Thoughts on Eating Out
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- peter
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Thoughts on Eating Out
I've been a fan of eating out since I was knee high to a grasshopper. I've wasted more money in restaurants than I care to think about and spent inordinate amounts on single meals so that I can experience what the finest artists of the kitchen (because make no mistake - food at it's highest level is most definitely art) can produce. Here's some of what I've learned.
First - a meal out is a performance. It starts at the moment you walk in through the front door and ends at the moment you walk out. Everything in between needs to be choreographed to perfection. If a restaurant is really on the ball, they, like a good masseuse, will never take a hand of you and they will never drop a stitch. Of thousands of meals out (I'd guess - certainly too numerous to count) I've had....mmmmm.......say half a dozen that achieve this level of perfection. On these occasions the food has to be sublime, the timing to perfection, the service good but not intrusive and the whole thing seamless. You have to leave thinking "that was the best meal I've ever had". Because if it's good - really good - the last meal you had will always be the best meal you have ever had. That's just the way that the mind works.
Now onto the meal itself. Over the years of my experience food fashion has changed beyond recognition. We went from the classic seventies dishes of duck a'l'orange and black forrest pudding through nouvelle cuisine to molecular gastronomy (thanks Ferran Adria for that). The trick with menu building is to design it so that people can reach the end. If ever anyone says to me "the food was brilliant - we couldn't eat dessert" I stop listening to them and avoid the place like a plague. What kind of a composer would write an opera that drove you out in the middle? A film maker that threw so much mud at the wall in the first half that you were forced to abandon the end of the film? The performance has been destroyed; the aesthetic lost. What you have been doing is satisfying your biology, not engaging in art.
No, the trick is that each course should build on the last, to finish with a triumphant flourish in the dessert (cheese is taken before dessert and on occasion, converted into an actual dish rather than just plonked on a board) - prior to a good coffe and petit four just to sum it all up. If your man knows his stuff, at that point you will be sated but never stuffed. The meal will have been enough for you to finish without problem, with bread used to fill the gaps where necessary (but not so as you are aware). At no point from the moment you sit until the moment you get up will the invisible hand of the service staff be off you. Your wine glass will never be empty - unless you have finished your wine and declined an offer of more - your bread bowl similarly. The gaps between courses will be timed so that you don't notice them; this means they are neither too short (so that the meal has the impression of being rushed) nor too long (in which case the natural flow of conversation will suddenly cease as you all realise that you are waiting for something). As I say, timed perfectly, you will not even be aware of the gaps between courses - but errors either way will be picked up instantly.
Now I'm not a fan of the new (ish) trend for 'sample' or 'signiture' menus; to my mind, the meal needs to build up to a 'main event' and then scale back down to a sweet fanfare at the end. This seems to me to give the performance a direction that the succession of small dishes of a tasting menu never achieves. But without question, the presentation of food is a million miles from where it used to be. The eye is used to wash the taste buds and dishes these days, in the best restaurants, are works of art. But style must never rule over substance. If a dish looks a million dollars but is indifferent in its tasting then it has failed. Taste must always come first! This is a golden rule. The truth is that even the best chefs cannot do better than you can do in your own kitchen. The umami hit of a crispy bacon sandwich, oozing in butter and hot English mustard will never be approached by anything other than - a crispy bacon sandwich oozing with butter and mustard.....but they will try and approach it and the attempt is worth paying for.
And as to cost - some people balk at paying huge sums to eat in high end restaurants, but I take the long view. I eat three times a day every day of my life. If someone can serve me one of the top five dishes I've eaten in all of those thousands of meals then I'll pay for it. If the performance comes off, if you leave walking on a cloud, then it is worth every penny as much as any ballet or opera - and just as high art. I'd be afraid to tell you how much I've spent on a single meal - ashamed and embarrassed - but I have no regrets. I've come closer to heaven on a plate than I ever managed in a church and you can't say fairer than that.
One last aside - a personal thing really - but I'm getting a bit bored with this top end fashion of beautifully intricate dishes of delightful tasting food. Not being funny but they are ten a penny and pretty standard across the Michelin star restaurants these days. All the dishes are beautiful - they all hit the spot and every one of them would earn a star in its own right. But there is a thing that is really rare, and an absolute joy when you come across it. There is a kind of French cuisine, almost peasant based, not slopped onto a plate but not fine-dinning either, where simple everyday things are just elevated to almost God like levels on the plate. Where new, unknown flavour combinations burst out of the dishes and the meals are both rustic and elevated at the same time. Such chefs are rare birds indeed - I knew one who served asparagus with chive mayonnaise, nothing else, but it was like the first time you had ever eaten it .... and his plain chicken breast!!! These are the guys I want to feed me these days. Simple restaurants with check tablecloths and bone handled knives - and food that makes you want to kneel down and kiss the ground before it. Give me that and I'll be happy!
