The Linden Avery Anti-Fan Club?

Post by **Ryzel** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 8:38 am

Linden was quite annoying at first, but after LFB I had a high tolerance for that. She got better as time went by, and in WGW she did a lot of good.

Post by **amanibhavam** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 9:19 am

I think for me the most infuriating moment about Linden was when she so easily believed everything mad dead Kevin had said about Covenant.

Anyway, she had bad moments and fine moments Morn Hyland is a more likeable heroine, but Linden was okay after all. I think most people dislike her - if they do - is that sometimes it seems she will overshadow TC and take his role in the redemption in the Land - and I think everybody feels that after the First Chrons that role belongs to Covenant and nobody else...

Post by **Dragonlily** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 1:19 pm

amanibhavam wrote:I think for me the most infuriating moment about Linden was when she so easily believed everything mad dead Kevin had said about Covenant

That's true, I felt the same. But to do her credit, Covenant had been acting like a combination of spoiled kid (I wanna save the Land) and martyr (I am so bad I don't deserve my time for love) for some time.

If he hadn't been sunk in his dramatics, wasn't there some way he could have found to convey, "Trust me. I know what I'm doing"? Even though he couldn't let Foul overhear his idea, Linden had been inside his mind and should at least understand him to that degree, if he had tried to communicate.

It says a lot about the Elohim that they didn't think the Ringbearer and the Chosen could act as a team. Their predictions increased the friction between TC and LA.

Post by **variol son** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 3:25 am

We have all had six whole books to get used to TC, but only three to get used to LA. I think that Linden will become more likable as the third chronicles progresses.

Sum sui generis
Vs

Post by **kevinswatch** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 5:56 am

It's been a while since I've read the series, so I can't say what I really though about Linden by the end of the series. But I do remember that she had a habit of annoying me...heh. More so then Covenant did in the first series.-jay

Post by **Skyweir** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 6:45 am

birdandbear wrote:Covenant did save the Land. Linden healed it. They both played vital roles in the Land's redemption. TC was by no means unnecessary.

And I love Linden. If for no other reason than that she made TC happy for 3 pages.

i'm with bird on this

.. I appreciated the fact that she didnt treat TC like a leper .. she gave him what Joan failed to give him .. and for that she deserves my gratitude and even .... my respect ..

I resented her presence in the beginning of TWL .. and it was kinda a rocky road from there ... liking her .. disliking her ..

I really didnt like the way she wigged out on .. whathisname haruchai .. and i kinda felt sickened by her killing her mum .. even though she really was an abusive and vile parent ..

but at the end of the day .. i do kinda like her

Post by **TRC** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 8:23 am

I disliked Linden for all the same stuff that I empathized TC for, the self-loathing and pity just got old in Her for some reason, but aside from that I think she would make a great Concubine.

Post by **matrixman** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:44 am

I had no problems accepting Linden. The Second Chronicles was a whole new thing. So it was good, perhaps even necessary, to see the Land from a new perspective--Linden's perspective. Besides, it's compelling to read about people, either real or fictional, who carry with them a lot of emotional baggage. That's Donaldson's forte, is it not? The question of like or dislike is important, yes, but it's all about the story, how Linden fits into the grand scheme of things. Linden is beautiful to me in her way. Her character seems to be more of a litmus test for readers than Thomas Covenant ever was. Interesting...

Post by **Skyweir** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 8:49 am

mmm .. you make a good point matrixman .. and yes these kinds of characters are Donaldson's forte

Post by **amanibhavam** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:46 pm

I've always wondered: was Linden's health-sense something extra, exceptional? Or was it just the same level of perception, as that of the inhabitants of the old Land? If, for example, Lord Mhoram would have been transferred to the Land under the Sunbane, would he perceive everything woth the same acuity as Linden? Or was it really exceptional?

Post by **Dragonlily** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:53 pm

Other people in the Land had Linden's healing instincts, but even Mhoram never tried to get inside Covenant to try to heal his mind. For certain Elena would have tried if she could have, she had no qualms about meddling in private things when she felt the need. I think that says Linden was exceptional.

