Harry Turtledove

Post by **kevinswatch** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:51 pm

Anyone else ever read anything by this guy? He's big into alternate history. His writing isn't anything spectacular like SRD, but he always seems to do a great job at building alterate history worlds. Makes them very interesting.

So far I've only read the Guns of the South (classic) and his whole big "How Few Remain/Great War/American Empire" series.

Personally I just think it's cool he's written one world starting in the 1910's all the way up into the 1940's. Interesting to see the characters grow.-jay

Post by **Metal-Demon** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:42 pm

His 'alternate history' seems to always included the utter dominance of America for some reason (at least the books I've seen) ... and from what I understand, he's not too fond of Canada or Mexico. A friend who has read some of his works mentioned to me once that he's a pretty narrow-minded and pompous writer that tends to re-hash the same ideas with only a few changes in detail. I dunno if that's the case ... but my girlfriend loathes the man (I can't recall exactly why at the moment).

Again, I haven't been even remotely interested in reading his stuff, but from what I've seen it appears to be boring old American flag-waving to me. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Post by **kevinswatch** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:41 pm

Well sheesh. This guy is an American author. What's wrong with him writing about American (alternate) history? I find nothing like simple "flag waving" in his books. If they were, I sure wouldn't read it. He simply writes interesting stuff with a good deal of knowledge of what really happened in history. He does his research. If it's mostly from an American's (Or Confederate's) POV, then so be it.

And you're wrong to say that bashes Mexico and Canada. In his Great War/American Empire series, a few of the POV characters are Canadian and there's at least one POV character from Confenderate Mexican states. And he doesn't paint them in negative light at all. So Turtledove is not just some "OMG America rules" author. When writing about how World War I would be different if the USA and CSA were two different nations, he writes from perspectives accross the entire North American continant. And personally I think he does a pretty good job with it.

And the Guns of the South is a real classic. Turtledove put a lot of research into making it accurate. As a minor Civil War buff, I really appreciate it. For a silly idea like people from the future giving Robert E. Lee AK-47s to win the Civil War, the story is quite interesting.

So yeah, I don't know what to say. You've either been misinformed about Turtledove, or its just that American alternative history just isn't for everyone. I enjoy it, but that doesn't mean you would.-jay

Post by **Metal-Demon** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:28 pm

It's quite possible that I'm way off the mark with regards to Turtledove. Again, my information is pretty much all second-hand, so I guess I shouldn't be too quick to judge.

Post by **kevinswatch** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:25 pm

Yeah, it's no problem. I'm just trying to give some props to the T-man.-jay

Post by **Avatar** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:17 am

Only things I've ever read by him have been those "world in the balance" books, and that was a bloody long time ago.

Still, remember them as being a good, if unspectacular read. As I've said, I don't spend a lot of time "interpreting" authors works. I tend to take them at face value as a story to read, and not much else.

Personally, I love "alternative" history type books. I mean, we all wonder what would have happened if...

For what its worth, I remember enjoying them, but I didn't pay enough attention to be able to discuss them now. Would have had to read them a few times at least before I felt like even thinking about it.

Oh BTW, Jay, I'm quite interested in the Civil War as well. Tried Bernard Cornwall's take on it in Rebel etc? If so, am interested to hear your opinion. If not, keep an eye out for them.

--Avatar

Post by **Loredoctor** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:50 am

My brother enjoyed the alternate WWII series.

Post by **Avatar** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:12 pm

Yeah, thats the one I'm talking about.

--A

Post by **kevinswatch** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 7:59 pm

I havn't read his WWII novels, but they look interesting. I'm still working on his big How Few Remain/Great War/American Empire/Whatever the new series is called thing.

I havn't heard of Bernard Cornwall. What does he write? I havn't heard of Rebel either.-jay

Post by **Avatar** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:25 am

Aah, you should keep an eye out. He writes historical fiction, and I think the series that made him famous was the "Sharpe" books, which follow a British soldier (Sharpe) up through the ranks during the Napoleanic wars.

I don't know how many he planned, but after they were "concluded", at the battle of Waterloo, demand was apparently so great that he wrote some prequels and some follow-ups, the prequels set before, during the India campaigns, and the follow-ups, obviously, after Waterloo. Then, I think he wrote a couple that fitted in between the originals as well.

After that, he turned his pen to the American Civil War, in the "Starbuck" series, four books I think, Rebel, Copperhead, The Bloody Ground and Battle Flag.

Next, he did the 100 years war, following and English longbowman from Crecy to Agincor to wherever (can't remember) with three books, Harlequin, Vagabond and Heretic.

Good stuff, and very well written, with an excellent treatement and incorporation of the historically acknowledged facts, and yet still a good story. One of the best parts of his books are his afterward, where he explains very carefully all the places he diverged from the facts, and why.

Worth reading if you like historical "military" type fiction.

--Avatar

Post by **Roland of Gilead** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:34 pm

I second the recommendation for Cornwell. (Bernard, not Patricia). The Sharpe series can be described as Horatio Hornblower on land. Very well-written and a great protagonist.

The Civil War series is unfinished, and Cornwell has left us hanging for quite a few years now.

The Warlord Chronicles trilogy, his historically realistic take on the King Arthur legend, are fan favorites. I've only read the first one, The Winter King, so far.

In addition, he's written some stand-alone novels, like Stonehenge.

He is also very good with the sailing thriller, of which there are five - Killer's Wake, Crackdown, Stormchild, Wildtrack and Scoundrel.

A prolific and excellent story-teller - give him a shot!!!

Post by **Roland of Gilead** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:43 pm

I also like Harry Turtledove. I agree that Guns of the South is a masterpiece of alternate history, taking an essentially bizarre idea and really running with it.

I also liked his "Balance" tetralogy, about an alien invasion during World War II.

Turtledove's formula is to take characters from all over the world (some historical, most fictional) and throw them into an epic situation where something in our past was different, and he extrapolates our history from that point onwards.

So be prepared to deal with an immense cast of characters, some of which you won't see for large stretches of pages.

Turtledove's short stories are very good, too.

Turtledove is amazingly prolific. I think he averages at least three large novels per year. This pace has hurt his reputation somewhat, as he's becoming formulaic and he's starting to overwhelm the market. I've noticed that Tolkien and Turtledove, side by side in the sf/fantasy sections of bookstores, now cover four or five shelves.

But he's worth a try, to see if you like his stuff. He's not called the master of alternate history for nothing.

Post by **Avatar** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 9:04 am

Roland of Gilead wrote:I second the recommendation for Cornwell. (Bernard, not Patricia)...A prolific and excellent story-teller - give him a shot!!!

Just started the first in his new series about the Danish invasions of England, The Last Kingdom.

Also excellent. Didn't really enjoy the few sailing ones I've read, but never tried very hard. Haven't tried the Warlord ones, but will keep an eye out on your recommendation.

The Sharpe books, my introduction to Cornwall, remain my absolute favourites. Given to me by my father, who's very keen on the Napoleanic Wars.

--A

Post by **Prover of Life** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 7:15 pm

I've read all the alt history epic divided America books. Really looking forward to the next one in August. It really is intriquing how a minor change might have effected history as we know it. Really like the way he handled Custer! And the way well or little known figures pop up.

If you like the American Civil War & mysteries, try the Able Jones books by Owen Parry. Jones is a Union Major hired by President Lincoln to investigate murders during the war. Look under mystery/fiction section.

Post by **sgt.null** » Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:05 pm

I enjoy Turtledove and his alternate history stuff.

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Kevin's Watch

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