The Official Vice President Thread

Post by **Cybrweez** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:04 pm

Good point Vain.

Post by **Brother Charn** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:42 pm

Cail wrote:I'm not sure that it's that big of a deal BC. Again, did Bill Clinton pay out of pocket to take Hillary and Chelsea around when he was POTUS? The woman's got a basketball team worth of kids, why is it inappropriate that they travel with her?

Well that's the core of it, isn't it? If Alaska doesn't mind paying for it, and it isn't illegal to do so, then there is no legal or ethical issue. The only thing left to talk about is whether we should care (or be made to care by a faction) that she appears to have specifically relabeled those reimbursement requests after being chosen as VP candidate.
GOP would say there is nothing to spin - but wants us to ignore that changes were seemingly made in the wake of her selection as running-mate. Was she just tidying up things to reduce her chances of being called to task for something that she is being called to task for anyway? Probably. Are people making a bigger deal out of it than it deserves? Surely.
DEMs and attention-seeking journalists of course are crying "hypocrisy!", "cover-up!" and "money scandal!" quite predictably.
The fairer ones are quick to point out there is nothing illegal, but it still gives us (perhaps pithless) substance over which both campaigns can spin and posture.

dw

Post by **Cail** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:45 pm

According to her, she's added detail to avoid the appearance of impropriety.

But who the Hell actually knows?

Post by **Avatar** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:22 pm

Yep...none of us for sure.

--A

Post by **aliantha** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:58 pm

The only thing that makes me queasy about the travel vouchers is (omg, I may be going all Malik-y here

) is that it sort of points to a pattern with Palin, that she has a sense of entitlement.

She brings her kids to out-of-state events uninvited, she charges the state of Alaska to haul them around, and she hassles the head of the state police to discipline her former brother-in-law and fires the guy when he won't do it. It's as if she feels like she's entitled to throw her weight around because she's special. None of this stuff is illegal, granted. But would it pass a regular person's sniff test in terms of ethical behavior?

As for the clothes, meh. Good point about the RNC. Hey, I don't care *how* they spend their money -- I didn't give them any of *mine*.

Hey, can we talk about the other VP candidate for a minute? I didn't know that Biden's wife is a community college instructor. The Washington Post did a profile on her today.

She seems pretty down-to-earth. Here's my favorite part. It's about the time they were deciding whether Biden would run for president last time around:

Joe had thought about running in '04, but Jill was against it. The Bidens' daughter, Ashley, born in 1981, was still in college and she herself was still working on her doctorate, and in her gut, it just didn't feel like the right time. (As she told Vogue magazine recently, she expressed her opposition one day when a whole bunch of political folks had gathered in the Biden living room to encourage Joe to run. She'd been sunning in a bikini, and she scrawled the word "NO" across her stomach and then walked through the gathering.)

That's just awesome.

Post by **Kinslaughterer** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:42 pm

Remember when the Right nearly had a stroke over John Edwards haircuts?

Funny, McCain was opposed to excessive spending on clothes..

Post by **wayfriend** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:14 pm

150 thousand-dollar suits? A thousand $150 suits? 1500 pairs of shoes?

Post by **kevinswatch** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:36 pm

I can't even contemplate spending that much money on clothes.-jay

Post by **Avatar** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:16 pm

Yeah, I can think of much better stuff...

--A

Post by **Cail** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:39 pm

Allegedly $150,000 of RNC money on clothes. Be nice if there was a link or something....

Still, big deal. It's not taxpayer money.

Post by **Kinslaughterer** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:26 pm

www.people.com/people/article/0,,202349 ... contentcnn

www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14805.html

Sure, the money is from taxpayers. It was public money or by private donation. I'm sure plenty of donors are upset that she went on a 75k shopping spree at Neiman Marcus.

In 2000, Democrat Al Gore took heat for changing his clothing hues. And in 2006, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) was ribbed for two hair styling sessions that cost about $3,000.

Then, there was Democrat John Edwards’ $400 hair cuts in 2007 and Republican McCain’s $520 black leather Ferragamo shoes this year.

A review of similar records for the campaign of Democrat Barack Obama and the Democratic National Committee turned up no similar spending.

But all the spending by other candidates pales in comparison to the GOP outlay for the Alaska governor whose expensive, designer outfits have been the topic of fashion pages and magazines.

Post by **Plissken** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:48 am

I don't really have a problem with spending money to make her presentable on the campaign trail - but with Mac's campaign coffers being comparatively thin, $150K on the Veeps wardrobe does seem to show a strange sense of priorities.

Post by **Vain** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:31 am

Again.Bananas.Monkeys

I can only imagine the snide comments the liberal elite in the tank for Obama media would have had if Palin stuck to wearing her normal clothes. It's one of those doomed if you do and doomed if you don't things.

I'd rather be asking questions around Biden's so-called 'rhetorical flourish' when he warned that Obama would have to deal with a generated international crisis in the first 6 months of his presidency. And he went on to say that it may look initially like they've got the response wrong etc etc. biden gets a pass on that and Obama casts it aside as a 'rhetorical flourish'...aka telling the truth

Post by **Cybrweez** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:56 pm

Vain, who cares about that, Palin spent money on clothes!

