Pantheon - The Third Age - Game Thread

[Cryak]

To the Eclipse members:

So far, two of you - including your 'stones' have mentioned that any action against you or your hidden members will result in great vengence from the rest of the group. Yet, if we are unaware of all the members of your alliance, how can we know who to avoid?

I apologize, Calais. The members of our Alliance who wish to remain undisclosed also understand that said secrecy will result in lack of support on our part. However, shoiuld they disclose themselves publicly any further aggression would invoke our immediate aid.

How curious, the selection of those who represent your mighty alliance. Perhaps your fellows in the shadows are wise to remain there.

The Eclipse claims that the Courts are filled with deluded gods, yet look upon their own number: the Void denies the very existence of its vaunted allies; the Serpent tells himself that he alone is truly a god.

The Eclipse says that the Courts are bloodthirsty, while the Serpent swims in the blood of sacrifice, and the Storm craves to roil and blow toward havok.
The Eclipse says that they are mighty, yet the Lord of Storms flounders, unable to even impress his own followers, who cannot make up their minds as to whether they wish to worship him.

The Eclipse claims that it is united, determined, and strong, yet some of its members fear to reveal their names.

If this is what this grand alliance wish to show of themselves, then they show themselves as fools.

As in true in nature it takes many opposites to make a complete force. It requires both Northerly and Southernly winds to make a storm; both the skies and the earth to make Eiran. Likewise, it takes both those who are strong and those who are weak, worshiped and unsure of, those who act in light and those who act in darkness.

I hold nothing against my allies, and they hold nothing against me. In a world of hostile intentions for little apparent reason, is it foolish to find common ground? You're first interactions with me Bel, and I doubt that this tone implies wishing to find peace with me. Is it truly surprising that I found agreement with those who are of more likeness in thought? It seems more hypocritical to see one of Peace allied with one of Vengeance.

The self-contradiction, illogic, and hypocrisy of this alliance is staggering. It already kills innocents indiscriminately and unapolagetically, but now demands none ever bother any of their followers.

I assume you mean the "killing" of the trees around Olvir? As I remember it, Zephyr, that desert was created defensively against a crusade being sent by an ally of yours. "Innocence" is to be determined.

The Sun, most powerful of all, and, to my knowledge, entirely unmolested by anyone, is, nonetheless, in a "fury" as it threatens horrors on all who do not continue to leave him alone.

Nor Yekith admits to having already mutated followers of some of us, promises this will continue, but seems to think we should be consoled by his saying he would "rather" we embraced what he is going to do anyway. And his actions and attempted actions in the Second Age, and while away from Eiran, are legendary.

Coming from one who outlaws the unapproved use of chopsticks without consulation, your undertone that what we do doesn't make sense seems a little comical.

Come now, Eclipse Alliance, why not just speak plainly and honestly, as your actions to date have done for you? What do you believe you accomplish this way?

What I accomplish?

Now, Zephyr. That would be spoiling the fun of allowing you to see it first hand! However, I will allow my allies to decide for themselves if they will disclose to you their reasons for joining our Alliance.


:edit: (Sorry I missed it. )

You take much upon yourselves at little urging or for less reason I suspect. Actions speak louder than words, and by your actions shall I judge my response. But I shall brook no interference in the lands I regard my own.

*bows*

An no interference in your lands is intended, Mighty Warrior. I can assure you of that. I would ask only that the same be extended to me.

*bow*

[Zephyr]

Exactly my point. I have no doubt you WILL show your intentions, and they will bear little resemblence to "Leave us alone, and we'll leave you alone." And no, I am not talking about the Trees you helped destroy, but my followers who lived in that part of the Forest. They were entirely innocent of anything but living in the Forest. The three of you murdered them, and YOU fully admitted you don't give a damn. So if any of us harm your followers, we will suffer tremendously. At the same time, you will kill our followers whenever it suits you. Sounds like a wonderful alliance.

[Arcadia]

I apologize, Calais. The members of our Alliance who wish to remain undisclosed also understand that said secrecy will result in lack of support on our part. However, shoiuld they disclose themselves publicly any further aggression would invoke our immediate aid.

Thank you, Tawahiri-matea, for that clarification.

[Cryak]

Exactly my point. I have no doubt you WILL show your intentions, and they will bear little resemblence to "Leave us alone, and we'll leave you alone."

And we are alone in this? Come now, Zephyr. Even you have to admit that very few of us in this world will tell all our little secret hatchings and plots. Even you wont fully disclose your plans for the world. For we ALL have plans for the world. It is the essence of deific life. We are the largest things on this world. As such, we each want to be the ONLY largest thing on the world. It is the inevitable struggle.

