Don't you mean unless they register thru ACORN?Brother Charn wrote:The only people who are perfectly neutral are dead, and they can't vote... except on the GOP ticket in certain states.
dw
US Presidental Elections 2008
--Andy
"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur."
Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.
I believe in the One who says there is life after this.
Now tell me how much more open can my mind be?
"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur."
Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.
I believe in the One who says there is life after this.
Now tell me how much more open can my mind be?
Hold the phone there KT. I have no idea what the picture was of, but I'm willing to bet that Syl's decision to remove it had nothing to do with its political bent.
People, I think I can speak for all of the moderators on Kevin's Watch, and certainly for the ones in the Tank....
We moderate as we see fit, and we all attempt to keep it fair. Enough with the second-guessing.
People, I think I can speak for all of the moderators on Kevin's Watch, and certainly for the ones in the Tank....
We moderate as we see fit, and we all attempt to keep it fair. Enough with the second-guessing.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
-
[Syl]
- Unfettered One
- Posts: 13020
- Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2002 12:36 am
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 1 time
Heh. I was trying to avoid a public fracas about this kind of thing, but...
Sorry, KT, I didn't know if you were joking or not, but it's pretty much policy not to carry on these kinds of meta discussions in public. If you or anyone else truly are concerned, my PM box is always open.
If curious minds want to know, the second image was just too graphic, IMO. I felt it was not necessary to make the point.
Sorry, KT, I didn't know if you were joking or not, but it's pretty much policy not to carry on these kinds of meta discussions in public. If you or anyone else truly are concerned, my PM box is always open.
If curious minds want to know, the second image was just too graphic, IMO. I felt it was not necessary to make the point.
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
-George Steiner
I was going to put a smiley face, then I realized I was only half kidding. Do what you want; watching what one says: it will be something I need to get used to in the possible upcoming BO era. 
<-----
<-----Cowboy: Why you doin' this, Doc?
Doc Holliday: Because Wyatt Earp is my friend.
Cowboy: Friend? Hell, I got lots of friends.
Doc Holliday: ... I don't.
Doc Holliday: Because Wyatt Earp is my friend.
Cowboy: Friend? Hell, I got lots of friends.
Doc Holliday: ... I don't.
-
Brother Charn
- Giantfriend
- Posts: 420
- Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:54 pm
- Location: Scragnoth!
But, will you be able to recognize a good job done, if he happens to do one, or will it always be attributable to something that GW did, or something that would have happened anyway...?
dw
dw
BCakaDWakaD!
- Brother Charn
***************************************
"Shadows beware! The Light of Day shall find you, no matter where you lurk." - Archbeacon Davos
- Brother Charn
***************************************
"Shadows beware! The Light of Day shall find you, no matter where you lurk." - Archbeacon Davos
-
[Syl]
- Unfettered One
- Posts: 13020
- Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2002 12:36 am
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 1 time
Pre-emptive ejection: Audience members removed at McCain rally in Cedar Falls
“I saw a couple that had been escorted out and they were confused as well, and the girl was crying, so I said ‘Why are you crying? and she said ‘I already voted for McCain, I’m a Republican, and they said we had to leave because we didn’t look right,’” Elborno said. “They were handpicking these people and they had nothing to go off of, besides the way the people looked.”
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
-George Steiner
I actually thought the second image was necessary to make the point but I'm respectful of the decision to edit it out.
But I will link to it so people can view by choice
www.icmpa.umd.edu/salzburg/terrorism/wp ... bing_1.jpg
The point i'm making is that everybody seems to be dismissing Ayers as irrelevant because heck, he bombed people and stuff in the 60's and he's such a respected professor now so any association with him is cool.
Who knows - with such lowered expectations of what's acceptable as a POTUS, McVeigh may actually be a perfectly cool person to pal around with in about 20 years. God bless the USSA and all that jazz.
