The Mueller Investigation

[Skyweir]

Scroll back we have already shown the Investigation has paid for itself and then some.

Google it if you cant be arsed scrolling back through the thread.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

That is about the only "win" the Mueller team has, then. The BBC article summarized the convictions/pleas/charges as I did months ago:

Manfort - sentenced for financial fraud - absolutely unrelated to anything connected with Russia and the election whatsoever

Cohen - pled guilty to "lying to the FBI" and campaign finance violations re Stormy Daniels - unrelated to anything connected to Russia whatsoever

Flynn - pled guilty to "lying to the FBI" - absolutely unrelated to anything connected with Russia and the election whatsoever

Gates - pled guilty to "lying to the FBI" and financial fraud - absolutely unrelated to anything connected with Russia and the election whatsoever

van der Zwaan - pled guilty to "lying to the FBI" - absolutely unrelated to anything connected with Russia and the election whatsoever

Papadopoulos - pled guilty to "lying to the FBI" - absolutely unrelated to anything connected with Russia and the election whatsoever

Pinedo - pled guilty to "identity theft" - absolutely unrelated to anything connected with Russia and the election whatsoever

Stone - charged with obstruction, lying to Congress, and witness tampering - absolutely unrelated to anything connected with Russia whatsoever

all those Russian officials - what was the point? They will never be brought into a court in the United States unless they risk coming here, betting that they won't be caught before they leave.

In other words, the vast majority of the charges were "lying to the FBI", which would not have been a crime had the investigation never taken place. The money is irrelevant--the Investigation was a monumental waste of time.

I don't feel sorry for Democrats--they wanted a smoking gun but all they got was two-day-old pizza. Now they have to scramble to find a new smoking gun so they can make it part of their reelection campaign next year.

[Ur Dead]

It's over.. No collusion..waste of money.

When that info came out the Democrats went into a
enclave...

[sgt.null]

Democrats wasted all this time.
Will continue to waste time instead
Of actually governing. Seems they
Want a second Trump term

[Gaius Octavius]

"Hello, I'm Tom Steyer, and I'm a worthless cuckhold who is still shilling on Youtube for Blumboerg Drumpf to be impeached a day after the Mueller report was released."

[Skyweir]

Its a bit too soon for cork popping yet lads

Perhaps you just dont understand how investigations work.

Allow me to enlighten you

The Mueller investigation was and still is an intersection of congressional, criminal and multiple counterintelligence investigations. Mueller has fulfilled his mandate and in doing so proved unequivocally Russian involvement in the 2016 elections. Thats something that should be of interest, even to you, no?

The investigation itself under Mueller ... resulted in the laying of 215 criminal charges, progressed 38 indictments and, so far, 8 convictions and 5 sentencing outcomes.

That is far from nothing, or a waste of resources. Mueller has recouped the costs relative to the investigation in seizures in excess of 20m and that figure continues to climb as ongoing threads continue.

Now this is where you need to pay attention lads Mueller has directed all ongoing cases to relevant jurisdictions, for their pursuit.

Mueller in conjunction with the multiple counter intelligence operations, uncovered a web of foreign influences in US domestic elections as demonstrated in the lengthy list of foreign nationals charged. And there are ongoing threads re that as well.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ource=fbia

https://twitter.com/sethabramson/status ... 12386?s=21

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ource=fbia

But more interestingly

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ource=fbia

At least three investigations in this district have not yet concluded. Prosecutors are reportedly looking into the financial dealings of Trump's inauguration committee, which took in a record $107 million for the festivities surrounding his inauguration, in January 2017. In February, prosecutors subpoenaed a wide range of documents from the inauguration committee, and investigators seem particularly interested in whether it took money from donors connected to Middle Eastern governments.

Prosecutors in the Southern District of New York are also reportedly looking into whether Manafort, as chairman of Trump's campaign, illegally coordinated with a pro-Trump super PAC, Rebuilding America Now, and whether that super PAC also received donations from people connected to Qatar and other Middle Eastern countries. These investigations have not yet led to any indictments or charges.

Two lobbying firms indicted for their failure to register as foreign lobbyists, Mercury Public Affairs and the Podesta Group, have also not reached a conclusion in their cases. A third firm, Skadden Arps, settled its case in January.

