LOTRs/Silmarillion discussion page:

[Lord Callindrill]

One of my favorite moments from Tolkien lore surrounds the Valar's calling of the five wizards. During this meeting, Olorin (Gandalf) hangs near the rear of the gathering (possibly eying possible exits from the room in the best Bored of the Rings tradition) and says nothing.

At one point, Varda proposes that Olorin should go to Middle Earth as the emissary representing her and Manwe. Olorin responds that he fears Sauron. Varda replies that it is for that reason he must go.

Has anyone else noticed that Aule seems to have all of the rotten luck when it comes to his Maia? Sauron, Saruman, and the spirits of fire (Balrogs) all were originally attached to his service.

[Ryzel]

Has anyone else noticed that Aule seems to have all of the rotten luck when it comes to his Maia? Sauron, Saruman, and the spirits of fire (Balrogs) all were originally attached to his service.

That is probably because he was the god of smithcraft and industry and Tolkien was against industrialisation.

[Merle]

Back to a previous question about Huan being mentioned in The Book of Lost Tales: Huan's tale is told in full in the chapter "Of Beren and Luthien" in The Sillmarillion as published. However, any other dogs or cats were apparently weeded out of the story over the years, until the "final" version was published after JRRT's death. Huan was a hound of Valinor, who accompanied the Exiles, and came under the Doom of Mandos.

You can find all kinds of Tolkien information at www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm, The Encyclopedia of Arda. It is a tremendous resource for the Tolkien fan.

I am interested in "the flame of Anor" reference. Where did you find that all of the Istari were to be servants of the flame of Anor?

[Merle]

I will say that Gandalf's claim to the balrog that he was a "servant of the secret fire" is probably a reference to the Ring given him by Cirdan, Narya the red ring, also known as the Ring of Fire.

If you check at the Encyclopedia of Arda website, the reference to being a weilder of the Flame of Anor is unresolved. Anor refers to the sun, which is the last fruit of Laurelin the golden. The suggestion is that Gandalf has remained true to the West and the Valar.

[Grimm]

Don't mean to change the subject, but I'm just dying to point out a cool similarity in The Silmarillion. The music of Melkor, in the very beginning of Ainulindale, is described to be: "... loud, and vain, and endlessly repeated: and it had little harmony, but rather a clamorous unison as of many trumpets braying upon a few notes. And it essayed to drown the other music by the violence of its voice ..."

This description sopunds a lot like early Black Sabbath music; the constantly repeated guitar riff, consisting of only a few notes and played very loud, and sounding decidedly evil. It's pretty cool to think a whole new type of music may have been inspired by Tolkien. Black Sabbath wanted to write music to frighten people, just like a move or book would.

Any thoughts?

Grimm