But I will link to it so people can view by choice
www.icmpa.umd.edu/salzburg/terrorism/wp ... bing_1.jpg
The point i'm making is that everybody seems to be dismissing Ayers as irrelevant because heck, he bombed people and stuff in the 60's and he's such a respected professor now so any association with him is cool.
Who knows - with such lowered expectations of what's acceptable as a POTUS, McVeigh may actually be a perfectly cool person to pal around with in about 20 years. God bless the USSA and all that jazz.
-
[Syl]
- Unfettered One
- Posts: 13020
- Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2002 12:36 am
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 1 time
A pic of (or even discussion about) whatever damage Ayers did would be more relevant. I just don't see what purpose is served other than shock or fear. We've already talked about McVeigh and Ayers (though I'm not sure we've talked about Palin refusing to say Rudolph was a terrorist), and no new info was presented.
But if you really want to talk about McVeigh and terrorism, let's not forget that McVeigh and his associates were fighting for conservative causes. He was a gun enthusiast, against 'Big Government,' a decorated soldier, and apparently a KKK supporter (note: I'm not saying conservatives as a whole support the KKK, just that it's conservative in the political sense). Ideologically, he has far more in common with the McCain/Palin ticket than he does Obama. And while Obama has denounced Ayers' actions, your esteemed VP candidate will not call abortion clinic bomers like Eric Rudolph a terrorist, even if he was on the top of the FBI's most wanted list and even called one explicitly by Alberto Gonzales.
link
I, for one, welcome our new voodoo overlords.McVeigh may actually be a perfectly cool person to pal around with in about 20 years.
But if you really want to talk about McVeigh and terrorism, let's not forget that McVeigh and his associates were fighting for conservative causes. He was a gun enthusiast, against 'Big Government,' a decorated soldier, and apparently a KKK supporter (note: I'm not saying conservatives as a whole support the KKK, just that it's conservative in the political sense). Ideologically, he has far more in common with the McCain/Palin ticket than he does Obama. And while Obama has denounced Ayers' actions, your esteemed VP candidate will not call abortion clinic bomers like Eric Rudolph a terrorist, even if he was on the top of the FBI's most wanted list and even called one explicitly by Alberto Gonzales.
link
From the above link:Vain wrote:...he bombed people and stuff in the 60's...
Guess which "domestic terrorist" organization is more politically relevant today? The now defunct Weathermen (whom never killed anyone but their own members in a bomb-making mishap)? Or the right-wing Army of God which still exists and is out there calling people like unrepentant murderer Eric Rudolph a matryr to the cause?
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
-George Steiner
-
Farsailer
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 1012
- Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:26 pm
- Location: The Public Employee Unions' Republic of California
I would not know about that. The KKK was once a mainstay of the Democratic Party, something they don't want to admit now. Some of those Hillary voters who won't go for Obama are the last remaining vestiges of the racist heritage of the Dems.Syl wrote:(note: I'm not saying conservatives as a whole support the KKK, just that it's conservative in the political sense).
A government big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take everything you have.
-
[Syl]
- Unfettered One
- Posts: 13020
- Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2002 12:36 am
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 1 time
Yeah, up until Nixon's Southern Strategy that drew out the Dixiecrats from the Democratic Party (well, further away, I should say). But I think you missed the point of the caveat or are conflating Democratic with 'liberal.' There are gay Republicans, openly, even, but that doesn't make gay rights a conservative issue. Far from it. And just because that's not something the Republicans shout from the rooftops, I don't think you could say that they 'don't want to admit' it.
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
-George Steiner
-
Prebe
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 7926
- Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:19 pm
- Location: People's Republic of Denmark
Good posts Syl.
And Vain, by your yardstick (the emotional impact of pictures of suffering and destruction), you really should hope that nobody starts posting pictures of (or links to) the detailed human impact of coalition bombing or similar events; Allah knows there are enough to choose from.
And Vain, by your yardstick (the emotional impact of pictures of suffering and destruction), you really should hope that nobody starts posting pictures of (or links to) the detailed human impact of coalition bombing or similar events; Allah knows there are enough to choose from.
