The Latest Potentially-Explosive Racially-Charged Murder

[Hashi Lebwohl]

The point being made is that media sources should refrain from running wild with a story based on one or two "eyewitness" testimonies, especially when those "witnesses" have an agenda or narrative they are trying to push. In this case, the "eyewitnesses" wanted to fabricate a story about a white guy doing the killing so black people would start being upset with white people all over again.

Why aren't these "eyewitnesses" being charged with "lying to investigators"?

[Avatar]

By now I think we all know how unreliable "eyewitness" testimony is.

--A

[Gaius Octavius]

Why aren't these "eyewitnesses" being charged with "lying to investigators"?

Too busy getting donuts, I guess.

[Skyweir]

Maybe they are? I would charge them .. as it is not only an offence to lie to police, but its obstructive.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

as it is not only an offence to lie to police, but its obstructive.

That depends upon the circumstances. If they are investigating something and I am being questioned then, yes, if I tell a lie I have committed at least one crime. On the other hand, if I see someone commit a crime, run past me, then turn down an alley and a minute or two later a police officer asks me "which way did he run?" if I lie then I have not committed a crime--I can reasonably claim, even in a court of law, that I did not notice which way the person ran. If I am not actively being interviewed or investigated, then I am not obligated to assist the police in doing their job.

*************

I just reread this thread going back to November 2016, after Trump's election. Despite the assertion that Trump, his supporters, and the nation in general being more racist now than it was a mere 5 years ago there have been zero "explosive, racially-charged" murders which have garnered national attention. This is more evidence to prove the hypothesis that "outrage" over those sorts of murders is nothing more than an avenue for pushing an agenda.

[Skyweir]

We are talking about witness statements.. which are only taken in an investigation Hashi. If you lied and said a black guy or a white fur did it ... knowing full well you have no clue, or your intention is to mislead police .. its an offence.

The police .. at least here arent interested in your opinion .. if you claim to have witnessed the crime, seen who perpetrated the offence .. and lied about it .. you should be charged. No ifs, buts, depends or maybes.

And these were the facts described in this scenario.

[Cail]

I just reread this thread going back to November 2016, after Trump's election. Despite the assertion that Trump, his supporters, and the nation in general being more racist now than it was a mere 5 years ago there have been zero "explosive, racially-charged" murders which have garnered national attention. This is more evidence to prove the hypothesis that "outrage" over those sorts of murders is nothing more than an avenue for pushing an agenda.

That's absolutely not true. Aside from the Pittsburgh synagogue, there have been incidents in Texas, Kentucky, Chicago, New York, and Tennessee.

I agree that more is made of these events than should be, but let's not pretend these things don't happen.

[Ur Dead]

7-year-old Jazmine Barnes, a young black girl, was killed in a drive-by shooting about a week ago. Initial reports stated that the shooter was a white man in his 30s, causing activists to demand that it be investigated as a hate crime.

Whoops. Police in Houston have arrested Eric Black Jr., a 20-year-old black man, in connection with the killing.

"Mistaken identity", indeed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Khs9lTrCux0

A young black man talks about this.

[Skyweir]

I just reread this thread going back to November 2016, after Trump's election. Despite the assertion that Trump, his supporters, and the nation in general being more racist now than it was a mere 5 years ago there have been zero "explosive, racially-charged" murders which have garnered national attention. This is more evidence to prove the hypothesis that "outrage" over those sorts of murders is nothing more than an avenue for pushing an agenda.

That's absolutely not true. Aside from the Pittsburgh synagogue, there have been incidents in Texas, Kentucky, Chicago, New York, and Tennessee.

I agree that more is made of these events than should be, but let's not pretend these things don't happen.

This ^^

[Hashi Lebwohl]

NYPD has released the photo, but not the name, of the suspect for whom they are looking in connection with the murder of Tessa Majors, who was white and a student at Barnard College. The suspect, who is about 14 years old, is a black male.

Now...if the colors were reversed there would be hordes of people in the street calling for "justice" and "black lives matter". This is not happening at this time. Is that because white lives don't matter? Is it because the suspect is black? Does the NYPD really think that people are going to snitch on this young man, especially now that he has the street cred of knifing someone to death for their wallet?

Dallas is set to top 200 murders this year, which has not happened in a long time. Most of the murders are black-on-black, which even FBI crime data shows is the normal trend for murders across the nation. Where are the cries for justice there? If, as these people claim, black lives matter then shouldn't they be interested in seeking justice regardless of the skin color of the perpetrator?

CNN, bless their woke little hearts, is not publishing pictures of the person of interest nor are they making mention of the skin tone of the person in question. This is not surprising in the least.

On the other hand, that case out of Fort Worth where the cop shot a woman in her own house without identifying himself (he is white; she was black)...well, he just got indicted on a murder charge by a grand jury. Justice is being served there, and rightfully so, even if it takes a few months.

