Peoples reactions to Covenant

Post by **Empusae** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:48 pm

Hello

I do hope this hasn't been spoken of before, if it has I shall do away with this post.

What I wanted to speak of was how amazingly this series seems to divide people. People I have met either love it or hate it and, to today, I have yet to meet anyone who says its kind of ok or not so good.

Have you all noticed this?

Post by **onewyteduck** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:25 am

Few people I know away from here are familiar with Covenant. Of those who are there seems to be two camps. Those who finished it and loved it. Those who never finished LFB.

Post by **Loredoctor** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:28 am

Used to live at house with friends. One of them told me he refused to read TCTC once Covenant raped Lena. Said that heroes in fantasy don't do that sort of thing, and would not listen when I tried to explain that: 1. TC is an anti-here; and 2. The character actually tries to redeem himself.

Post by **Brinnor** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:54 am

Must admit, I had a bit of trouble with LFB the first time round, since he doesn't feel any regret until the plains of Ra.
Until that point, Covenant barely acknowledges that he's committed a crime; and it practically gets forgotten in the midst of all the action that's happening.

Since it's such a long time until he feels remorse, it almost feels like Donaldson himself is condoning the act. Especially when reading it for the first time, and you're not even sure that the remorse is even going to happen...

Post by **Xar** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:57 pm

Admittedly, I also originally stopped reading LFB at Lena's rape; it was so unexpected, in a way - especially from a storytelling point of view, where situations like these are taboo in fantasy novels, when heroes (or even antiheroes) are concerned - that it shocked me all the more. In the end, I have to admit, the reason why I went on was because I was reading the omnibus version of the First Chronicles, and I was annoyed at the thought of having wasted my money for a book of which I had only read five chapters, so I decided to go through. By the time I reached Revelstone, I was already hooked.

Post by **Avatar** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:17 pm

Welcome to The Watch, Empusae.

Until I arrived here, I'd only met one person who'd read them other than the person who introduced me to them, and I suspect he never read past LFB himself, because he gave it to me.

--A

Post by **Usivius** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:45 pm

yes, out of all my 'fantasy' reading friends who have picked up the Chrons, only one has read the first series all the way through, and liked it 1 out of 7! The rest hated it. They were more in to the Eddings stuff... <shrug>

Post by **Rockbrother** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:34 pm

I agree that most folks either love or hate the series. Friends of mine who usually share the same fantasy tastes as I do actually hate the series, thinking it dull and lifeless.

I think some folks want their heroic fantasy to be, well, heroic and fantastic. Having a main character that goes out of his way to be sort of anti civil seems to turn alot of people off. Like the old cliche, people want some one to root for.

Myself, I first read the Chronicles in HS and found myself rooting for TC right from the start (hopefully no one reads that as condoning rape or some such thing). TC's road to redemption and acceptance seemed so much more important to me than your average 'young boy/girl sets out on path to find their magical power' type of thing. Makes the end result more powerful.

The Chronicles kind of ruined me for alot of fantasy that's out there now. Something like how TC views his best-sellers after he becomes sick and loses his family.

Just my 2 cents

Post by **stonemaybe** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:54 pm

I agree with onewyteduck, anyone I know who has finished LFB has loved the whole series.

Post by **Prom_STar** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:58 pm

Lena's rape never stopped me from reading LFB--but I did start it at least twice (maybe 3 or more times) before I finally started really reading it. I'm not sure why, but it just didn't grab me at first. of course, when it did finally take hold, I was hooked and proceeded to read the reamining five books.

I've tried to have two people read TCoTC. One never got through the first book, the other read LFB and kept saying "I'll finish this one and then I'm done." He proceeded to read all six

Post by **Nerdanel** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:19 pm

Unlike with the more common series that get worse in the later installments, I think LFB is the worst book in the entire Chronicles. That's why it's so effective as a stumbling block. If Wheel of Time had started with Knife of Dreams Robert Jordan would have a lot fewer readers, but those few readers would love him. (Yes, I know that LFB and Knife of Dreams are on entirely different levels.)