... Three unresolved cases in ... [Eastern District of Virginia]. Kamil Ekim Alptekin, an associate of former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn, was indicted and charged for acting as an agent of the Turkish government and lying to the FBI. He has not appeared in court and, as far as we know, hasn't been arrested; his case is unlikely to be resolved quickly for that reason. Another Flynn associate, Bijan Kian, is still awaiting trial for failing to register as a foreign agent after working on behalf of the Turkish government. Kian has pleaded not guilty.

Prosecutors have also indicted Elena Alekseevna Khusyaynova, the accountant for the Internet Research Agency, the Russian troll farm that authorities believe created fake social-media accounts to influence United States elections. She has been charged with crimes relating to interfering in both the 2016 presidential election and the 2018 midterm election. Though a warrant has been out for her arrest since last October ...

The ongoing cases in the D.C. District Court are almost all related to the WikiLeaks release of hacked emails from the Hillary Clinton campaign and the Democratic Party.

A number of Trump associates charged as part of the Mueller probe are still awaiting sentencing in this district as well.

Konstantin Kilimnik, another Manafort associate charged with obstruction of justice and conspiracy to obstruct justice, has also been indicted, but has not yet appeared before the court.

.... [The] Department of Justice was investigating Elliott Broidy, a prominent Republican fundraiser, for possibly attempting to cash in on his connections with the Trump administration by requesting millions of dollars from foreign governments in exchange for pushing the administration to take actions benefiting those countries. ProPublica reported in March that federal investigators had, at some point during the previous year, raided Broidy's Los Angeles office. Their search warrant authorized them to seize a wide range of evidence related to Broidy's contacts with foreign governments, including the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Malaysia, and China, as well as people including Rick Gates.

And theres soooo much more .. but I have work to do.

[Skyweir]

Honestly if I was American, Id be damn proud at the results of Muellers thorough investigation. Fulfilling his mandate in 21 months and recouping its costs .. and handing off significant ongoing cases to relevant jurisdictions.

All wrapped neatly and judicially in a nice bright red bow.
Good work Republican Mueller. Kudos to you and your team.

[sgt.null]

Sky - did you ever think that your
Condescending attitude might be
Offputting to people who actually
Live here in America?

It's funny that you mentioned that
Mueller is Republican after he has
Failed to deliver collusion. The
Thing he was tasked to do.

[Skyweir]

I apologise if my saying I would be proud if I was American offended you.

But I would be. Im surprised you and even other conservatives arent. Mueller has performed with efficacy, fulfilled his mandate in record time, delivered an impressive number of outcomes, with more to come.

I 100 percent give my kudos to him.

I dont follow you point on Republican aspect?

Do you feel he let his party politics down by not proving a non existing crime? You are arguably blinded by your own bias re this issue.

Only Trump touted collusion. Mueller, not at all.

However, Russian interference he unequivocally proved. So whats the problem?

You know he is restrained from going after Trump, re the DOJ policy limiting an action against Trump, right?

Did you read any of the information I provided above? You might find it enlightening

[aliantha]

I find it fascinating how you guys are so certain about what's in the report -- that it clears Trump and all -- when the only people who have read it so far are Bob Mueller and William Barr.

Barr's letter to Congress said simply that he had received Mueller's final report (as he was statutorily required to do) and he hoped to have his executive summary ready to hand to Congress (as he is statutorily required to provide) as soon as possible, and maybe by the end of this weekend. Here's a link to the actual letter: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 250287002/

Seth Abramson tweeted an excellent summation of what it all means and what's likely to happen next. Here's a link: https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status ... 9581712386

For the TL;DR crowd and the "I don't Twitter" folks: There are three parts to what's popularly known as the Trump-Russia investigation: Muller's criminal investigation; the counterintelligence investigation, which Mueller's work feeds into; and the congressional investigation. All of them are ongoing -- including the criminal part of the investigation, with the trial of Roger Stone still to come.

The counterintelligence investigation is the one the FBI started *before* the election, based on George Papadopolous telling an Australian diplomat in a London bar that he'd heard the Russians had thousands of Hillary's emails.

