The Death of Arafat
The Death of Arafat
I think that the situation can only improve. To me, Arafat has been the major obstacle to peace in the Middle East for some time now.
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duchess of malfi
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I do hope things get better.
Another belief is that he was the only thing preventing things from being more bloody and violent.
And, unfortunately, it's not just up to the Palestinian and Israeli Leaders, the other countries in the region have made both sides victims by perpetuating the struggle. Folks like Osama Bin Laden and his type want the struggle to continue, so they demonize the West.
Another advantage the Palestinians and Israelis have is Saddam Hussein is no longer in power to fuel the fire
Another belief is that he was the only thing preventing things from being more bloody and violent.
And, unfortunately, it's not just up to the Palestinian and Israeli Leaders, the other countries in the region have made both sides victims by perpetuating the struggle. Folks like Osama Bin Laden and his type want the struggle to continue, so they demonize the West.
Another advantage the Palestinians and Israelis have is Saddam Hussein is no longer in power to fuel the fire
I Never Fail To Be Astounded By The Things We Do For Promises - Ronnie James Dio (All The Fools Sailed Away)
Remember, everytime you drag someone through the mud, you're down in the mud with them
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
Where are we going...and... WHY are we in a handbasket?
Remember, everytime you drag someone through the mud, you're down in the mud with them
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
Where are we going...and... WHY are we in a handbasket?
That is so true. Before Israel was created in 1948, the Palestinians were refugees. Jordan hated them, Lebanon did not want them, Saudi Arabia ignored them. With the creation of Israel, the Palestinians became 'a cause.'And, unfortunately, it's not just up to the Palestinian and Israeli Leaders, the other countries in the region have made both sides victims by perpetuating the struggle. Folks like Osama Bin Laden and his type want the struggle to continue, so they demonize the West.
I'm optimistic that things will improve.
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. John Stuart Mill
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[Syl]
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I think it's still too early to tell (so I picked stalemate continues). His death definately doesn't hurt matters, though. Well, sort of. He's left a huge power vacuum, and if Hamas fills that vacuum...
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
-George Steiner
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Loredoctor
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I think some of you need to show some more respect to the man. He was no more of a hindrance to the peace process that Ariel Sharon (sic). Arafat didnt win the Nobel Peace prize for nothing, and Sharon caused more harm to the peace process than Arafat could have. Alot of the violence is due to Sharon's disrespect for Arab religion and his own (admitted) aggressive stance.
Waddley wrote:your Highness Sir Dr. Loredoctor, PhD, Esq, the Magnificent, First of his name, Second Cousin of Dragons, White-Gold-Plate Wielder!
I couldn't disagree more. Arafat had many offers on the table that he either refused or reneged on. Every Israeli PM from Rabin to Barak to Sharon has offered concessions; they simply could not give Arafat everything, and that's what he wanted - along with the extermination of the Jews altogether.
With Bill Clinton at his side, Barak offered Arafat 95% of the Gaza strip - 95%! - and Arafat said no.
IMO - Arafat was a terrorist, and he's responsible for the deaths of many Israeli citizens. I for one am glad he's gone.
With Bill Clinton at his side, Barak offered Arafat 95% of the Gaza strip - 95%! - and Arafat said no.
IMO - Arafat was a terrorist, and he's responsible for the deaths of many Israeli citizens. I for one am glad he's gone.
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Loredoctor
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So in your opinion, Sharon is free of blame? Come on. I'm not saying Arafat was completely innocent, but the area was working towards peace. The death of Rabin changes everything. Nor are the Israelis completely free of blame. I listened to them talking on current affairs program; honestly surprised that they have so much hatred.
Waddley wrote:your Highness Sir Dr. Loredoctor, PhD, Esq, the Magnificent, First of his name, Second Cousin of Dragons, White-Gold-Plate Wielder!
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Avatar
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I agree with Caer. Too early to tell. It all depends on how that "power vacuum" is filled.
As to who is more to blame, I don't know. On the one hand, the Israeli's, they, out of everbody, should understand the desire of a people to have their own country.
On the other, there have been opportunities for compromise which have been rejected, and the continuing attacks from both sides do nothing to help resolve the matter.
--A
As to who is more to blame, I don't know. On the one hand, the Israeli's, they, out of everbody, should understand the desire of a people to have their own country.
On the other, there have been opportunities for compromise which have been rejected, and the continuing attacks from both sides do nothing to help resolve the matter.
--A
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[Syl]
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Doesn't matter if Sharon is free of blame, still fairly glad that Arafat's dead (though "relieved" is a better word). We can talk about Sharon when he dies.
The fact that Arafat shares a Nobel Peace Prize upsets me. He embezzled millions from his own people and was culpable, both directly and indirectly, of murdering hundreds of innocent (targeted) civilians.
Say what you want about most Israeli heads of state (they deserve more scorn than you probably know about), but at least they don't lie to your face. At least they don't condemn terrorists with one hand, pass them weapons and money with the other, and shrug helplessly to the world community with their shoulders all the while.
Tizdayin et Arafat
The fact that Arafat shares a Nobel Peace Prize upsets me. He embezzled millions from his own people and was culpable, both directly and indirectly, of murdering hundreds of innocent (targeted) civilians.