First - a meal out is a performance. It starts at the moment you walk in through the front door and ends at the moment you walk out. Everything in between needs to be choreographed to perfection. If a restaurant is really on the ball, they, like a good masseuse, will never take a hand of you and they will never drop a stitch. Of thousands of meals out (I'd guess - certainly too numerous to count) I've had....mmmmm.......say half a dozen that achieve this level of perfection. On these occasions the food has to be sublime, the timing to perfection, the service good but not intrusive and the whole thing seamless. You have to leave thinking "that was the best meal I've ever had". Because if it's good - really good - the last meal you had will always be the best meal you have ever had. That's just the way that the mind works.
Now onto the meal itself. Over the years of my experience food fashion has changed beyond recognition. We went from the classic seventies dishes of duck a'l'orange and black forrest pudding through nouvelle cuisine to molecular gastronomy (thanks Ferran Adria for that). The trick with menu building is to design it so that people can reach the end. If ever anyone says to me "the food was brilliant - we couldn't eat dessert" I stop listening to them and avoid the place like a plague. What kind of a composer would write an opera that drove you out in the middle? A film maker that threw so much mud at the wall in the first half that you were forced to abandon the end of the film? The performance has been destroyed; the aesthetic lost. What you have been doing is satisfying your biology, not engaging in art.
No, the trick is that each course should build on the last, to finish with a triumphant flourish in the dessert (cheese is taken before dessert and on occasion, converted into an actual dish rather than just plonked on a board) - prior to a good coffe and petit four just to sum it all up. If your man knows his stuff, at that point you will be sated but never stuffed. The meal will have been enough for you to finish without problem, with bread used to fill the gaps where necessary (but not so as you are aware). At no point from the moment you sit until the moment you get up will the invisible hand of the service staff be off you. Your wine glass will never be empty - unless you have finished your wine and declined an offer of more - your bread bowl similarly. The gaps between courses will be timed so that you don't notice them; this means they are neither too short (so that the meal has the impression of being rushed) nor too long (in which case the natural flow of conversation will suddenly cease as you all realise that you are waiting for something). As I say, timed perfectly, you will not even be aware of the gaps between courses - but errors either way will be picked up instantly.
Now I'm not a fan of the new (ish) trend for 'sample' or 'signiture' menus; to my mind, the meal needs to build up to a 'main event' and then scale back down to a sweet fanfare at the end. This seems to me to give the performance a direction that the succession of small dishes of a tasting menu never achieves. But without question, the presentation of food is a million miles from where it used to be. The eye is used to wash the taste buds and dishes these days, in the best restaurants, are works of art. But style must never rule over substance. If a dish looks a million dollars but is indifferent in its tasting then it has failed. Taste must always come first! This is a golden rule. The truth is that even the best chefs cannot do better than you can do in your own kitchen. The umami hit of a crispy bacon sandwich, oozing in butter and hot English mustard will never be approached by anything other than - a crispy bacon sandwich oozing with butter and mustard.....but they will try and approach it and the attempt is worth paying for.
And as to cost - some people balk at paying huge sums to eat in high end restaurants, but I take the long view. I eat three times a day every day of my life. If someone can serve me one of the top five dishes I've eaten in all of those thousands of meals then I'll pay for it. If the performance comes off, if you leave walking on a cloud, then it is worth every penny as much as any ballet or opera - and just as high art. I'd be afraid to tell you how much I've spent on a single meal - ashamed and embarrassed - but I have no regrets. I've come closer to heaven on a plate than I ever managed in a church and you can't say fairer than that.
One last aside - a personal thing really - but I'm getting a bit bored with this top end fashion of beautifully intricate dishes of delightful tasting food. Not being funny but they are ten a penny and pretty standard across the Michelin star restaurants these days. All the dishes are beautiful - they all hit the spot and every one of them would earn a star in its own right. But there is a thing that is really rare, and an absolute joy when you come across it. There is a kind of French cuisine, almost peasant based, not slopped onto a plate but not fine-dinning either, where simple everyday things are just elevated to almost God like levels on the plate. Where new, unknown flavour combinations burst out of the dishes and the meals are both rustic and elevated at the same time. Such chefs are rare birds indeed - I knew one who served asparagus with chive mayonnaise, nothing else, but it was like the first time you had ever eaten it .... and his plain chicken breast!!! These are the guys I want to feed me these days. Simple restaurants with check tablecloths and bone handled knives - and food that makes you want to kneel down and kiss the ground before it. Give me that and I'll be happy!
