Lytton is any example. 8)
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Post by Relayer »

Murrin wrote:I believe we were shown in Linden's vision (later) that Joan left the commune after she got possessed, and left Roger with her parents while she went to Covenant. That would be just a few weeks before The Wounded Land, I think. It's possible Jeremiah's family and Joan and Roger were in the group at the same time..

That's how I see it too, haven't had a chance to correlate w/ the books yet. Isn't the group that sacrificed TC in TWL from the Community of Retribution? And Jeremiah's family was part of that... I don't think they'd just joined, so likely they were there at the same time (there's some info about his mom and history in a later chapter but I don't remember the details... at this point we don't know anything about his condition. SRD breaks it to us slowly over the first few chapters).

Torrent wrote:
Wayfriend wrote:In chapter one, Linden discusses how her life is fulfilling and complete. There's no hint that there's any unresolved internal struggle, as Covenant had in LFB, as Linden had in TWL. In fact, the author goes out of his way to point out the opposite.


Did you really get the impression that her life is complete?
I really didn't get that either. There's a line that says something to the effect of "Jeremiah filled the hole in her heart that was meant for Covenant." She still longs for TC, more than anything, and misses being able to make such a huge difference like she did in the Land. Somewhere it also says her work now fulfilled her, but in a much smaller way, not like the grandeur of the Land. She seems willing to accept that her life is how it is, but to me it seems that the way SRD wrote it, he wants to convey that something still IS missing.
Wayfriend wrote: :?: "I've never heard her scream like that." Probably Joan in despair because Jeremiah didn't "free her" right then. For all their connection, Roger and Joan don't know a lot about each other. Roger didn't know she was hitting herself. He didn't know Joan had a ring. Joan doesn't know when Jeremiah will free her. Under the circumstances, that's incredibly significant IMO.
Jeremiah would free her? I must've missed that. Do you mean Roger? She begged him to "make it stop."
(on the other hand, that might be exactly what happens... at some level, Jerry is like TC's step-son, and hence Joan's too... quite a lot of possibilities w/ the implications of that).
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Post by dlbpharmd »

Linden should not be in the Land.
This begs the question: who should be in the Land? Roger? Jeremiah?
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Post by wayfriend »

Relayer wrote:
Wayfriend wrote: :?: "I've never heard her scream like that." Probably Joan in despair because Jeremiah didn't "free her" right then. For all their connection, Roger and Joan don't know a lot about each other. Roger didn't know she was hitting herself. He didn't know Joan had a ring. Joan doesn't know when Jeremiah will free her. Under the circumstances, that's incredibly significant IMO.
Jeremiah would free her? I must've missed that. Do you mean Roger?
Yes, I meant Roger. Oops.
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Post by caamora »

Wayfriend said:
This sounds suspiciously like a doppelganger
...when referring to Roger. I had a thought: could it be that the Roger who turns up at the hospital IS a doppleganger/raver of some sort? What if Jeremiah is the real Roger? They are about the same age. They were both in that commune. How appropo (sp?) that Linden care for Roger - disguised and well-hidden from Foul's eyes. That could be a mechanization of the Creator's or of TC's.

Does that sound too far-fetched?
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Post by I'm Murrin »

Jeremiah is too young - he's around 15, wouldn't have been born at the time of the First Chrons.
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Post by dANdeLION »

Yeah, too far-fetched.

First...well, I'm operating on memory here, so it's likely to be inaccurate, but here goes: If I remember correctly, Jeremiah was injured in that crazy séance thing back in the beginning of Wounded Land, and if he were Roger, certainly Thomas would have noticed him.

Second, I'm pretty sure Joan mentioned Roger being with her parents. Again, memory. (I'm sure I'll be properly chastized if I'm off here. :biggrin: )

Third, there's no way Foul would have used Roger back in the 2nd chronicles; he was using Joan, and it would be just like him to keep Roger for his next attempt at the white gold, assuming the 2nd attempt failed, which it did. That's why I think Roger is Foul's tool this time: he could very well be a Raver; I just think he's the real Roger.

My last point is purely speculative (heh, just like the first three): I believe Linden will not save the Land this time. If you look at the 1st 2 chronicles, Thomas saved the land the 1st time, and Linden saved it the 2nd time, which means that the Creator knows how good Foul is at adapting his game to win a second confrontation, so he chooses a different savior each time to keep Foul off his game. Jeremiah's autism may be a type of protection, like how Thomas was protected by the Elohim in the 2nd chronicles. Anyway, I think he'll come out of it, and have to defeat Foul and re-establish the law of death. I don't doubt that Linden and Thomas will do plenty, but I think the Land will need a new hero this time. Anyway, that's the fun of speculation!
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Post by dlbpharmd »

SRD said something in the GI awhile back about characters from the Land being "too big" to come to our Earth. I'll try to find that reference. Based on that, I can't see how Roger might be a Raver. I can see that he could be delusional, and thus easily susceptible to Lord Foul (just as the people were who kidnapped Joan and killed Covenant in TWL.)
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Post by dANdeLION »

I could see him being posessed by a raver; he has the arrogance of a raver, plus what he does nex.....AHHH! SPOILER! :biggrin:
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