"I would have gone to the thesaurus for a more erudite word."
-Hashi Lebwohl
-Hashi Lebwohl
Terrorists are terrorists. I'm not sure why you guys don't see that clearly and try and point fingers in opposite directions to try and somehow negate Ayers. He's a terrorist.
Prebe: I've seen footage of terrorists getting themselves blown up by the coalition forces in Iraq. I cheered every one of them. I grant that innocent civilians also got themselves caught up in the crossfire but when you're dealing with scum who uses women and children as human shields, it's an indictment on them - not the forces.
Prebe: I've seen footage of terrorists getting themselves blown up by the coalition forces in Iraq. I cheered every one of them. I grant that innocent civilians also got themselves caught up in the crossfire but when you're dealing with scum who uses women and children as human shields, it's an indictment on them - not the forces.
-
Prebe
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 7926
- Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:19 pm
- Location: People's Republic of Denmark
I don't care about your viewpoint really. Whatever you may think of the necessity and/or the extent of the collateral damage is immaterial; the pictures - with all the anguish, sorrow and graphical gore they contain, will be the same on both sides. And please notice that even a communist pig who hates the US freedom - such as yours truly - does not post/link to such images.
Last edited by Prebe on Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I would have gone to the thesaurus for a more erudite word."
-Hashi Lebwohl
-Hashi Lebwohl
-
finn
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 4349
- Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:03 am
- Location: Maintaining an unsociable distance....
Dead right Vain, but the pot really is calling the kettle black isn't it since the greatest supporter, sponsor and perpetrator of terroism both recently and over the past 50 years, is the US Government.
Don't bleat about terrorists until you look squarely and honestly at the problem, the causes and the who it is who underwrites it. By your definitions, you are the terrorist!
Don't bleat about terrorists until you look squarely and honestly at the problem, the causes and the who it is who underwrites it. By your definitions, you are the terrorist!
"Winston, if you were my husband I'd give you poison" ................ "Madam, if you were my wife I would drink it!"
"Terrorism is war by the poor, and war is terrorism by the rich"
"A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well."
"The opposite of pro-life isn't pro-death. Y'know?"
"What if the Hokey Cokey really is what its all about?"
"Terrorism is war by the poor, and war is terrorism by the rich"
"A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well."
"The opposite of pro-life isn't pro-death. Y'know?"
"What if the Hokey Cokey really is what its all about?"
-
Avatar
- Immanentizing The Eschaton
- Posts: 61791
- Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:17 am
- Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
- Has thanked: 15 times
- Been thanked: 22 times
It's become an extremely loaded word these days. But I don't believe anything occurs in a vacuum. Nor do I believe that blowing people up, even terrorists, is the way to prevent future terrorism. Quite the opposite in fact. We seem to think that the atrocities that are committed against us justify the atrocities we commit against others. When in fact, all they do is fuel the next round of atrocities.
Let's have a little less of the cheering for the death of others thanks.
--A
Let's have a little less of the cheering for the death of others thanks.
--A
-
finn
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 4349
- Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:03 am
- Location: Maintaining an unsociable distance....
Courage is a rare commodity and almost non existent in the political arena!
With all the hoo-ha about the with the US election, it seems to have gone unnoticed that the three Bali bombers are about (within the next day or two it seems ) to be executed. For those who are unaware these three destroyed a tourist hotel in Bali filled with Australian holidaymakers some 200 died and many more were left with horrific injuries.
Its sort of eerie, Australia as a nation is against the death penalty by a very big majority, but there is a thirst in the media for blood and revenge and a rabid glee about the executions of these people. Its strange that whilst many oppose the sentence on principle, it is feeding a need for revenge to the extent that those same people will remain silent, almost as if their vote against has become an abstention.
I applied this to myself and found that whilst I am basically against the death penalty, I cannot find it in me to object on this occasion, with these people having confessed and boasted about their deeds, frankly the planet is better off without them.
