Sexism and the law

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Cail
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Sexism and the law

Post by Cail »

www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/02/01/lake.drowning.ap/index.html
CLINTON, Illinois (AP) -- A woman convicted of letting her three young children drown in a car that sank in a lake was sentenced Thursday to 10 years in prison.

Amanda Hamm, 30, was convicted in December in the deaths of Christopher Hamm, 6, Austin Brown, 3, and Kyleigh Hamm, 1, who were trapped in the car in Clinton Lake in 2003. She was cleared of first-degree murder charges that would have sent her to prison for life.

Prosecutors allege Hamm and then-boyfriend Maurice LaGrone Jr. planned the deaths because the children were in the way of their relationship. Hamm and LaGrone, who was convicted of first-degree murder, have maintained the car accidentally rolled into the water as LaGrone tried to back up from a boat ramp.

Hamm had faced a sentence ranging from probation to 20 years.

Her mother, Ann Powers, said she was pleased with the sentence, while prosecutors were disappointed. The children's father had said he wanted the maximum sentence imposed.

Powers had argued for leniency, saying she did not think Hamm meant for her children to die.

"I don't think there's any intent. ... I don't really know what to say," she said, choking back tears.

Defense attorney Steve Skelton has said he will ask that Hamm be released with credit for the time she already has spent in jail. He also plans to appeal her conviction.

LaGrone, 31, serving a life sentence without a chance of parole, has appealed his conviction.
This pretty much speaks for itself. Woman and man killed the woman's 3 kids. Man get's 1st-degree murder and life in prison, woman gets 10 years.

What. The. F*ck.

If this isn't sexism, I'll eat my hat.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
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Post by A Gunslinger »

It's rather like the female teachers that get caught having sex with students. While some get heavy sentences, a lot seem to get lighter setences than what a male teacher would get.

You gotta know, and rightfully so, that if a 40 year old man had it with a 15 year old girl... they'd throw the book at him so hard his teeth would fall on the floor like loose Chicklets.

That one teacher in FL (the blonde bombshell) walked away serving her time AT HOME!!
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Post by Cail »

Exactly. Crime's crime, no matter whether you have breasts or not.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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Post by Plissken »

>Ohhhmmmmm....<

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Post by lucimay »

ok...somebody submit this case to Bill Kurtis at Investigative Reports or something...

there's not enough information in that article for me to understand THAT kind of difference in those sentences!!

that makes no sense when other "killer moms" have gotten much heavier sentences.
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Post by Cail »

Really?
Susan Smith got life (but she'll be eligible for parole after 30 years), but Andrea Yates was found Not Guilty. Don't even get me started on Lorena Bobbit.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
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Post by kevinswatch »

Yeah, it would help if I knew more about the case, but just based on that article, that sounds pretty messed up. Assuming of course that both the man and woman had an equal part in the childrens' deaths.-jay
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Post by Usivius »

Lorena Bobbit (an Ecudorian by birth) was given a hero's welcome back in Ecuador by the (then, very crazy) president and had an estate dinner and everything...

:roll:


(on a side note, my wife is from ecuador, so I make sure if she is upset wiht me and we have not made up before bed-time, I sleep on the couch. I haven't got my metal cod-piece yet... ;) )
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Post by Cail »

If only there was some way to search the internet....

www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/10/nati ... 7831.shtml
abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=News&id=934888
www.pantagraph.com/articles/2006/03/10/news/108672.txt
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
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Post by Plissken »

>Iwillanotra-aa-aa-aant -- Ohhhmmmm...<
“If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.”
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"If you're going to tell people the truth, you'd better make them laugh. Otherwise they'll kill you." - George Bernard Shaw
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Post by Cail »

Pliss, this is as close to a blatant set-up as I'm willing to get.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
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Post by Plissken »

Fine, here we go:

The underlying ideas that allow for this disparity in judgement is about as sexist as it is possible to be: "That poor woman was obviously under the inflence of an Evil Man, and therefore is not as culpable..."

Gods.