The congressional investigation is just now getting going in earnest, of course, since the Republicans dragged their feet for two years instead of doing their constitutionally-mandated duty properly.

So don't pop those champagne corks yet, you guys. It ain't over yet.

[sgt.null]

Ali - keep hope alive. The left did promise
That Mueller would force Trump from office.
It seems that beating Hilary cannot be any
Thing other than him beating a poor choice
Of candidate by the left. Or a coronated one.

Sky - you can not be obtuse to how you post.
You felt it necessary to explain how investigations
Work to the people putting up with them. And the
Use of Republican before Muellers name seemed
Off. Like someone using his political lean to justify
The outcome of his report. We were told during his
Witchhunt that he was above reproach no matter
How many leftist infected his staff.

[Avatar]

Trump campaign did not coordinate with Russia in 2016

The Justice Department said on Sunday that special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation did not find evidence that President Donald Trump's campaign "conspired or coordinated" with Russia to influence the 2016 presidential election.

Mueller also investigated whether Trump obstructed justice but did not come to a definitive answer, Attorney General William Barr said in a letter to Congress summarizing Mueller's report.

The special counsel "does not exonerate" Trump of obstructing justice, Barr said, and his report "sets out evidence on both sides of the question".

After consulting with other Justice Department officials, Barr said he and Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein determined the evidence "is not sufficient to establish that the president committed an obstruction of justice offense"...

--A

[Ur Dead]

I would have thought that this would be a major discussion point.

[Zarathustra]

I would have thought that this would be a major discussion point.

We were told that this isn't an American forum and if we want freedom of speech to go the fuck somewhere else.

I left the Tank over a week ago, and I will quickly go back from whence I came after this post. My last Tank post.

This should be something that all Americans can be happy about. Guess what! It is now a demonstrable fact that our President didn't collude with the Russians! Yay! Why are we told not to "pop the cork yet" when we should ALL be popping the cork!?! That's an amazing win not only for Trump supporters, but all of America. Did the Dems *want* Trump to be a Russian colluder?? Shouldn't this be a massive relief??

The answer is simple: there is little discussion of this issue, relative to its massive importance, because this isn't the outcome that the Dems were hoping for. They don't give a fuck about any conclusion other than guilty. They actually *wanted* Trump to be guilty. And now they're pissed that they didn't get what they want.

This has never been about protecting us from Russian interference. This has always been about taking down a President the Dems don't like.

That's crystal fucking clear now.

I have no desire to continue political discussions with people like that. People who are still holding out hope for taking down our President, instead of celebrating the fact that he has been proven innocent by the most exhaustive process we can imagine??? Holding out hope for a Congressional investigation? Are you fucking serious? You think that a bunch of Congressmen are going to find something that the FBI and career investigators didn't find???

Wishful, naive thinking of the most despicable kind: hoping that our President colluded with Russia. That's appalling.

The Tank might have been a little dull at times when it was mostly a right-leaning echo chamber (in the sense of lacking conflict--not lacking insight). But at least I was talking to people whom I could respect.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

The Mueller investigation was and still is an intersection of congressional, criminal and multiple counterintelligence investigations. Mueller has fulfilled his mandate and in doing so proved unequivocally Russian involvement in the 2016 elections. Thats something that should be of interest, even to you, no?

No, it did not--there was NO PROSECUTABLE PROOF of Russian collusion with anyone or anything. Period.

The Mueller Investigation is over and the smoking gun the Democrats hoped for did not materialize. Now their task turns to changing the goal posts, continuing Congressional investigations in hopes of finding something for which they can nail Trump, and complaining that somehow Mueller was prevented from doing his job even though the report also showed no evidence of obstruction from the Trump Administration.

I didn't bother reading anything else you posted about it because there isn't anything else to say about the Investigation itself--it did not prove that which people claimed it would prove.

If any of you think that people in Congress don't already have the full report, even if they haven't released it, then you are probably being naive. This story is over, regardless of how many times you try to think that it isn't--wishful thinking is wishful.

As Z noted--I hope you stay but I can't make you do anything--the Democrats begin from the presumption "Trump is guilty of something" and then proceed to try and find the evidence which supports their presumption--that is not how investigations work. Only when actual, tangible, evidence of something is uncovered do you spend 2 years and millions of dollars trying to find out what was done and who did it.

