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Cord Hurn
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Post by Cord Hurn »

StevieG wrote: Well, since IR isn’t going to put me out of my misery, I’ll guess Hashi makes Angus piss himself?
THAT'S IT, StevieG! Angus wants to stuff his pajamas down Hashi's throat after the latter makes him urinate in them, but Hashi has Angus in stasis, holding his arms up for an uncomfortably long time, so no vengeance for Angus.

It's your Gap Quiz question, SG!

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Post by StevieG »

I didn’t expect that :D

I’ll be back with a question soon!
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Post by StevieG »

Milos learnt to survive as a “bugger” for the guttergangs when he was young, and he believed that his situation then could be described in two words. It was the same now with Hashi and Warden when they forced him to travel as a second to Angus aboard Trumpet.

It had nothing to do with believability, it was all about __________ and _______.
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Post by Savor Dam »

Humiliation and Control

The Gap is an awesome exploration how each character's internal dynamics affect all their interactions. SRD is always good at this, but Gap (and Great God's War) are particularly good examples of his mastery of this approach to plot development.
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Post by StevieG »

You got it SD!

Yes, I find the chapters in the Gap particularly satisfying when they spend a page or two explaining the internal psychology of the POV character. This was no exception. Milos is a despicable character, but SRD’s skill in getting into the head of each character and helping the reader at least understand how they are thinking is one of the great pleasures of reading his work.

Over to you SD :D
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Post by Savor Dam »

About guttergangs...
In one sense, their roots were old as crime. "The poor you have with you always," said Christ, not inaptly. However, he might have gone on to observe that poverty had no meaning in the absence of wealth: where all have nothing, all are equal--and none poor. From the moment when human evolution first stumbled on the concept of having, some individuals or tribes or people had more while others had less. Predictably the disparity bred tension. In due course that tension led to violence--the taking away from those who had by those who had not.

As in all human endeavor, concerted action proved more effective than individual effort: groups could take more.

Gangs of one kind or another became inevitable as soon as having was invented.

In another sense, however, guttergangs were more recent. They were a product of modern mechanization and urbanization. More specifically, they were a symptom of as well as a reaction against the slow collapse of Earth's social infrastructures.

Because the services of well-meaning but overtaxed communities could no longer feed or care for their young adequately; because educational systems tried harder to control than to excite their students; because transitional lifestyles and intense technological changes eroded the ability of families to provide stability for their children; because humankind's rush to exploit the planet and consume its resources led to a rising tide of poverty which no one could stem; because the fiscal policies of governments were designed primarily to defend the comfort of the few against the hunger of the many; and because, finally, no one could pay for enough police to combat crime: for all these reasons and more, guttergangs flourished throughout Earth's sprawling urban structures with a vigor unprecedented in human history.
Why didn't guttergangs end up ruling Earth?
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Post by Cord Hurn »

...Because they could never get their hands on a sufficient amount of weapons? :confused: :mgun: :snipe: :rocket:
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Post by Savor Dam »

Sorry CH, but that isn't the answer.

Oddly enough, the inspiration for this question came (not entirely directly) from you.
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Post by StevieG »

The amnion represented a greater threat and the guttergangs became less essential?
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Post by Savor Dam »

That is within the target ring, StevieG! Over to you...
They [the guttergangs] did not suddenly discover patriotism, of course. They did not put aside their clenched internecine attack on all social structures outside their own for the sake of humanity's greater good. Nevertheless they were human beings--genophobic to the core. Like patriots and religionists, environmentalists and native Earthers, nations and corporations, politicians and cops, they could not stifle the visceral frisson of their revulsion against imperialism by mutation.

By degrees too small to be measured, too small even to be noticed in the short term, the guttergangs began to erode.

This process took any number of forms. As one crude example: thanks to the Amnion, the appetite of the UMCP for young bodies was as intense as, and inherently more comfortable than, the guttergangs'. Active recruitment by the police gave the hungry youth of Earth a choice distinct from the more passive, as well as more brutal, accretion of the guttergangs.

Or a more subtle instance: hating and fearing the Amnion, the ordinary people of Earth--the natural prey of the guttergangs--had less hatred and fear to spare for those gangs. Therefore in complex, almost indefinable ways the guttergangs began to lose their mystique, their attraction for the lost and disenfranchised of the planet. In comparison to the Amnion, the gangs were perceived as more bearable, more manageable, more normal; therefore less threatening to humankind--and less appealing to humankind's downtrodden. Over time, no human enterprise could oppose--or remain unchanged by--this kind of perceptual shift.

Slowly across the decades, genophobia united humanity against its common foe.
All due credit to Cord Hurn's dissection of A Dark and Hungry God Arises, Chapter 33 - Ancillary Documentation / Guttergangs (almost exactly two years ago) for the inspiration for this question, as well as the extensive quotes-from-original-text.
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Post by Cord Hurn »

Thanks, Savor Dam! And I always enjoy it when you and other Watch members share examples of Donaldson's great writing! :read: :read: :read: :read: :read:
8) 8) 8) 8) 8)


And congratulations to YOU, StevieG! It's now your Gap Quiz question! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
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