The truth is a Lion and does not need protection. Once free it will look after itself.
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
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I don't know if I'm so much a fan of easting out per se, as of good meals where I don't have to do anything myself. However, inevitably I have suffered the same kind of disappointment, where something that was supposed to be great was really just...OK.
And yes, like you I can't be having with these miniscule little fancy tit-bits. Give me a proper meal goddamnit!
--A
And yes, like you I can't be having with these miniscule little fancy tit-bits. Give me a proper meal goddamnit!
--A
- Menolly
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I love eating out. Whether it's a fancy meal; a greasy, foldable slice if pizza; a burrito supreme; or a standard Italian - American take at Olive Garden. I love to cook, but the drudgery of doing so and dishes gets wearying. Since SD does more of the cooking for us now than I do, I know he relates.
But, eating out doesn't love me. Aside from lockdown precautions making me doing so inadvisable with my immunocompromised self, I fail too often at sticking to low carb when treating myself out.
But, eating out doesn't love me. Aside from lockdown precautions making me doing so inadvisable with my immunocompromised self, I fail too often at sticking to low carb when treating myself out.
- peter
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I was introduced to restaurants at an early age - my father was a big fan and I guess it rubbed off on me.
I was in one last week - the prompt behind the above post I suppose - where, beautiful as the meal was, it hit home just how generic these high-end places have become. They sell themselves as the 'bee's knee's' of cuisine, but are in truth rather formulaic. All of the 'tricksy' ...errr....tricks used to make you 'wow' the food (they brought out an edible 'candle' complete with lighted wick in the place I was in ) are often cover for what are pretty standard fare when broken up on a plate. The candle turned out to be a chocolate ganache, of mediocre quality that all the gimmicks in the world were not going to make into good eating. (As an example of how it should be done, in a place in Bruges once, I had a few slices of fruit neatly arrayed in some juice that when you put into your mouth was like a taste of Shangri-la rolling over your tongue.)
Time for me to rethink my eating out choices I believe - and not before time!
(Another criticism I have of the place I went was that I had to battle with the sommelier to get him to leave my wine on the table. I like to pour my own wine......how hard can it be!)
I was in one last week - the prompt behind the above post I suppose - where, beautiful as the meal was, it hit home just how generic these high-end places have become. They sell themselves as the 'bee's knee's' of cuisine, but are in truth rather formulaic. All of the 'tricksy' ...errr....tricks used to make you 'wow' the food (they brought out an edible 'candle' complete with lighted wick in the place I was in ) are often cover for what are pretty standard fare when broken up on a plate. The candle turned out to be a chocolate ganache, of mediocre quality that all the gimmicks in the world were not going to make into good eating. (As an example of how it should be done, in a place in Bruges once, I had a few slices of fruit neatly arrayed in some juice that when you put into your mouth was like a taste of Shangri-la rolling over your tongue.)
Time for me to rethink my eating out choices I believe - and not before time!
(Another criticism I have of the place I went was that I had to battle with the sommelier to get him to leave my wine on the table. I like to pour my own wine......how hard can it be!)
The truth is a Lion and does not need protection. Once free it will look after itself.
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
- wayfriend
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peter, sorry to say, but unless I am in the mood for a great steak, I much prefer dining out at the casual/local/friendly/low-key places. For me, relaxing can't involve pretention, nor conformity. Nothing about starched shirts and linen napkins and smelling the cork is very appealing to me in and of itself.
Eventually, you can learn where to get a good burger, where to get good pasta, good Thai food, good Indian, etc. (And you have to keep exploring because this never stays the same.) Having your go-tos is better than eating high-end, in my book anyway.
Eventually, you can learn where to get a good burger, where to get good pasta, good Thai food, good Indian, etc. (And you have to keep exploring because this never stays the same.) Having your go-tos is better than eating high-end, in my book anyway.
.
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That was a great post Peter.
I fully agree and I wish I could afford eat out more.
And cost doesn't matter to me either.
If I find something I like I'm a regular customer.
Especially because good restaurants or even a good deli never lasts forever.
A chef might leave, new owners, new equipment, a new supplier or even my own tastes might change and the magic might be gone.
I fully agree and I wish I could afford eat out more.
And cost doesn't matter to me either.
If I find something I like I'm a regular customer.
Especially because good restaurants or even a good deli never lasts forever.
A chef might leave, new owners, new equipment, a new supplier or even my own tastes might change and the magic might be gone.