And no, I am not talking about the Trees you helped destroy, but my followers who lived in that part of the Forest. They were entirely innocent of anything but living in the Forest. The three of you murdered them, and YOU fully admitted you don't give a damn.

Aren't your followers Trees? I'm beginning to dread that every time my people break and axe handle, I will be accused of murder.

So if any of us harm your followers, we will suffer tremendously. At the same time, you will kill our followers whenever it suits you.

You could do the same, Zephyr. If anything, I am a little embarresed for your followers. If we truly "murdered" them, why are you doing noting about it then mewling like the youth you are? I have tried to explain this before, and fallen on many deaf ears on this world.

The strong survive.

You wish for your followers to be safe from the world? Protect them.

Sounds like a wonderful alliance.

You have no idea, O Leafy One.

[Bel]

I hold nothing against my allies, and they hold nothing against me. In a world of hostile intentions for little apparent reason, is it foolish to find common ground? You're first interactions with me Bel, and I doubt that this tone implies wishing to find peace with me. Is it truly surprising that I found agreement with those who are of more likeness in thought? It seems more hypocritical to see one of Peace allied with one of Vengeance.

You must realise that I have said nothing of the alliance itself, but only of how you have chosen to present it: with hypocrisy and falsehoods. You make many claims as to the nature of those in your alliance, yet those claims are contradicated by the nature shown by those who have named themselves.
Answer me my last point: if you are united, if you are strong, if you are clear of mind and intent, why do some of you choose to hide yourselves, and--as I gather from your own statements, Lord of Storms--by doing so forswear the mutual defence that forms such a large part of the purpose of this alliance?

[Zephyr]

My apologies. I did not know there was a developmentally disabled god among us. Unless you are only pretending to be that stupid. Are your followers clouds??? Or lightning bolts??? Of course not! Nor are mine Trees. Many of my followers are Tree Elders, and many are Humans. Some Centaurs, some Houka, etc. *shakes head* And I cannot say whether or not you are alone in your need to be the only deity. I can only speak for myself. I would GLADLY leave you alone if you left me alone. Alas, you have already murdered many of my followers, and dismissed it as insignificant. So much for your alliance's attitude.

[Cryak]

I apologize, Calais. The members of our Alliance who wish to remain undisclosed also understand that said secrecy will result in lack of support on our part. However, shoiuld they disclose themselves publicly any further aggression would invoke our immediate aid.

Thank you, Tawahiri-matea, for that clarification.

You are very welcome.

You must realise that I have said nothing of the alliance itself, but only of how you have chosen to present it: with hypocrasy and falsehoods.

My apologies. I must learn not to jump to assumptions, no matter the logic.

You make many claims as to the nature of those in your alliance, yet those claims are contradicted by the nature shown by those who have named themselves.

Might you give an example so I may respond? I am unsure what you mean specifically.

Answer me my last point: if you are united, if you are strong, if you are clear of mind and intent, why do some of you choose to hide yourselves, and--as I gather from your own statements, Lord of Storms--by doing so forswear the mutual defence that forms such a large part of the purpose of this alliance?

It seems like the two statements are unconnected. You said "if you are united, if you are strong, if you are clear of mind and intent," and then "why do some of you choose to hide yourselves." This first is a statement that affects only the members of the Alliance. The latter includes the Pantheon as a whole.

We are united and strong, clear of mind and intent. We each know the workings of the others and, in many cases, have had joint expenditures and plans. Much as the Courts, behind the doors things become much clearer.

But the latter then adds in the Pantheon, contradicting itself. "why do some of you choose to hide yourselves." It is as simple as your own reasons, Bel. We do not wish to. Will you tell me of all your plans and plots? If you were member to an Alliance other than the Courts, would you disclose it? Have you had workings with Amplarx? Rothmog? Calais?

Everyone here has secret alliances they do not wish to have known to others, for knowledge is a weapon. And once that weapon is given to the enemy, it cannot EVER be taken back. We are simply not all in the same habits of giving weapons to out enemies.

[Cryak]

My apologies. I did not know there was a developmentally disabled god among us. Unless you are only pretending to be that stupid. Are your followers clouds??? Or lightning bolts??? Of course not! Nor are mine Trees. Many of my followers are Tree Elders, and many are Humans. Some Centaurs, some Houka, etc. *shakes head*

Zephyr, please do not play coy. Even YOU will acknowledge that is was a logical jump to think that you would be of the belief that EVERY tree is a person. Even I could be swayed to that, for I know there is a difference between a lightning bolt and a living thing.