We might as well dredge up the stereotype of the Femme Fatale, declare that the poor man involved was only thinking with his gonads and was therefore led astray by the Devious Minx, and reverse the sentences.

I don't understand why women aren't out marching in the streets, demanding that they be held just as culpable for their crimes as any man, and...

Naah.

That'd be silly.

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Post by Cail »

Yep, that's what I was looking for.

"We only want to be equal to a point".
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
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Post by Holsety »

Plissken wrote:I don't understand why women aren't out marching in the streets, demanding that they be held just as culpable for their crimes as any man, and...
Hey, Susie B never had to pay that fine, right?

EDIT-I'll never really understand sentencing law :(
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Post by Trapper »

edit
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Reply to Pliss

Post by taraswizard »

Pliss wrote before now
The underlying ideas that allow for this disparity in judgement is about as sexist as it is possible to be: "That poor woman was obviously under the inflence of an Evil Man, and therefore is not as culpable..."
'And based on the evidence we've seen here, none of us have any way of judging that the circumstance you derisively describe are not accurately descriptive of the situation. There are histories of evil men who have made men and women commit heinous acts beyond descrition. (and let's be clear I'm not necessarily describing some type of Svengali mind contro scenario)

IMO, a more telling situation is the Andrea Yates, of Naperville, Illinois, who shelfishly killed her own childern, and tried to take her own life and then by using a variation of tht "Twinkie" defense got away with it. Her defense said her depression over her impending divorce, alleviated her from criminal responsibility.

But what do I know, I'm probably completely full of crap.
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Post by finn »

....ever read MacBeth?
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Post by Avatar »

I'm not surprised. Certainly I agree with Cail and Pliss, (whose many rants over the years have convinced me) that this is merely sexism.

But, I gotta make a point.

Does anybody think that women are stupid? Of course they only want equality where it's an advantage to them. Come on. :lol:

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Re: Sexism and the law

Post by Revan »

Cail wrote:www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/02/01/lake.drowning.ap/index.html
CLINTON, Illinois (AP) -- A woman convicted of letting her three young children drown in a car that sank in a lake was sentenced Thursday to 10 years in prison.

Amanda Hamm, 30, was convicted in December in the deaths of Christopher Hamm, 6, Austin Brown, 3, and Kyleigh Hamm, 1, who were trapped in the car in Clinton Lake in 2003. She was cleared of first-degree murder charges that would have sent her to prison for life.

Prosecutors allege Hamm and then-boyfriend Maurice LaGrone Jr. planned the deaths because the children were in the way of their relationship. Hamm and LaGrone, who was convicted of first-degree murder, have maintained the car accidentally rolled into the water as LaGrone tried to back up from a boat ramp.

Hamm had faced a sentence ranging from probation to 20 years.

Her mother, Ann Powers, said she was pleased with the sentence, while prosecutors were disappointed. The children's father had said he wanted the maximum sentence imposed.

Powers had argued for leniency, saying she did not think Hamm meant for her children to die.

"I don't think there's any intent. ... I don't really know what to say," she said, choking back tears.

Defense attorney Steve Skelton has said he will ask that Hamm be released with credit for the time she already has spent in jail. He also plans to appeal her conviction.

LaGrone, 31, serving a life sentence without a chance of parole, has appealed his conviction.
This pretty much speaks for itself. Woman and man killed the woman's 3 kids. Man get's 1st-degree murder and life in prison, woman gets 10 years.

What. The. F*ck.

If this isn't sexism, I'll eat my hat.
Can I offer ketchup and a side plate of fries with that, sir?

This is absurd. Also, sexism and how it is used to women's advantage is not just seen in the court of law; it can be seen in battles for custody of children; and the welfare state. Though on the most part, this is a good thing; there are exceptions. There are cases where men are unable to get in contact with their children because women protest against it; regardless if he is a decent father or not.

So sexism in this case is rather unsurprising. I do not fault the woman that she has not been brought to justice - but the system for not bringing justice to the woman.
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Post by Avatar »

An interesting point Darth. It's not her fault that the justice system allows...I dunno...passes? like that. And as I said, nobody could be expected not to take advantage of that. *shrug*

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