Runes Part 2 Chapter 1 - Spent Emnity

[SoulBiter]

I get the idea that the Ranyhyn are aware of things that 'will' happen.. They can navigate time only in the sense of knowing when certain things will happen and being sure to be there at that time. Perhaps since they are so much beings of earthpower they have some awareness of the arch of time and thus the flows of time.

So being aware of time and leaving so you can get there when you are supposed to... does that always work? Remember in 'The Power that Preserves" the Ranyhyn jumped between Pietten and Covenant and took a spear meant for TC.

My guess for this would be that the Ranyhyn was delayed by (wolves, fire, flood, etc etc ) and arrived a few seconds later than it needed to. So just because they are aware of time and how it flows doesnt mean that they are able to create a movement in time to get somewhere... like a timeslip.

[wayfriend]

This opens up another question: If ranyhyn can navigate time, how could they be killed by a conventional enemy? There must be some Law that says they cant do it with a rider mounted, or they could just timeslip (heh) around the enemy or something.

Whoa!

(I didn't try too hard to avoid the horse term, there.)

I don't think the Ranyhyn can move through time.

The Ranyhyn could hear their chosen rider's call before it actually happened, this we know. This indicates that they have some form of "perception" that can see beyond their current frame of time, into a future time.

Yes, until now, it only manifested in this one ability. But you have to grant that there is something "timeloose" in their makeup, some element of time-transcendence. (And the Ranyhyn are a proud and principled bunch - who would not credit that they have other abilities which have remained hidden?)

The only new element here is Donaldson indicating that this time-trancendance can function in other ways. That's not a big leap - it's not something new, it's just more of something we already have.

And there's no indication that it's something that can function outside of a ceasure. It could be that the combination of the ceasure's making the entire span of time available in one instance, and the Ranyhyn's natural ability to know how to perceive outside one's own now, that makes something else possible.

And in the end, it's useless by itself. Ranyhyn in a ceasure can see what's going on -- but all they can do is see.

It's when they convey what they see to Linden, that time travel becomes possible. With the wild magic, Linden can use a ceasure to go to a different time. But she can't go to a time of her choosing because she doesn't know how to find it - heck, she can't even perceive different times, never mind pick one and move towards it. She has power but no way of directing it to an end.

So I imagine this whole thing as Linden is blind person driving a car, while the Ranyhyn are reading the signs, and telling Linden how to steer. And, of course, the ur-viles are holding the car together.

[SoulBiter]

We were talking earlier in this thread about Linden not being able to find the Wild Magic.

Wayfriend wrote:
Earlier, when Esmer came, she tried to find the power of her ring. She failed. Here she tries again (with considerably more time to spend on it) and succeeds. Why?

I have not been disproven yet that it is about passion. And Jeremiah always seems to be her source of passion. Here it is again.

Spoiler

She failed because his presence seems to block her from the power. Had be been there when she was trying to heal Stave I suspect she still wouldnt be able to find the power.

I agree that it is probably her passion (just as it was with Covenant) that allows her to find the power when she does.

It seems a character flaw in both TC and Linden that their own unbelief seem to limit them from being able to find the power at will. Thomas Covenant's unbelief in the Land and thus the ring and the wild magic and Lindens unbelief that the ring belongs to her.

I was reading the Gradual interview and read this from last month. I bolded the part that has a kind of answer to this from the Author.

(From GRADUAL INTERVIEW (December 2006)

But she has power: white gold. You say her control over it is more precise than Covenant’s was. I say her ability to use it *at all* is more arduous and tenuous than his ever was

Spoiler

(e.g. Esmer’s mere presence blocks it).

(In the first trilogy, Covenant was inhibited by his Unbelief, not by anything inherent to his relationship with white gold.) You say “Covenant was apparently able to confront Foul in the 1st Chronicles without endangering the Arch.” I say, No, he destroyed the Illearth Stone. That’s not the same thing. I say Linden knows that wild magic tends to scale out of control; that every use of it makes it more difficult to control. And I say that wild magic is *exactly* the power LF *wants* his enemies to use against him (because of the threat to the Arch: part of Covenant’s triumph in the first trilogy is that he did NOT confront LF with wild magic directly). He wins if he can just get someone, anyone, to attack him hard enough with wild magic. And Linden is smart enough to know how dangerous her position is.