Then there is the matter of individual taste. At the age of about 12 I gushily recommended Ender's Game to my mother. She quit reading after the first chapter or two because it was so nasty and violent. No way I could recommend the Chronicles to her. Some people just don't like darkness. SRD is far to the other end of the sliding scale, which drives some people away particularly strongly and gives other people a taste of something rare they have been thirsting for.

Post by **Buckarama** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:20 pm

Well I think the rape of Lena was important. It makes TC open for evil. This goes against modern Fantasy in that the hero even if falible always tries to do the right thing.

Post by **Empusae** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:09 pm

Thank you all for the replies.

I have had the good fortune to have a few friends who I have been able to show the joys of TC. Add to that my father is a long time fan.

Now, here in the next few days, I shall entroduce my girlfriend to the works and see what she thinks.

Post by **Empusae** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:11 pm

Nerdanel wrote:At the age of about 12 I gushily recommended Ender's Game to my mother.

And that just happens to be, perhaps, my second fav series. Also one that I have entroduced to my GF who LOVED IT. (both the org series and the new one)

Post by **Nerdanel** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:21 pm

Empusae wrote:
Nerdanel wrote:At the age of about 12 I gushily recommended Ender's Game to my mother.

And that just happens to be, perhaps, my second fav series. Also one that I have entroduced to my GF who LOVED IT. (both the org series and the new one)

I loved the first book, but I think the quality really went down. I thought Xenocide was awful, particularly the deus-ex-machina ending.

I stopped after that book.

Post by **srtrout** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:03 am

I have bought at least 15 entire sets of the first chronicles and given them to friends, only one or two have managed to read them, perhaps the only
one with enthusiasm was my 12 year old nephew!

I have decided it is a test of worthiness, akin to when Covenant is given the wooden staff to catch at Rivenwood in Lord Foul's Bane. I just can't see why intelligent people don't get into this series, thus it can only mean they are NOT WORTHY OF READING IT!

I still pound the used book stores and buy up their paperback versions, hoping to find another friend worthy of joining the wonderful journey of reading this great stuff.

senor trout

Post by **KAY1** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:31 am

I actually read my brother's copy of LFB after he had finished with it and between us we started buying the rest of the books. he gave up after TPTP though and said he wasn't interested in reading it anymore. I suppose at least he made it to the end of the 1st chrons. I think after that he got more into sci-fi and lost interest in fantasy.

I have to say I was never bothered by the rape in the sense that it made me feel like I didn't want to continue. I just accepted it as part of the story although I was quite upset that the apparent hero had done something so horrible.

Post by **Rogical21** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:47 pm

I agree with Strout. The rape of Lena never bothered me to the point of being appalled and closing the book for good. I guess to me it allowed me to further realize Covenant's anti-hero role and gave me further insight and understanding into his internal struggles. By doing this, I feel that Donaldson was attempting to truely show his readers just how damaged & conflicted TC's psyche had become. Just my two cents.

Post by **KAY1** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:56 pm

To be honest I was much more disturbed by the Elena/Covenant relationship than by the rape itself. I know it has been said over and over that they hadnt known each other as father and daughter etc etc but that isn't really the point.

The rape was a terrible thing and had many consequences over the years, from the birth of Elena to the madness of Lena and also Covenant's bargain with the Ranyhyn.

Post by **Xar** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:09 pm

Indeed it could be said that ironically, it is that particular moment, which would seem to make Covenant such an ideal candidate for Despite, that ultimately makes him into the Land's savior, due to his feelings of guilt and self-loathing (heightened by witnessing the long-term consequences of his rape, i.e. Elena, Dead Elena, the Breaking of the Law of Death, the injured Ranyhyn in TPTP, and so on). In fact, the rape was such a pivotal point that it was still present as a theme when he meets the Dead in Andelain, in the SC: in particular, when the shades of Lena, Trell and Atiaran come to him to push him into reaching Revelstone as fast as possible.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

Peoples reactions to Covenant

Peoples reactions to Covenant

It's a test of worthiness!