It was a viable question.

And I cannot say whether or not you are alone in your need to be the only deity. I can only speak for myself. I would GLADLY leave you alone if you left me alone. Alas, you have already murdered many of my followers, and dismissed it as insignificant. So much for your alliance's attitude.

Zephyr, where did I say that I was of the same mind as you? Leave alone, and be left alone? I cannot speak for my allies, but I think in VERY different terms.

[uKulwa]

...I shall brook no interference in the lands I regard my own.

*bows*

And no interference in your lands is intended, Mighty Warrior. I can assure you of that. I would ask only that the same be extended to me.

*bow*

I am glad that we understand each other brother.

And he is right Bel. You and I are but two sides of the same coin. Without War, there could be no appreciation or understanding of peace. And without peace to be broken, there could be no War. I respect your place in the world as necessary for my own, and hope you do likewise.

[Cryak]

And before Zephyr jumps for the bait, I would say that my dealings with uKulwa have been different from my dealings with Zephyr.

I am capable of live and let live, just probably not with Zephyr.

[Zephyr]

The thought that every Tree is a person is a ridiculous notion. And it has nothing to do with this conversation. The point is that you, Eztlicoatl, and the Void murdered many of my followers when you destroyed part of Enstorm's Forest, and you have not the slightest thought that you did anything wrong. Your alliance kills whoever it wishes, then says it will inflict great horrors on anyone who harms YOUR followers. What was the point of your alliance's announcements, and how does that point fit in with your murders and your attitude towards murder? You had NO REASON to NOT have a live and let live relationship with me. You simply decided to kill my followers.

[Eugen Razvan]

As I understand it, you simply refused to negotiate. When you were asked to remove one of your saplings from the Sun God's lands you did nothing - ignored the request.

So stop whining.

[Cryak]

You're trying to say how we created the Olvir Desert JUST to kill your people?

Zephyr.

We care about you, but not THAT much. That's borderline egotistical. The Olvir Desert was made in defense against a crusade your ally started. It just so happened that it was let Olvir be attacked or kill a few of your people in the crossfire.

We chose the latter. Please don't flatter yourself.

[Bel]

Might you give an example so I may respond? I am unsure what you mean specifically.

I have given them. You claim that the members of the Eclipse are strong, yet you yourself are weak. You claim that others not in your alliance are deluded and bloodthirsty, when there those among your own number who have done more to seem thus than any others in this pantheon.

It seems like the two statements are unconnected. You said "if you are united, if you are strong, if you are clear of mind and intent," and then "why do some of you choose to hide yourselves." This first is a statement that affects only the members of the Alliance. The latter includes the Pantheon as a whole.

We are united and strong, clear of mind and intent. We each know the workings of the others and, in many cases, have had joint expenditures and plans. Much as the Courts, behind the doors things become much clearer.

And again I speak of how you have announced yourselves: your announcement speaks with such surety of your strength and will, yet you do not reveal your identities. The voice given to the Eclipse speaks words that are at odds with its behaviour, for were you truly all that you claim, you would not need to remain in secret.



Lord of War, that you cannot conceive of Peace without War is not a surprise to me: it is a failing of your nature, that clings to war and violence as it has not the ability to view power as other than the power to do harm unto others. Such things are ever thus, in those that have not the capacity for enlightenment.


[And my internet's started dropping out again, so it's getting really hard for me to keep up with this argument...]

[Cryak]

I have given them. You claim that the members of the Eclipse are strong, yet you yourself are weak. You claim that others not in your alliance are deluded and bloodthirsty, when there those among your own number who have done more to seem thus than any others in this pantheon.

Then how was answer unsatisfactory? I replied that it does not require only those who are strong of arm or weak of faith. It requires both sides. Those who are weak of arm as well as weak in faith. And sometimes it includes both. Weak of arm AND faith.

As for the delusion, I can only answer that insanity is in the eye of the beholder.

And again I speak of how you have announced yourselves: your announcement speaks with such surety of your strength and will, yet you do not reveal your identities. The voice given to the Eclipse speaks words that are at odds with its behavior, for were you truly all that you claim, you would not need to remain in secret.

Ahhh... I see now.

In that respect, I can only answer for myself. I do not wish to reveal my intentions because I do not wish them to be known. I would think that is answer enough. I will allow the other members of the Alliance to answer your question themselves, if they should wish. *bow*

[And my internet's started dropping out again, so it's getting really hard for me to keep up with this argument...]