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

Baltimore, as Cail was wont to point out, is a city of 600,000 people. To date there has been 333 murders this year, and 9 of them were white.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

The death of George Floyd at the hands of Minneapolis Police--they restrained him by having one officer put his knee on Mr. Floyd's neck to hold him down while two other officers stood by and watched--has resulted in the first part of justice--the officers have already been fired.

Now, of course, we have the looting and rioting going on because people are upset about it. erm...protesters? Auto Zone did not kill anyone, so why did you burn their store? Target did not kill anyone, so why did you loot them? They did not have anything to do with Mr. Floyd's death whatsoever. Still, some people are always willing to take advantage of a situation and will proceed to riot and loot because they know that right now police will not step in to stop them.

Apparently the protesters are not concerned about corona, either, because they are not rioting and looting in a socially-distant manner. Also, who is going to get upset over the person who wound up being killed as a result of the rioting? Where will that person's family obtain justice, through more looting?

[Zarathustra]

The riots only prove that a strong police force is necessary. These don't make violent clashes with the police less likely, they make them more likely.

According to the Minneapolis Star Tribune, "kneeling on a suspect's neck is allowed under the department's use-of-force policy for officers who have received training in how to compress a neck without applying direct pressure to the airway. It is considered a 'non-deadly force option,' according to the department's policy handbook."

However, "a chokehold is considered a deadly force option and involves someone obstructing the airway," and the police department's handbook mandates that officers "only an amount of force necessary that would be objectively reasonable."

Seems we need to wait for the autopsy to see if the guy actually died from strangulation or a heart attack (or other). If he didn't die from the knee-to-neck move, then this was totally legal and the protests are (once again) totally irrational, unjustified reaction. If he DID die from the knee-to-neck, then it was still an irrational, slightly less unjustified reaction. Let the law handle it, don't become a criminal yourself.

[Kizza]

So when does Purge Night begin? There would not need to be many riots after Purge Night.
I doubt there would be republicans or dems, or left or right after that either.
Something tells me that there would still be black or white tho. We arent nearly Starship Enterprise enough for that.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

In neighborhoods like where these riots are occurring--including the spontaneous riots going on in other cities where no one died at the hands of police--typically have Purge Night once per month.

One of the Target looters who agreed to be interviewed on camera--wearing a mask, obviously--stated that the reason looting Target was okay was "because they make money off of us". So....in a predominantly black neighborhood Target opens a store, which hires local people and gives them paychecks, helps bring a stabilizing force to the community by being a place where people can work and shop, generates sales tax revenue for the community, and gives back to the community through donations and charity events, this guy thinks that Target is exploiting the neighborhood and so they deserve to be looted? And people wonder why some businesses choose not to open in predominantly black neighborhoods.....

Target will clean the store, restock it, increase its security measures, and carry on. Auto Zone--the one which rioters burned--will probably say "fuck it" and close the location. If rioters hit that Target again, though, the location will close and take the jobs and economic impact with it.

Some other dumbass said "we are all to blame". Excuse me? How the hell am I to blame? I don't live in that area, am not a police officer, and had absolutely nothing to do with it. Oh, wait, I forgot--I was born white and therefore that makes me part of the problem because I am not on a street corner apologizing for my race. The irony: thinking that white people are part of the problem of racism simply because they are white is, itself, a racist idea.--prejuding people based on skin tone.

[Avatar]

If he DID die from the knee-to-neck, then it was still an irrational, slightly less unjustified reaction. Let the law handle it, don't become a criminal yourself.

Much as I agree with you, I suspect the problem is that from their point of view, it was the law that did this, so how can they be trusted to handle it?

--A

[Skyweir]

The riots only prove that a strong police force is necessary. These don't make violent clashes with the police less likely, they make them more likely.

According to the Minneapolis Star Tribune, "kneeling on a suspect's neck is allowed under the department's use-of-force policy for officers who have received training in how to compress a neck without applying direct pressure to the airway. It is considered a 'non-deadly force option,' according to the department's policy handbook."

However, "a chokehold is considered a deadly force option and involves someone obstructing the airway," and the police department's handbook mandates that officers "only an amount of force necessary that would be objectively reasonable."

Seems we need to wait for the autopsy to see if the guy actually died from strangulation or a heart attack (or other). If he didn't die from the knee-to-neck move, then this was totally legal and the protests are (once again) totally irrational, unjustified reaction. If he DID die from the knee-to-neck, then it was still an irrational, slightly less unjustified reaction. Let the law handle it, don't become a criminal yourself.

First I agree that the law should handle it and people should not take the law into their own hands and risk becoming criminals themselves.

On this I completely agree with Trump .. its no way to honour George Floyd and his pointless death.

However, the problem seems to be that there are concerns about the law handling it. Right?