Say what you want about most Israeli heads of state (they deserve more scorn than you probably know about), but at least they don't lie to your face. At least they don't condemn terrorists with one hand, pass them weapons and money with the other, and shrug helplessly to the world community with their shoulders all the while.
Tizdayin et Arafat
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
-George Steiner
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Damelon
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Arafat dying doesn't change the root causes of the Palestinian - Israeli problem. Since religion and politics are so intertwined in that region, a successful peace, IMO, will not occur until the major religions get involved in the peace process alongside the political ones.
Religion gives cover extremists of all sides in this area of the world. If major respected religious figures do not give their blessing to extreme action, the political figures will not have the cover to invoke violence. Any political solution that doesn't factor religion in is bound, in the long run, to fail. The U.S. is looked to for leadership in the peace process, but I think that the U.S. should also try to draw in, say the Vatican, to use it's influence in bringing influencial religious figures from Judaism and Islam to the table as well as the political leaders.
Religion gives cover extremists of all sides in this area of the world. If major respected religious figures do not give their blessing to extreme action, the political figures will not have the cover to invoke violence. Any political solution that doesn't factor religion in is bound, in the long run, to fail. The U.S. is looked to for leadership in the peace process, but I think that the U.S. should also try to draw in, say the Vatican, to use it's influence in bringing influencial religious figures from Judaism and Islam to the table as well as the political leaders.
I agree that Arafat was very good at playing the victim. And no one can give a good answer as to why he turned down Barak's offer in 2000--while failing to provide a counter offer. This is a tactic for peace? A Middle East observer said on the news that perhaps Arafat had always been more interested in maintaining the struggle than reaching a solution. I can only hope the next leader of the Palestinians will have both hands on the table, instead of the left hand doing one thing while the right hand does another.
I'm not holding my breath. I think the stalemate will continue for a long time. Syl mentioned Hamas: can they be expected to lay down their arms voluntarily? I wonder if Arafat's martyrdom will give Hamas more excuse to sabotage any future peace talks. If Arafat had little interest in compromise, Hamas has even less.
I'm not holding my breath. I think the stalemate will continue for a long time. Syl mentioned Hamas: can they be expected to lay down their arms voluntarily? I wonder if Arafat's martyrdom will give Hamas more excuse to sabotage any future peace talks. If Arafat had little interest in compromise, Hamas has even less.
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Loredoctor
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I still think part of the problem is with the Israelis; more strides towards peace were made while Rabin was alive. Then Sharon comes into power and manages to disrupt everything with his antics.
Perhaps Arafat was ineffectual because he was so weak. I mean, he may have been in the end a puppet leader.
Perhaps Arafat was ineffectual because he was so weak. I mean, he may have been in the end a puppet leader.
Waddley wrote:your Highness Sir Dr. Loredoctor, PhD, Esq, the Magnificent, First of his name, Second Cousin of Dragons, White-Gold-Plate Wielder!
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ZefaLefeLaH
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The coin lands on heads. I am in total agreement with dlbpharmd.dlbpharmd wrote:I couldn't disagree more. Arafat had many offers on the table that he either refused or reneged on. Every Israeli PM from Rabin to Barak to Sharon has offered concessions; they simply could not give Arafat everything, and that's what he wanted - along with the extermination of the Jews altogether.
With Bill Clinton at his side, Barak offered Arafat 95% of the Gaza strip - 95%! - and Arafat said no.
IMO - Arafat was a terrorist, and he's responsible for the deaths of many Israeli citizens. I for one am glad he's gone.
The first ever kitten psychologist
I think there will be no peace in Israel. The situation between these two tribes gose back through history. A lot of the bombings that happen are nothing to do with Arafat (so they say). Arafat wanted a peace plan more anyone else but Irael stopped it because they want full control and not a Palestinian state. Now that Arafat is dead, I think that Palestinian will push more for their cause and if Sharon will not let them.... more death. They are both as bad as each other. When Sharon is dead, maybe we can talk about the Peace Plan.
Anyone believe there is religious motivation for a lack of peace? Not predjudice, but, trying to avoid or delay the coming of Revelations (Peace in the Middle East).
I believe most Religions have a version of Revelations and Peace in the Middle East is a very important milestone in most of them, Yes?
Sharon doesn't need to die, he is an elected official and can be voted out, Arafat on the other hand was not someone who could be successfully voted out, since an election was forced and it did no good.
I believe most Religions have a version of Revelations and Peace in the Middle East is a very important milestone in most of them, Yes?
Sharon doesn't need to die, he is an elected official and can be voted out, Arafat on the other hand was not someone who could be successfully voted out, since an election was forced and it did no good.
Others, including myself, disagree with you. In his column today, Cal Thomas wrote:Arafat wanted a peace plan more anyone else but Irael stopped it because they want full control and not a Palestinian state.
Arafat never cared about a Palestinian state contiguous to Israel. The only Palestinian state he cared about was one that encompassed all of Israel. He said that repeatedly to his own people while he said something else to the West. Every Palestinian map was printed without Israel.
Dammit dlbpharmd, you beat me to Cal's column. Arafat was a terrorist, pure and simple. He would not have rested until there was no Israel. He robbed his people blind, and he alone ended the chance for peace in 2000. Loremaster, no one's saying that the Israelis are perfect and without blame, but clearly the only man who opposed a Palestinian state was Arafat.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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