2 years. If FBI investigators--professional investigators who have spent their adult lives looking into things to uncover the truth--could not find any proof of collusion with Russia then it didn't happen.

The Investigation--this one, at least--is over. Period. Nothing of significant importance to see here. The Congressional investigations will continue, of course--more of that "we know he's guilty, damnit, and we'll find the proof eventually" thinking. Good luck with that--I hope you have enough time to investigate Trump *and* run for reelection, because every day House Democrats spend wasting time on Trump is another day they cannot proceed with burning things down via democratic socialism.

[Skyweir]

Well Z then you should be happy instead of bitter, no? Pop your cork.

Isnt it better having a demonstrated outcome as a result of a thorough investigation? Of which you note?

Regardless of the outcome for you personally, Russian interference was proven. Collusion is not a crime and therefore in and of itself was not investigated.

Conspiracy however, was investigated. A number of Trump campaign members have been found to have engaged with foreign nationals and that aspect is ongoing.

Trump has not been so much as exonerated, as not pursued for a number of very compelling reasons.

I am glad you are happy with the outcome .. but the report is 90 pages long .. and contains a lot more information about the specific aspects of the Soecial Counsel mandate than that highlighted.

I cant see the freedom of speech implication as being entirely relevant, but thats just me not following that particular point.

[Zarathustra]

So much for my dramatic exit . . .

Sky, I'm not popping corks because I'm not on Team Trump. I didn't even vote for the guy. I'm more concerned that we have been subjected as a country to the LIE that our President was a Russian agent. This has been proven to be a hoax. And yet our media (which devoted over half a million articles to this hoax) didn't even pretend to have objectivity on the fallibility of the allegations. THIS WAS A LIE. That is now demonstrably proven. THERE WASN'T A SHRED OF EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT. And yet our media ran with it as if it were true.

I'm not going to link it for you, because at this point I don't give a damn. But if you truly are interested in the truth (which I don't think you or any Dems are), then you can easily Google how over 50 "bombshell" revelations by the mainstream media about Russiagate were false and had to be retracted. But Dems kept believing! Even in the TOTAL absence of evidence and a track record of over 50 bombshell revelations being false, Dems kept the faith!

We have just witnessed an attempted coup. I'm not celebratory, I'm fucking pissed. Hillary tried to reach from beyond the grave of her dead campaign and get rid of a sitting President. She did so with LIES from Russians. They literally weren't true. We know that now. It's not a conspiracy theory. The Hillary campaign paid for the LIES that led to our FISA court authorizing our government to spy on her opponent. And the spying authorization led to a 2 year investigation into BULLSHIT. It was nothing all along. And yet we were led down this rabbit hole by her campaign opposition "research" which was misinformation from the Russians.

The opposing view is no longer a conspiracy theory. It's no longer even possible to say that the "fake news" and "witch hunt" were just Trumpisms. He was right. It was fake and it was a witch hunt. The Mueller report doesn't just exonerate him, it proves that the effort to get rid of him was based on a lie. I don't understand how you guys on the other side didn't see it. It ORIGINATED from unverified opposition research from the Hillary campaign. That didn't make you the least bit suspicious??? I know that you could cling to some hope of justification as long as Mueller was investigating, but now that his investigation is done, can't you finally admit that it was a fucking hoax??? It wasn't real??? It was an attempted coup??? It was based on LIES???

This is what is outrageous. The Dems tried to overturn the results of a democratic election which they didn't like. They used a conspiracy theory and lies to do it. Somehow (we NEED TO KNOW HOW), those lies were sufficient to launch not only an investigation, but also justify FISA court approval of spying on the opposition campaign. That kind of shit shouldn't happen in America! And the mainstream media used illegal leaks from the intel community (which they should have learned after WMDs weren't reliable), and a host of false reporting, to lead the American people to believe that this process was somehow legitimate.

