Proof of God

[Fist and Faith]

Heh. Lucky guess.

[ChoChiyo]

I feel like someone standing on the edge of deep water thinking about jumping in--yet fully aware of the inability to swim.

Do you ever get that feeling of longing, yet the strong urge to run and hide at the same time?

[dennisrwood]

come in Cho, the water is good.

[Furls Fire]

Heh. Lucky guess.

I feel like someone standing on the edge of deep water thinking about jumping in--yet fully aware of the inability to swim.

It's that leap of faith, Cho. Don't worry, He will hold you up and not let you drown. He will show you how to swim. You just have to let Him.

[Worm of Despite]

I feel like someone standing on the edge of deep water thinking about jumping in--yet fully aware of the inability to swim.

Do you ever get that feeling of longing, yet the strong urge to run and hide at the same time?

ChoChiyo, it seems you're very torn at the moment. Now, I don't know you very well--or at all, to tell the truth--but I think that, deep inside, you feel religion/belief in God is the best thing for you. I think the only problem you're having is making the move--but, trust me, it's as easy as walking through a door. Once you make the leap, everything will be clear to you. Maybe these are just hollow words, coming from an atheist, but I feel it's a very simple piece of advice that anyone who has undergone life-altering changes can talk about.

Best of luck to you, and I hope you're happy with whatever decision you make.

[dennisrwood]

Cho: do know any people of religion you trust? or maybe a pastor/priest/rabbi?

[Avatar]

Aah, now I'm torn over what to say.

Based on my own opinion, I can't say "Go for it", and ethically, I can't tell you "Don't".

At the last, probably the only honest bit of advice I can offer is that you make the choice that makes you happy. All other considerations should, perhaps, come second to that.

Luck.

--Avatar

[Cybrweez]

Maybe our happiness isn't the MOST important thing, maybe truth is. We might come to realize a particular truth that we don't like, do we ignore it to chase another path that we think will make us happy? Or do we accept that truth?

[Gadget nee Jemcheeta]

Give me an example where this would apply. I would L O V E LOVE to tear into this one




But back to ChoChiyo for a minute...
I know you're an individualist like none other, and your spirit of independance will probably keep you from buying into a specific belief system out of hand...
If you're feeling like you might be breaking into a new, spiritually fulfilling time in your life, that's incredible.
Just remember, no one is any more of an authority on divinity than you are No one has an answer that you can't find for yourself, and the answers we find for ourselves are the ones that retain meaning, and impact our lives.

[dennisrwood]

jem: used to be marriage was proof that individual sometimes had to be set aside for the better of the marriage. but now folks dissolve the vows quickly. i would say it still is a proof.

[Gadget nee Jemcheeta]

But no!
A marraige should not be a setting aside of the individual for the good of the couple!

It should be that the good of the couple is even better for the individual than simply the good of the individual!

[Nathan]

I'd say that the individuals' happiness was being set aside to avoid the scandal of a divorce. In the past when Christianity was much more popular and divorce was rarer people were afraid of being shunned because of a divorce. They just weighed up the pleasure they'd gain from getting the hell out of their crappy marriage and the trouble the divorce itself would cause.

Nowadays divorce is more acceptable.

[dennisrwood]

Jem: same thing. the good of my marriage is that i don't go chasing after thong wearing women. bad for my own lustful desires though.

[Fist and Faith]

Aah, now I'm torn over what to say.

Based on my own opinion, I can't say "Go for it", and ethically, I can't tell you "Don't".

At the last, probably the only honest bit of advice I can offer is that you make the choice that makes you happy. All other considerations should, perhaps, come second to that.

I think your last is the best advice. I think we all have certain needs/drives - perhaps they are Jung's archetypes. These archetypes don't seem to care about Truth, they simply demand our attention. We must find an answer for them or we will always be torn. It sounds to me like Cho has a deep belief in God, which must be fulfilled. But the image of God that Cho has learned is a bad one. I say replace it with a good one.

And here's a fantastic bit of wisdom!

Just remember, no one is any more of an authority on divinity than you are No one has an answer that you can't find for yourself, and the answers we find for ourselves are the ones that retain meaning, and impact our lives.

YES!! Cho, your heart tells you that the God you were taught is wrong. There's your answer. Your heart knows, and has been fighting against the bad teachings all along. Embrace what you know to be true.

Of course, I wouldn't be me if I didn't have some quotes for this.

Now the supreme irony here is that you have all placed so much importance on the Word of God, and so little on the experience.

In fact, you place so little value on experience that when what you experience of God differs from what you’ve heard of God, you automatically discard the experience and own the words, when it should be just the other way around.

Your experience and your feelings about a thing represent what you factually and intuitively know about that thing. Words can only seek to symbolize what you know, and can often confuse what you know. -- Conversations With God

So I want to remind you that every entry in this book is at best an asymptotic shot at life, and at my life, not at yours. If my words affirm you, then savor them for the moment; but if they cause you to distrust your own experience, spit them out. You are the only authority on what is good for you, and once you have seen this, you will feel an enormous peace and freedom. -- Hugh Prather

I won't quote a fantastic moment from Circle of Iron, since I know you're all planning to watch it now that it's on dvd.

Maybe our happiness isn't the MOST important thing, maybe truth is. We might come to realize a particular truth that we don't like, do we ignore it to chase another path that we think will make us happy? Or do we accept that truth?

I think some people go one way, and some go the other. Despite extraordinary evidence, some people will not believe the earth is more than several thousand years old, because it conflicts with their religious beliefs. Rather than find a way to reconcile God and science (which I don't think should be a problem), they will not acknowledge this "particular truth." Instead, they say the data is misinterpreted.

OTOH, some who may be drawn to God will refuse to believe because they think the earth is billions of years old, but someone told them that, if they want to believe in God, they must believe that the earth is only several thousand years old. Again, they cannot reconcile God and science, so they do not find the fulfillment that God could give them.

[Kymbierlee]

OTOH, some who may be drawn to God will refuse to believe because they think the earth is billions of years old, but someone told them that, if they want to believe in God, they must believe that the earth is only several thousand years old. Again, they cannot reconcile God and science, so they do not find the fulfillment that God could give them.

Ahh, and there are those of us who believe in the Mother Goddess, and don't have these problems. BB!

I keep promising Avatar I am going to start a Pagan/witchcraft thread. Any takers or interested parties out there?

[Sheol]

Kimbierlee wrote:

I keep promising Avatar I am going to start a Pagan/witchcraft thread. Any takers or interested parties out there?

Go for it, I always thougt it was kinda interesting.

[Avatar]

tic bit of wisdom!

Just remember, no one is any more of an authority on divinity than you are No one has an answer that you can't find for yourself, and the answers we find for ourselves are the ones that retain meaning, and impact our lives.

As you say Fist, a great bit of wisdom. Really an excellent post Jem. So excellent, that I have nothing more to say on the matter. (For now. )

Kym -- As Sheol says, go for it. We discuss christianity here as though it and aetheism was all that there was. Another perspective will be nice.

--Avatar

[dennisrwood]

i'm all for a pagan thread.

wonder what side i'll take?

[Avatar]

You're just full of humourous remarks today, aren't you?

--A