[wayfriend]

SoulBiter, you may want to edit your post and spoilerize some of that, since we haven't gotten that far in the disection.

It seems a character flaw in both TC and Linden that their own unbelief seem to limit them from being able to find the power at will. Thomas Covenant's unbelief in the Land and thus the ring and the wild magic and Lindens unbelief that the ring belongs to her.

Agreed. Now that it was awake, it was a part of him, an expression of himself. You are the white gold. If you don't consider the white gold to be a part of you, an expression of yourself, you won't be able to use it. And you cannot consider white gold to be a part of you when you do not believe. Covenant's Unbelief, and Linden's Unbelief, both exclude the premise that the white gold is a part of them.

He wins if he can just get someone, anyone, to attack him hard enough with wild magic.

That old nut. And yet Findail says, "This Despiser is not mad. Should be rouse the Worm himself, without the wild magic in his hand, would he not also be consumed in the destruction of the world?"

If this GI question is considered authoritative, then that means Findail lied or misled us somehow. Interesting.

[SoulBiter]

SoulBiter, you may want to edit your post and spoilerize some of that, since we haven't gotten that far in the disection.

Done.. yep I caught that in my original dissection and was intentionally vague about it because its a bit early. My apologies to anyone that was spoiled And thanks for pointing it out

He wins if he can just get someone, anyone, to attack him hard enough with wild magic.
That old nut. And yet Findail says, "This Despiser is not mad. Should be rouse the Worm himself, without the wild magic in his hand, would he not also be consumed in the destruction of the world?"

If this GI question is considered authoritative, then that means Findail lied or misled us somehow. Interesting.

Im thinking that Findail didnt lie per se.. instead the Despiser needs the White Gold 'Freely given" to him to be able to survive the destruction of the world. The Wild Magic has healed and protected both TC and Linden at times without their will as they are being translocated from the 'real' world to the Land.

[Relayer]

He wins if he can just get someone, anyone, to attack him hard enough with wild magic.
That old nut. And yet Findail says, "This Despiser is not mad. Should be rouse the Worm himself, without the wild magic in his hand, would he not also be consumed in the destruction of the world?"

If this GI question is considered authoritative, then that means Findail lied or misled us somehow. Interesting.

Im thinking that Findail didnt lie per se.. instead the Despiser needs the White Gold 'Freely given" to him to be able to survive the destruction of the world. The Wild Magic has healed and protected both TC and Linden at times without their will as they are being translocated from the 'real' world to the Land.

I'm not sure if that's true. Wasn't the purpose of the venom to try to get Covenant to use too much power? And it almost happened at the end of TOT.

It's possible (though unsure) that Findail, despite having the knowledge of the Elohim, might only understand the "inside" view, i.e. that from the perspective of the Land's world, Foul would be destroyed by the destruction of the world (though he's actually been freed). Or he's only speaking from that perspective; he is a bit depressed and seems to have tunnel vision. An analogy might be how Findail fears that the fulfillment of Vain's purpose will kill him (Findail), but I'd think an Elohim would understand that isn't the case.

What's shaky about this is that certainly he knows that TC and Linden come from another world; he might know this about Foul, but I'm not sure about that one. If Findail is only speaking from the perspective of the Land's world, then it would "seem" that Foul would be destroyed.

Does anybody have more quotes about this?

[wayfriend]

SoulBiter, you may want to edit your post and spoilerize some of that, since we haven't gotten that far in the disection.

Done.. yep I caught that in my original dissection and was intentionally vague about it because its a bit early. My apologies to anyone that was spoiled And thanks for pointing it out

Plus it's not fair because I soooo want to dissect that when we get there ... no fair starting to run before the gun goes off!!!

Does anybody have more quotes about this?

Everything I have ever seen quoted about this topic, from GI or book, is here somewhere.

[Relayer]

Thanks WF. I'll have to read your post again. Good stuff!!

ps. the dissection for the next chapter is ready and post it when I get home tonight...