The Mahdoubt

[Old Darth]

The eyes and the patchwork dress are the items that stick with me.

The patchwork dress could be a symbolic representation of time ie. caesures being patched together in a tapestry of time. Why does Mahdoubt tell Linden she will understand the pattern eventually? Something that a woman but not a man could discern? Jeremiah should be able to see and understand the pattern.

The different coloured eyes. I like the idea of one able to look into the past and the other the future.

Mahdoubt. Mah means flexible from what my internet searches tell me. Flexible doubt? Hmmm just rambling thoughts on this one. Need more data!

[danlo]

Need more data!

You sound like NOMAD from Star Trek: Sterilize!! Must Steriliiiizzze!!!

[IrrationalSanity]

Nah, Number 5 (Johnny Five) from Short Circuit!

"More Input!"

Or on the breaking of the Laws of Life and Death...

"Stefani, Re-Assemble!"

[danlo]

touche!

[Old Darth]

Guilty on both counts!

[dlbpharmd]

From today's GI: (not a spoiler)

Khat: Stephen;
I hope - needing a break while writing FR - you choose to answer my post:
After devouring (so to speak) Runes after Christmas, I needed to reread the first two Chronicles (and Gilden Fire) to help me remember more about "The Land", the characters, and to help me with the trivia games on the Watch <grin hee hee>. I am really curious about the Mahdoubt lady we meet at the end of Runes. She truly reminds me of the healer who saved Covenant after he ate amanibhavam and died in his place - (I never did find her name) - in PTP. At one time she seems to look like someone else - like the Elohim - Any chance you can "spoil" me here with more on this character?
Thank you again for bringing us (your readers) back to the Land - what a great ride!

Sorry, no. The Mahdoubt is a subject on which I can't offer "spoilers" of any kind. This is firmly in the category of RAFO. (From which you may safely deduce that the story isn't done with her. <grin>)

(06/29/2005)

[danlo]

ooooooooooooooooooooooou!

[I'm Murrin]

I was looking back at some older threads, and spotted this:

"Matters of apparel are the province of women, beyond your blandishment. The Lady grasps the presence of gratitude. And if she does not"--her blue eye flickerd a quick glance at Linden--" yet she will. Oh, assuredly. It is as certain as the rising and setting of the sun"

I don't see any importance to the 'rising and setting of the sun' comment, unlike some others, but I'm interested in this line:
"The Lady grasps the presence of gratitude"
Gratitude, from whom? For what?
It seems reasonable to assume the Mahdoubt is referring to herself - that the Mahdoubt is grateful for something.
But for the Mahdoubt to be grateful to Linden, she must know of something Linden has done that is worth gratitude - it seems obvious, then, what with all the other things the Mahdoubt says, that she knows all about Linden - knows what the Haruchai have been keeping secret.

On the other hand, I don't know what exactly it was that Liand said about her dress (don't have book here), so I'm missing part of the context. She could also be talking about more general gratitude - gratitude of the Haruchai for saving the Land, despite their apparent treatment of her?
Hmm, that's an interesting idea. The suggestion that Linden may not have yet realised there is this gratitude... perhaps she will come to realise later that the Haruchai are truly grateful to her for healing the Land.

And a little tidbit to muse on: "her blue eye flicked a quick glance at Linden".
Eye singular, and specifically the blue one.

[NightBlaze]

Ok, I know I stated on a different thread that I dont like to follow color scheme very often or something like that. In this case, its part of the story rather than hypotheticals, so here we go. I was rereading the first series and I found several references to Brown and Blue. Mhoram and Lithe argueing with each other like Earth and Sky...etc, etc, etc...
Something else caught my attention too. Linden, when she uses the staff? The color of the flame is yellow. When the High Lord Elena used it, the flame was blue. Im thinking the Mahdoubt is a product of the Lords, or perhaps she alone studies the wards as the Haruchai do not watch her, rather she is free to come and go....
Anyone else think I'm on to something???

[finn]

"...............transfixed by his deep brown eyes, his classical attire, his old world manners and the flash of the red lining in his cape. However it was not till he walked past the mirror that she noticed that he had no reflection."

We can deduce from the above that "he" is a vampire.

As I stated earlier, I believe that the biggest clue to the Mahdoubt is in the reflection of her in the assembled characters.

Murrin: You might be onto something there, I wondered and think I posted, that the Mahdoubt could be one of a group and that that group is descended from (or possibly is still!) the remnants of the clave who were taken in by the Na-Mohram/Raver, or one of the people(s) rescued when the clave was broken and the banefire extinguished.....a sort of domestic bloodguard.

[wayfriend]

"Matters of apparel are the province of women, beyond your blandishment. The Lady grasps the presence of gratitude. And if she does not"--her blue eye flickerd a quick glance at Linden--" yet she will. Oh, assuredly. It is as certain as the rising and setting of the sun"

I don't see any importance to the 'rising and setting of the sun' comment, unlike some others, but I'm interested in this line:
"The Lady grasps the presence of gratitude"
Gratitude, from whom? For what?
It seems reasonable to assume the Mahdoubt is referring to herself - that the Mahdoubt is grateful for something.

I read it a different way. I think she is saying that her garb was given to her out of gratitude, and so she proudly wears it, even though it is rather odd. Of course, we don't know from who. Perhaps everyone whom she has helped has added a bit of their garment onto hers, some sort of personal trademark.

This would be be the Mahdoubt's quirky way of honoring those that she has served. Her comment to Linden could imply that Linden will one day see how the Mahdoubt earns such gratitude, or that Linden will herself find a way to honor those that she helps.