Post by **[Syl]** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:12 pm

Vain wrote:Again.Bananas.Monkeys

I wish you'd explain that one. Kiwi slang?

I can only imagine the snide comments...

You can imagine it, but... unless she was downright frumpy, picking on people for not having the best clothes money can buy pretty much goes out of vogue once you leave high school. I can see Joan Rivers doing it, but the Democrats would be shooting themselves in the foot (which isn't to say some wouldn't) to put down a candidate for being humble and down to earth.

It's one of those doomed if you do and doomed if you don't things.

Sarah Palin, Doom Magnet

I'd rather be asking questions around Biden's so-called 'rhetorical flourish' when he warned that Obama would have to deal with a generated international crisis in the first 6 months of his presidency.

I'd humor you on this one, Vain, but I really don't have much to say other than 'meh.' Are you referring to the bit they're using in the new McCain commercials? If that's the worst thing you can pull out of a hotly contested primary, then I think Obama's relatively safe. Likewise, the counter is that Powell's endorsement effectively neutralizes it.

Post by **Plissken** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:36 pm

Every new President is tested. Lieberman said the same thing about McCain. The question is: Does that new President just keep working his photo op with the school children, or does he actually go to work? (of course, there are other questions, like: Will he actually read the PDB's that warn him of the crisis? Will he actually focus on dealing with the crisis? If something actually gets through will he have enough judgment to focus on the perpetrators of crimes against us, or will he use the event to run off half-cocked into a completely unrelated country? You get the idea.)

And speaking of rhetorical flourishes, here's the full Biden quote:

"We're gonna find ourselves in real trouble when we get elected. This is gonna be really hard. This is gonna be really, really, really hard. We're gonna have the largest systemic deficit in modern - not modern - in the history of the world. Literally. Literally. We're gonna find ourselves inheriting a debt, yearly debt this year, that may approach three-quarters of a trillion dollars. You hear me? We left this guy with a $232 billion surplus. At a minimum when we take office - God willing - we're gonna have a $450 billion deficit. And the way the economy is tanking the way it is now it may be as high as $750 billion."

"28 states are in serious trouble and they're about to contribute to the economic downward spiral because what are they doing? Cutting services, laying people off as they lose their tax base. So there are going to be a lot of tough decisions Barack's gonna have to make, a lot of tough decisions, including on foreign policy."

"And here's the point I want to make. Mark my words. Mark my words. It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We're about to elect a brilliant 47-year old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don't remember anything else I said. Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy. And he's gonna have to make some really tough - I don't know what the decision's gonna be, but I promise you it will occur. As a student of history and having served with seven presidents, I guarantee you it's gonna happen. I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate. And he's gonna need help. And the kind of help he's gonna need is, he's gonna need you, not financially to help him, we're gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it's not gonna be apparent initially, it's not gonna be apparent that we're right. Because all these decisions, all these decisions, once they're made if they work, then they weren't viewed as a crisis. If they don't work, it's viewed as you didn't make the right decision, a little bit like how we hesitated so long dealing with Bosnia and dealing with Kosovo, and consequently 200,000 people lost their lives that maybe didn't have to lose lives. It's how we made a mistake in Iraq. We made a mistake in Somalia. So there's gonna be some tough decisions. They may emanate from the Middle East. They may emanate from the sub-continent. They may emanate from Russia's newly-emboldened position because they're floating in a sea of oil."

Personally, I think that's a pretty accurate and honest assessment of the situation. And those are two qualities I've been missing in my Administration for quite a while now.

Post by **wayfriend** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:09 pm

Any president would be tested. Bush was tested eight months into his first term.

I'm also not keen on letting terrorists tell us who we should vote for. If anyone had made a similar claim about McCain, that would be the GOP by-line: the Democrats think that you should let foreign terrorists tell you how to vote. And it would work.

Once again, a case of okay when some poeple do it...

Post by **Avatar** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:14 pm

Plissken wrote:Personally, I think that's a pretty accurate and honest assessment of the situation. And those are two qualities I've been missing in my Administration for quite a while now.

I could argue that, while fairly accurate, it could be preparing the ground for future failures by the DP..."look what we were left with." (Not that they haven't been left with a big mess, but that's not the point.

) And the guy reads a bit like a revivalist preacher.

I can imagine this rolling from the pulpit in a rich southern accent. Maybe with a bit of finger-wagging thrown in.

--A

Post by **Earthwalker** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:18 am

No, my favorite is this one :

"The stylist hired to travel the circut with Palin, makes more money than John McCain's FOREIGN POLICY ADVISOR"...,huh?

OMG...I would be sooooo pissed if I'D spent years of my youth on education, and the long process to be fluent and expert in foreign policy, get a job as an advisor for a guy running for prez!, and be paid less than a hair and make-up artist there on 'temporary assignment'!

sorry foreign policy guy...YOU SO JUST GOT SERVED.

Post by **Vain** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:27 pm

Bananas.Monkeys - not kiwi slang

Just a reference to the media stroking the hoi polloi with something they can identify with - as opposed to understanding the real intricacies of policies

Anyway, this isn't my election - it's an american one. My prediction - despite the shite polls is that McCain will win - if I'm wrong, you're screwed, if I'm right - you'll only think you're screwed

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The Official Vice President Thread