[We'll keep it warm for you! ]

[Zephyr]

I never thought it was about me. The problem Eiran faces is that you and your allies kill whoever you want for whatever reason you decide is sufficient justification. That you see no problem with that attitude is probably not lost on the Pantheon.

[Cryak]

I never thought it was about me.

I beg to differ:

The point is that you, Eztlicoatl, and the Void murdered many of my followers when you destroyed part of Enstorm's Forest, and you have not the slightest thought that you did anything wrong.

You had NO REASON to NOT have a live and let live relationship with me. You simply decided to kill my followers.

They were entirely innocent of anything but living in the Forest. The three of you murdered them, and YOU fully admitted you don't give a damn

and how does that point fit in with your murders and your attitude towards murder?

At every turn you mention murder. Murder implies premeditation and planning. Your followers in that forest were killed by a side effect, not murder.

The problem Eiran faces is that you and your allies kill whoever you want for whatever reason you decide is sufficient justification. That you see no problem with that attitude is probably not lost on the Pantheon.

Eiran? I remember making no mention of wanting to destroy the world. I am sorry if the statement I made before about the nature of deific life was passed on the wrong way. I meant that to be a broad statement on a general idea. As of right now, I am only formulating my long term plans. I am sure that they do not threated the WHOLE world. Only a part of it.

[Bel]

Zephyr, your argument is futile. You say yourself: they would kill whomever they find sufficient justification to do so. If that is so, and those that kill believe their reason is sufficient, then you shall not convince them otherwise. Nor shall they convince you to set aside your own reason. Such certainties are inherent and, alas, inalterable. You shall find no end to this through argument.

[Zephyr]

Oh rubbish. i told you what you did immediately after you killed them. As now, your attitude was, "So?" You could not care less that you killed innocents. How safe is every other innocent in the world?

[The Void]

A rushing noise is heard from all around within the pantheon, it seems to fill every conceivable space yet not be present at the same time. the, the words that follow are more known then heard.

This Pantheon is full of debates that are unnecessary and flawed in their very nature.

To answer questions and alleviate fears, you shall all now know the standings of The Eclipse alliance.

To begin with, the deaths caused by the great Olvir desert. These were a regrettable case of collateral damage. You seem to forget, Zephyr, that your ally Unzen had troops inbound towards Olvir. How many lives would have been lost if they had been allowed to arrive. It was plainly obvious that Unzen himself would not support the attack, so the making of the desert was a calculated risk. All life from the surrounding plains were drawn into the city walls and the desert was created. As expected Unzen managed to stop the crusading hordes, and the desert has served its purpose of buying time for those in Olvir. But what if he had no stopped them in time? How many more would have died? Would you not have done the same for your followers? Do you not intend revenge? You think that the Eclipse is stupid enough to believe your self pitying whining is the only compensation you will get? I am sure that if the mortals who worship The Void had any knowledge of life within the forests, they would have forewarned them, but time was a luxury they did not have.

Also, those hordes still sit on the edge of the desert awaiting it to become more hospitable to attack. The mortals of the lands are seeking peace as this conversation takes place.

as for secrecy of members, come Bell. You are truly one of the more intelligent gods within this Pantheon. You can no doubt figure that out for yourself. Sometimes it is more useful to stay in the shadows.

As for weakness on the part of certain Eclipse members, their followers keep turning to the ways of science, so in reality the Eclipse doesn't lose or gain strength from the act at all, it just ebbs and flows like a tide.

As for the Existence of The Void as a whole. Belief is existence. Through the belief of mortals all beings called gods exist. The Void has come about from people being aware of the ever lasting state of nothingness, of the peoples knowledge that life is but a spec on an eternity of empty nothingness. Indeed the power of the Deities belief in The Void has helped it manifest more so. It is the Voids followers who dont believe you all exist. Dont get that confused.

The message from the Eclipse is a simple one. The alliance exists out of a desired mutual protection. No intention for open war is planned from the alliance as a whole. The strong tone was used to ensure that plans that were in effect now were put on hold. Indeed there is no reason why the courts could not come to an agreement with the Eclipse. Instead you see a collection of gods you dont like that have banded together out of defense against you and your very plans and then start pointing the finger.


There is no intention to start war with other deities. Only to defend one another from the ignorance and fear of other gods.


(OOC I have probably missed several of the latest posts in here as this arguments happening hard and fast)