It is a classic Donaldson ambiguous statement, any way you cut it.

[NightBlaze]

wow! I felt a little skipped in my last entry...LOL
I originally said she might be somewhat akin to the lords or that she might be studying the wards, but I want to retract that. She might read the wards, but the Huruchai are to sensitive to power for her to use them. Im back to square one now. Darn it!

[ur-bane]

Hang in there, NightBlaze......we are all speculating here when it comes to the Mahdoubt.
I agree completely with Wayfriend in terms of the "gratitude" was meant as gratitude of those who donated the fabric to make the dress.

Other than that, all the hypothetical thrown in the mix about the Mahdoubt are just that: hypothetical: guesses.
Only SRD knows for sure who she is, and we won't know until he tells us.

What I find amazing is that a character who has so little time dedicated to her in the book has actually been the point of discussion for 19 pages of speculative threads!

[Avatar]

"Matters of apparel are the province of women, beyond your blandishment. The Lady grasps the presence of gratitude. And if she does not"--her blue eye flickerd a quick glance at Linden--" yet she will. Oh, assuredly. It is as certain as the rising and setting of the sun"

I don't see any importance to the 'rising and setting of the sun' comment, unlike some others, but I'm interested in this line:
"The Lady grasps the presence of gratitude"
Gratitude, from whom? For what?
It seems reasonable to assume the Mahdoubt is referring to herself - that the Mahdoubt is grateful for something.

I read it a different way. I think she is saying that her garb was given to her out of gratitude, and so she proudly wears it, even though it is rather odd. Of course, we don't know from who. Perhaps everyone whom she has helped has added a bit of their garment onto hers, some sort of personal trademark.

That's how I read it too WayFriend. Exactly, in fact.

--A

[Warmark]

I don't see any importance to the 'rising and setting of the sun' comment, unlike some others, but I'm interested in this line:
"The Lady grasps the presence of gratitude"
Gratitude, from whom? For what?
It seems reasonable to assume the Mahdoubt is referring to herself - that the Mahdoubt is grateful for something.

I read it a different way. I think she is saying that her garb was given to her out of gratitude, and so she proudly wears it, even though it is rather odd. Of course, we don't know from who. Perhaps everyone whom she has helped has added a bit of their garment onto hers, some sort of personal trademark.

That's how I read it too WayFriend. Exactly, in fact.

--A

I have to say i read it as Murrin did, but you have almost convinced me Wayfriend and Avatar,

[ur-bane]

Knowing that I too read it as Wayfriend and Avatar, would that convince you?

Seriously, though. On that point, I am blind in that I don't see it being anything other than the gratitude of those that donated the cloth to make the dress.

[Warmark]

Knowing that I too read it as Wayfriend and Avatar, would that convince you?

I'm utterly convinced now

[Luke The Unbeliever]

I haven't read all 19 pages of this thread yet, and do apologize if I'm rehashing someone else's idea.

I could have sworn someone brought up an idea of the Mahdoubt being tied to the unfettered healer from TPTP.

I can see that.

Here are my ideas about her:

Linden tries to remove the stains left on her pants from the grass.
Quote RoTE page 466:

For all of her scrubbing, however, she could not remove the grass stains from her pants. They had become part of the fabric, indelible, as cryptic as Runes.

The Mahdoubt I think, is trying to get Linden to pay attention to her own clothing. Surely, Donaldson wouldn't use a word as powerful as runes to describe an insignificant stain, and later have The Mahdoubt eyeballing Linden when talking about the importance of her clothing whether it be personal pride or a hint to Linden.

The book is called Runes of The Earth so....
The new SoL has no Runes on it, as the original one did.
Could perhaps, the NSoL require runes for it's needed future use ? Could somehow, Earthpower have marked Linden's clothing with the runes she needed ? Why is the Mahdoubt trying to help Linden realize all of this ?
...

The Mahdoubt's dress is perhaps a collection from all of the healings she had performed if she is indeed the unfettered healer.
The Mahdoubt says she doesn't remember all of her younger days or something to that effect. Which makes me believe that there is a very good chance, she could be the Unfettered Healer. Covenant may have thought here to be dead, but maybe White Gold induced a sleep in her, maybe she was "changed."

...

I know I've went into a few different areas here, but the way I see it, The Mahdoubt is tied into it. Ok, I'm done...hopefully I won't be ripped apart too badly.

[CovenantJr]

The Mahdoubt's dress is perhaps a collection from all of the healings she had performed if she is indeed the unfettered healer

I find it highly unlikely that the Mahdoubt is connected to the Healer of Morinmoss, and utterly inconceivable (heh, I've been watching The Princess Bride today ) that she actually is the Healer. My reasons for this are essentially the same reason.

There is (IMO) no possibility of her being the Healer. The Unfettered were human, and though, like Lords, they were cabable of living very long lives, I think 6000-8000 years is pushing it. Ok, we have the caesures, but so far the only thing we've seen move forward in time through a caesure is a pack of Demondim, and that was a concerted effort between wild magic, ur-viles and Ranyhyn.

There is (IMO again) a slightly greater - but still negligible - chance of the Mahdoubt being in someway descended from or otherwise connected to the Healer. Again, it's been a minimum of 6000 years since Covenant encountered the Healer in Morinmoss.

[danlo]

Did Melma die? If not, interesting...(or did you all already discuss her? )
Edit: yes

Perhaps the Mahdoubt is a descendant of Memla? (Not directly, but at least someone from the Clave that felt as Memla did?)