We can't simply brush aside the results of the Mueller investigation. This is groundbreaking, astounding, world changing. We just witnessed a coup fail. Now what are we going to do about it? Trump was right! Are we going to shrug our shoulders like we did after Ferguson burned (due to our believing lies by Dorian Johnson)? Are we going to shrug our shoulders like after the Baltimore riots (due to believing the lies about Freddie Gray)? At some point we have to face the fact that Dems believing lies leads to horrible consequences. This is much worse than a couple cities burning. This was an attack upon our democracy. Just because you don't like the President who was being attacked doesn't diminish the fact that the Dems--and millions of their supporters--were WRONG. They didn't even try to fact check the allegations. They were complicit in accepting the mainstream media narrative. They allowed our media to drop over 50 "bombshell" stories on them--which were false--without even questioning it. The corrections to those false narratives were done without anyone even noticing.

We notice now. You Dems did this. You tried to subvert democracy. And we're fucking pissed at YOU. This isn't some game where one side wins and one side loses, and the winners pop a cork. You guys tried to say that our President was a Russian agent and you were fucking wrong. We didn't win. Our entire country just barely escaped defeating itself. I don't know what the hell Dems are thinking, but at some point we've got to realize we're on the same team. Beat us at the ballot if you can, but don't launch an investigation based on bullshit lies from opposition research. And definitely don't cheer on that bullshit investigation as if it were legitimate. Be intellectually honest.

Is that asking too much?

[Gaius Octavius]

BBC: Mueller report got it largely right about Trump

BBC: Best Day of Trump Presidency

Even the left-biased BBC is giving Trump positive coverage for once. If people were so gullible as to believe Trump was guilty of something something Russia, sorry you've been duped by Democratic Party lies. Days before Mueller report was released, even Nancy Pelosi publicly said that they would not impeach Donald Trump because there was nothing to go off of. It was a hoax from the beginning designed to make up for a piss-poor election performance by doing well in the midterms.

Also, I cbf to search for the quote, but I recall that you, Skyweir, literally stated that you were sure he was guilty of something. Now it's time to eat crow.

[Skyweir]

Ok Z .. lols _ re the dramatic exit

I hear what you are saying .... but the investigation was based on actual counter intelligence data indicating Russian interference as that is an undisputed fact. With the exception of Trump who for some inexplicable reason felt the need to defend Putin AND Russia.

You remember when he denied Russian interference when his intelligence agencies orocidex proof of it, to him?

Collusion just isnt a thing .. thats a Trump catch cry.

Quite personally Id love to see good in Trump but he has NOT been exhoberated. He has not been acted upon.

Thats a political decision that Mueller and Rosenstein have made. Its directly affected by agency policy.

There are 90 pages of the report that detail the intelligence and facts collected. First Mueller has demonstrated INSUFFICIENT evidence OF conspiracy between Trump and a foreign state.

Thats a good thing.

Insufficient does not mean no evidence at all. It means insufficient given all the variables .. Trump BEING the sitting President ... insufficient to form a prosecutorial case against him.

And still thats a good thing.

Secondly obstruction of justice ALSO not recommended because again SITTING PRESIDENT and the evidence against Trump re conspiracy is weighed against the evidence for TRUMP .. and thats allegedly set out and occupies a third of the 90 page report.

Granted the Media ran with Collusion. Stupid .. but what news outlet wouldnt? They're in the business of news mongering.

I dont think any of the evidence, the convictions nor the continuing prosecution cases indicate any semblance of innocence. Members of Trumps campaign DID associate with foreign nationals and inappropriately .. enough to be criminal? Those who may have .. we are yet to see. Stone is being tried in. Ovembrr. Theres Butina and other foreign nationals who have been charged with interference but will likely never answer those charges unless they step on US soil. So they would be foolish to do so.

Its not exactly a whitewash.

I may not be aware .. but what did Mueller find re Clinton?

I dont see the Investigation as a conspiracy to overturn the election result. Like that could credibly happen? Thats certainly not how I see Mueller operating.

Im not convinced being outraged is all that useful. Its just more divisive. Trump is still in power .. for good or ill. This may well play to his ultimate favour .. re 2020.

[sgt.null]

Sky - deny a you like. But the
American people [except hard
Core Democrats] see this for
What it is. And they will not be
Happy with all the leftists in
Congress pissing more money
And time down the drain on this.