Post by **danlo** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 3:32 pm

I think it would have to be--not only because of her training as a Dr. but there has to be some serious reason SRD explores her psyche in such painstaking depth. There has to be some other side of the coin (paradox, as it were) to her father's suicide and bloodbath and her mother's condition, the value of life, and her descision to smother her. Just as it almost makes her of Raver caliber that she was in fact a murderess, in the eyes of Gibbon, she is also pushed to persue the ultimate value of life and living if in fact it is to be judged 'mercy killing" and the lessons learned from witnessing the suicide.

Another argument for Mhoram not doing so well was compromised earthpower. Prehaps in what's left of Andelian but the corruption elsewhere might have blinded him. TC's leprosy was not arrested in the 2nd series, his nerves did not regenerate and he could not see. But Linden can...Perhaps not only because she has 'fresh' eyes with which to view the Land but also because she plumbs the depths of disease, corruption, and is intuitively programmed to work to find the value of life that leads her to tap what little earthpower is left in the Land.

Post by **DukkhaWaynhim** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 5:58 pm

danlo wrote:I think it would have to be--not only because of her training as a Dr. but there has to be some serious reason SRD explores her psyche in such painstaking depth. There has to be some other side of the coin (paradox, as it were) to her father's suicide and bloodbath and her mother's condition, the value of life, and her descision to smother her. Just as it almost makes her of Raver caliber that she was in fact a murderess, in the eyes of Gibbon, she is also pushed to persue the ultimate value of life and living if in fact it is to be judged 'mercy killing" and the lessons learned from witnessing the suicide.

Another argument for Mhoram not doing so well was compromised earthpower. Prehaps in what's left of Andelian but the corruption elsewhere might have blinded him. TC's leprosy was not arrested in the 2nd series, his nerves did not regenerate and he could not see. But Linden can...Perhaps not only because she has 'fresh' eyes with which to view the Land but also because she plumbs the depths of disease, corruption, and is intuitively programmed to work to find the value of life that leads her to tap what little earthpower is left in the Land.

Very good points, danlo!

Myself, I thought that Linden's Health-sense was similar to what TC and all Land-Born had in FCTC, but was amplified by the fact that she was the *only* one who seemed to have it in SC (as far as I can tell, not even the Haruchai had it). The Health-sense was focused completely on her, taking it to a higher level (sensing, causing, and even possessing). Linden could use it adroitly because of her medical training (remember the scene where she grabs Thomas' hand and uses the ring like a scalpel, totally shocking/shaming TC?). Due to her unique emotional makeup, though, she had no way initially to reconcile the Health-sense as a good thing, or even a neutral thing. The Land's gift violated her because it forced her to accept that there was Evil in the world---which she needed to ignore to justify her own choices regarding her mother.

One reason why I initially disliked Linden--and TC for that matter--was the negativity shown toward the idea of being in the Land at all. This stemmed from my inability to separate my own feelings from what were realistic reactions for them (kudos again to SRD for making realistic fantasy characters!).
In other words, I irrationally disliked Thomas and Linden for not loving the cool things they were getting to do, without considering all the baggage they were carrying [remember that I first read TCTC in junior high!]. Now, however, I feel like I understand and appreciate them much better, because I know that Thomas and Linden are essentially damaged people that weren't weaned on Tolkien and Donaldson fantasy like I was!

Post by **danlo** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 7:35 pm

DW wrote:Due to her unique emotional makeup, though, she had no way initially to reconcile the Health-sense as a good thing, or even a neutral thing. The Land's gift violated her because it forced her to accept that there was Evil in the world---which she needed to ignore to justify her own choices regarding her mother

.

Superb additional point! Which makes the implications of the Raver almost shocking her to death in the beginning of TWL even more intense!

Post by **Revan** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 2:01 pm

I liked Linden, i thought she was a really good character. IMO anyways...

Post by **danlo** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 3:28 pm

you keep saying that...please explain why and how...

Post by **Revan** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 3:32 pm

She makes Thomas happy for once! Isn't that reason enough.

Post by **CovenantJr** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 3:47 pm

Hell no!

Post by **Revan** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 3:51 pm

Why not! Would you rather him be a sad loser whom the closet he got to getting laid in 11 years was rapping someone.

Post by **danlo** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 3:52 pm

HAHA Cjr u sound just like Fangthane when u say that!

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