In no police training ever is kneeling on a suspects neck an advisable or appropriate method of taking someone in to custody. Ever. That is so obviously stupid and quintessentially negligent.

Its like US law enforcement has no training whatsoever in use of proportionate force.

And lets not forget context ... this guy was suspected of committing a NON-violent crime. He was unarmed and zero threat at all ... the whole police response was over the top and badly handled. Its no wonder the two cops were fired. You dont want cowboys like that on the job.

I still horrified at the Sean Bell shooting .. police discharged their firearms 50 times. 50 times

Totally excessive and unnecessary .. and worse the law handled it .. The Department of Justice announces that they will not pursue federal civil rights charges against the police officers and the officers involved were acquitted.

When you have the law not delivering justice .. its only natural there will be protests.

However, despite appreciating that understandable community response .. there is no justification or excuse for breaking that same law themselves.

I can not justify vigilantism, opportunistic capitalising by looters and turning to property damage.

But there is irrefutably significant issues with US law enforcement... that really needs to be addressed.

[wayfriend]

The murder of a man for no good reason is a worse crime than rioting.

The fact that his murderers will not be held accountable is a worse crime yet.

So here we are, again, at KevinsWatch, promoting outrage at what black people do and glossing over the worse crimes committed against black people. That's the modern white supremacy movement for you, in a nutshell.

White people have power. They don't NEED to riot, and that is the ONLY reason they don't. They send in the National Guard and the riot police when they are threatened. They have power. Black people are powerless against injustice, and that's why they riot.

Focusing on the rioting without putting it into context is just another way of promoting outrage against black people.

Yeah. My signature stays. It's necessary.

[TheFallen]

Wayfriend, a couple of simple questions for you.

Is the rioting in Minneapolis justifiable? NB not comprehensible... justifiable.

Is the looting in Minneapolis justifiable? NB not comprehensible... justifiable.

I'd like an answer that avoids obfuscation and conflation... so, one that doesn't include or in any way look to the fully acknowledged truism that murdering someone is a worse crime than rioting. Or looting.

PS your statement that George Floyd's killers will not be held accountable under the law is currently merely a prediction and not a matter of fact. It may turn out to be accurate, I grant you (and of course I hope it doesn't and will be utterly appalled if it does) - however, presenting prediction as fact brings nothing of value to the debate. Quite the reverse in fact.

PPS Sky, absolutely. On all points.

[Zarathustra]

The murder of a man for no good reason is a worse crime than rioting.

I agree that murder of one person is worse than one person looting. However, the murder of one person is not worse than multi-city riots/looting by 1000s. Society can't fall apart because one man dies. Murders happen every day. If we looted cities every time someone is murdered, then we wouldn't have a civilization anymore.

So, what you're saying is FUCKING CRAZY. But your imagined moral high ground shields you from the sheer stupidity of your own mind.

Furthermore, it hasn't been established that this was murder. It takes a trial to determine that. You know, a justice system. You are pronouncing judgment without trial, with limited evidence, and mob rule. Everything you're saying is anti-law and anti-society. You're not on moral high ground, you're an anarchist.

So here we are, again, at KevinsWatch, promoting outrage at what black people do and glossing over the worse crimes committed against black people. That's the modern white supremacy movement for you, in a nutshell.

No one is promoting outrage. Advising people not to become criminals in response to a perceived wrong isn't outrage, it's actually pretty good advice. You don't get justice by looting Target. It's counter-productive. Do people who "promote outrage" use words like "counter-productive?" No. It's a logical argument. You're the one promoting outrage. As usual.

White people have power. They don't NEED to riot, and that is the ONLY reason they don't.

So black people NEED to riot? It's an essential need? I thought you believed that social distancing was essential for society. I guess there are some exceptions to your principles, when you're OUTRAGED. Then it's okay to ignore the health of the entire country.

What do black people ever achieve by fulfilling this "need?" Nothing. How does stealing from Target balance the scales of justice? We're not talking about a need. It's shitty, amoral people taking advantage of public outrage as an excuse to engage in petty crimes.

Nearly every civil right advancement which this country has achieved happened without looting. Did gays get gay marriage by looting Target? Nope. Did women get the right to vote by looting Macy's? Nope. You're emotional, outrage-laden drivel is completely ignorant of CONTEXT, as you say.

Focusing on the rioting without putting it into context is just another way of promoting outrage against black people.

Yeah. My signature stays. It's necessary.

Like I said, you're the only one promoting outrage. It's not racist to say that people shouldn't loot. But in your outraged-warped, race-baiting mind, it is. In any sane conversation, we'd all agree that looting innocent businesses is fucking nuts. You're on the side of looting, lawlessness, and destruction of society. Enjoy that "high ground."

"Let's empathize with lawless thugs because they're BLACK" doesn't make you a champion of racial equality. It makes you an anti-society, anti-white racist. You're the racist, Wayfriend. You.