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- peter
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Agreed HLT. It has always surprised me how short a shelf-life even really good restaurants have. There are of course exceptions, but it seems to be something in the nature of chefs that makes them need to move - that plus the really hard job it is to actually make a restaurant pay. El Buli won its proprietor Ferran Adria best restaurant in the world six years running and never showed a profit in one of them!
The rule is enjoy it while it lasts - because it won't be for long!
I fully get what you are saying as well Wayfriend; eating out is totally a horses for courses thing - and has to bring about a state of mindful relaxation by its end point or it is worth nothing.
The rule is enjoy it while it lasts - because it won't be for long!
I fully get what you are saying as well Wayfriend; eating out is totally a horses for courses thing - and has to bring about a state of mindful relaxation by its end point or it is worth nothing.
The truth is a Lion and does not need protection. Once free it will look after itself.
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
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Part of the reason I'm always dubious about "theatrical" eating...so often the theatre is a cover for mundane food really.
(And like WF I find the pretension funny at best and off-putting at worst...my late uncle used to amuse himself by booking a large party into terribly expensive restaurants, turning up looking like a slob, and spending vast amounts of money while poking fun at their behaviour and preconceptions...I think it rubbed off on me. Which the vast amount of money had though... )
Only madmen and fools run restaurants. They are black holes of time and money that break many a dreamer. I recall something like 60% fail in the first year, and 80% don't last 5 years.
It looks like fun to be "mein host" but it's a killer slog with inhuman hours and huge costs, even if you're doing it right.
(And damn, I hate it when they change chefs...you go expecting what you usually love, and it's completely different.)
--A
(And like WF I find the pretension funny at best and off-putting at worst...my late uncle used to amuse himself by booking a large party into terribly expensive restaurants, turning up looking like a slob, and spending vast amounts of money while poking fun at their behaviour and preconceptions...I think it rubbed off on me. Which the vast amount of money had though... )
Only madmen and fools run restaurants. They are black holes of time and money that break many a dreamer. I recall something like 60% fail in the first year, and 80% don't last 5 years.
It looks like fun to be "mein host" but it's a killer slog with inhuman hours and huge costs, even if you're doing it right.
(And damn, I hate it when they change chefs...you go expecting what you usually love, and it's completely different.)
--A
- peter
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But Av - it's all about the theatre! Look, put it this way; in my way of seeing it you are part of the art. Between you and the restauranteur, you are creating an aesthetic experience equivalent to any opera, ballet or classical music concert. The Venus de Milo is not art if no-one ever sees her. The art of the restaurant is only realised when both the provider and the patron both buy into it. This means playing your part, your role if you like - which in some places will demand that you present a certain face toward it. By dressing, behaving, comporting yourself in a certain way, according to and appropriate to the effort that the restauranteur has put into his side of the 'art', you are not debasing yourself, you are partaking of a ritual that achieves the same perfection (at its best) as a Japanese tea ceremony (and you wouldn't go to a Japanese tea house and deliberately make fun of it would you). The formality, the style, the dress code, it isn't done for the place (they make the same money one way or another) - it's done for the art, it's done for you.
(I rest my case m'lud. )
(I rest my case m'lud. )
The truth is a Lion and does not need protection. Once free it will look after itself.
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
- peter
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Fair comment (I never much got the tea ceremony myself to be honest - these 'silver-needles' teas and stuff just taste like water to me. ) Here at least we are in complete agreement Av; if you're going to have a cup of tea - have a cup of tea!
The truth is a Lion and does not need protection. Once free it will look after itself.
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
- peter
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 11566
- Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:08 am
- Location: Another time. Another place.
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Nice! Greek meats are a thing of beauty! Odd thing though - I could never get my head around rice pudding...??...... and I come from the home of cream (South West England), where we almost invented the dessert!
The truth is a Lion and does not need protection. Once free it will look after itself.
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
- peter
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Certainly in the UK Menolly, the term pudding refers to a suet based steam pudding (sweet or savory) but rice pudding is the exception; normally served hot, but occasionally cold, it's a creamy sweet, not quite custard with rice in it. By all rights I should love it - I love rice (savory), I love cream and I have a hugely sweet tooth. But put the three together and it makes me cringe. I think it goes back to the stuff they used to inflict on us at boarding school - the scource of so many of my aversions in the food line!Menolly wrote:Peter, I think it's an across the pond translation thing. When y'all say "pudding," it's more a steamed thing, nu? Whereas us colonials think of pudding as a creamy, cold but not frozen custard.
Now you're talking Sarge; I love Thai food (in fact all Asian food) and would happily eat it every day!
The truth is a Lion and does not need protection. Once free it will look after itself.
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard