The Semantic Apocalypse

[[Syl]]

I should probably hunt down my old "narrowing gap between science fiction and reality" thread for this one, but... am I the only one that finds this a bit chilling?

Scientists Translate Brain Waves Into Speech

[Lazy Luke]

What's a bit chilling is if this technology were to be used on an animal, like a dog or a cat. Any creature that can lick it's own private parts is best to remain dumb!

[Avatar]

Terrifying. Tin-foil hats here we come. (Except they're ineffective...Faraday cage hats?)

--A

[Vraith]

I should probably hunt down my old "narrowing gap between science fiction and reality" thread for this one, but... am I the only one that finds this a bit chilling?

Scientists Translate Brain Waves Into Speech

Maybe...but not really...not yet...

IF however, they did the reverse...used a stimulator to CAUSE brainwaves that made the person to think the word the machine sent....

[lucimay]

What's a bit chilling is if this technology were to be used on an animal, like a dog or a cat. Any creature that can lick it's own private parts is best to remain dumb!

i'd give my right arm...no my left arm...well maybe not, i'd give SOMETHING to know what my dog is thinking. or my cat.


and yeah...when I think about it, there would be something sorta scary about an AI that could read my brain waves. nobody wants to know what's going on up there, I promise you!!

[Skyweir]

Thats pretty awesome actually .. and I too would love a Star Trek like translator that would allow me to communicate with animals. That would be incredibly awesome. Though tbh as much as that is a definite plus, communication is a lot more than just speech, especially in the Animal world.

As to the science .. yeah not there yet but ..

The key piece of technology that makes this possible is the translation algorithm, which could still be improved a great deal. With a more advanced algorithm coupled with a better understanding of the brain, we might someday be able to actually give people who lack speech a real alternative.

And not sure theres an advantage in programming speech is there V? I mean to give those without speech .. the ability to communicate their own thoughts .. thats pretty awesome without encroaching on the autonomy of the individual

But you might have nefarious plan in mind.

Pretty brilliant I say.

[Zarathustra]

I think it's interesting that not a single person has expressed skepticism that this will even be possible. I thought that's what we do when someone talks about not-yet-proven technology. Weird.

Anyway, I'm curious why anyone would expect this to translate animal "thoughts" into human speech. Surely the problem with talking to your animals isn't that you can't read their minds, but instead that there isn't anything at all resembling human speech in their minds to read?? Maybe this isn't the case for primates that can use sign language, but dogs and cats? I seriously doubt there is anything there to translate.

[lucimay]

I think it's interesting that not a single person has expressed skepticism that this will even be possible. I thought that's what we do when someone talks about not-yet-proven technology. Weird.

yeah not the least bit skeptical. I guess I've read so much science fiction that nothing seems really impossible. this is probably a bad example but it's the first one that comes to mind; I remember the first time I read The Stainless Steel Rat and marveling over the card Slippery Jim Digriz carried around with him. he just stuck the card in the machine and paid for things. I thought that was soooo handy!! then came ATM cards and machines.
another thing that comes to mind is dick tracy's communication watch.
technology has come a pretty long way since I was a little kid so that to me, at this point, nothing seems exactly impossible or even improbable!

Anyway, I'm curious why anyone would expect this to translate animal "thoughts" into human speech. Surely the problem with talking to your animals isn't that you can't read their minds, but instead that there isn't anything at all resembling human speech in their minds to read?? Maybe this isn't the case for primates that can use sign language, but dogs and cats? I seriously doubt there is anything there to translate.

you're probably right about that. it's a silly notion to imagine that we could even translate our pets' thoughts. it was just a daydream for me. i'll tell you what motivated that daydream for me. I have always had a really rough time emotionally when there was something I really needed to communicate to my dog or cats in times of crisis and I worried for *their* emotional well-being. for instance, most recently Harry slipped on an icy step coming onto the deck a couple of months ago and faceplanted, knocking one of his lower canines out, root and all. it had pierced and was sticking through his lip and blood was everywhere. apparently it didn't much hurt because he seemed to be in no pain and confused by my tears. he seemed to be trying to comfort me. then, when we got to the vet, he seemed confused as to why we were there and panicky when the docs took him back to the OR to take the tooth and the one next to it out and stitch him up. I would really have loved to be able to verbally communicate to HIM what was going on, to be able to let him know that everything was going to be alright. so, I would love the technology to be able to translate TO HIM what was going on. or at least translate to me what he was thinking so I could've tried to address it.

silly I know, but that's where my thoughts went at the idea of communicating with my pets.

[Vraith]

I think it's interesting that not a single person has expressed skepticism that this will even be possible. I thought that's what we do when someone talks about not-yet-proven technology. Weird.

That's kinda funny, Z.

Once. [[ all things considered.]]

But, just in case you think you have an actual point....
Just read for comprehension.
The article told exactly what they did, what they didn't, how it was done, what it can't do yet and might never do.
YOu can even LISTEN to part of the RESULTS.

In this forum are MULTIPLE other examples of tech and brainwaves research.

What they DIDN't do is have a board person, who isn't even actually a scientist, say
"We can CURE ALL SPEECH DYSFUNCTIONS [[but we can't even tell you what we did in one petri dish]].

My response was laden with doubt. Everyone's responses were practically DRIPPING with speculation/what if's.

And not one person asked "It's Columbia, in NY, are those fuckers Israelis/Jewish...if so fuck them."

So it was clever/amusing...and it was directed at me, and I don't give a damn for me, especially if it's a little witty.
But fair warning---And I don't think this is new, think I said it before here...this isn't the tank, and I have a different approach than Hashi...be cautious with that shit in my domain. I'll Edit it about once, and warn. Then I'll start deleting posts.

[Vraith]

And not sure theres an advantage in programming speech is there V? I mean to give those without speech .. the ability to communicate their own thoughts .. thats pretty awesome without encroaching on the autonomy of the individual

But you might have nefarious plan in mind.

It would be pretty awesome.

As for the nefarious---
I was just thinking about:
Words/speech have a complicated and complex web of connections and feed-back loops with thinking/thought itself...to the extent that most people do most of the thinking they're aware of in words...the thinking generates the words [and most even "hear" their thoughts in what their own voice sounds like to themselves.]
But the path isn't that direct, it isn't one-directional, it isn't all conscious, and it isn't separate---it's flowing with all the other kinds of thinking, conscious and not, and many other functions we don't really think of as thinking, but kinda are.

SO: If what you think creates/generates/chooses/whatever the word---and given all the above---THEN...mightn't the reverse be possible? words/stimulations create the thinking? Instead of your thoughts causing the machine to speak...the machine causes you to have particular thoughts.

---even that, if true, though USEFUL for "nefarious" purposes, wouldn't necessarily be nefarious---it could well lead to the best, most efficient, most complete/expansive teaching system ever.
In a pretty concrete way, it would combine listening/seeing/demonstration and DOING into a single, simultaneous thing...learning from the inside and outside at the same time. Observing and participating/creating all at once.
AND [[eventually, way on out there]] it would be almost totally error-free. You pretty much COULDN't "misunderstand" anything being taught to you.

[Ur Dead]

Just hope that it never gets invented...
That would cause more problems once it became pocket size.

How would you feel if you knew your boss was angry at you.
Or spouse, neighbor, friend...
or hear a doctor say about your upcoming operation.
"This is going to pay off my house!"

Nope.... we don't need that.
or thought police.
"Sir/Madam we heard what your thinking.. in violation of law xxx
your under arrest"

[Avatar]

Yeah, agreed.

--A

[High Lord Tolkien]

Might be an interesting interrogation tool.
How can you turn off your mind from answering the question?
You could try to think of other things but the true answer is going to be the first in line I think.


"Where did you hide the body?"
"Where is the bomb located?"
"Have you ever cheated on your spouse?"

[Skyweir]

Wow that would be fabulous.. in limited circumstances brilliant

But yeah in general cant see it getting up the flag pole .. but I can certainly see an application that could definitely 1.be abused and 2. be exploited