With all the hoo-ha about the with the US election, it seems to have gone unnoticed that the three Bali bombers are about (within the next day or two it seems ) to be executed. For those who are unaware these three destroyed a tourist hotel in Bali filled with Australian holidaymakers some 200 died and many more were left with horrific injuries.
Its sort of eerie, Australia as a nation is against the death penalty by a very big majority, but there is a thirst in the media for blood and revenge and a rabid glee about the executions of these people. Its strange that whilst many oppose the sentence on principle, it is feeding a need for revenge to the extent that those same people will remain silent, almost as if their vote against has become an abstention.
I applied this to myself and found that whilst I am basically against the death penalty, I cannot find it in me to object on this occasion, with these people having confessed and boasted about their deeds, frankly the planet is better off without them.
"Winston, if you were my husband I'd give you poison" ................ "Madam, if you were my wife I would drink it!"
"Terrorism is war by the poor, and war is terrorism by the rich"
"A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well."
"The opposite of pro-life isn't pro-death. Y'know?"
"What if the Hokey Cokey really is what its all about?"
"Terrorism is war by the poor, and war is terrorism by the rich"
"A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well."
"The opposite of pro-life isn't pro-death. Y'know?"
"What if the Hokey Cokey really is what its all about?"
-
Zarathustra
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 19644
- Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:23 am
- Been thanked: 1 time
I don't see why it's so difficult to tell the difference between people who intentionally blow up innocent people, and governments who accidentally kill by-standers when they are fighting a war against the former group or against mass-murdering dictators who use poison gas on men, women, and children.
Collateral damage sucks. It sucks really, really bad. And yes, I know you can avoid it by not going to war at all. But it's pure naivete to think that terrorism will stop if we withdraw all our troops around the world and beg everyone to be nice to us.
I recognize the worth in Avatar's words, for instance, about escalating violence and perpetuating a cycle of revenge. Unfortunately, wars are ended in only two ways: victory, or defeat. Depending on which side you're on. But the terrorists don't want us to surrender. They want to obliterate us, and Israel. They seek an Islamic world. They have stated this as their goal. Now, it's not a very realistic goal. But it's also not a goal that is in any way advanced by us retreating; they don't want us to retreat--they want us to die. This has nothing to do with a cycle of revenge. This is a game of survival.
Are we supposed to just withdraw from the world, and accept the occasional terrorist attack against ourselves and our allies? Are we supposed to rely upon vigilance alone, and just cross our fingers that they will honor our restraint?
It's easy to criticize our war on terror. It's easy to criticize any war. But those who criticize haven't come up with a workable alternative.
Collateral damage sucks. It sucks really, really bad. And yes, I know you can avoid it by not going to war at all. But it's pure naivete to think that terrorism will stop if we withdraw all our troops around the world and beg everyone to be nice to us.
I recognize the worth in Avatar's words, for instance, about escalating violence and perpetuating a cycle of revenge. Unfortunately, wars are ended in only two ways: victory, or defeat. Depending on which side you're on. But the terrorists don't want us to surrender. They want to obliterate us, and Israel. They seek an Islamic world. They have stated this as their goal. Now, it's not a very realistic goal. But it's also not a goal that is in any way advanced by us retreating; they don't want us to retreat--they want us to die. This has nothing to do with a cycle of revenge. This is a game of survival.
Are we supposed to just withdraw from the world, and accept the occasional terrorist attack against ourselves and our allies? Are we supposed to rely upon vigilance alone, and just cross our fingers that they will honor our restraint?
It's easy to criticize our war on terror. It's easy to criticize any war. But those who criticize haven't come up with a workable alternative.
Joe Biden … putting the Dem in dementia since (at least) 2020.
-
Prebe
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 7926
- Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:19 pm
- Location: People's Republic of Denmark
I can easily tell the difference. That's not the point. My point was that posting pictures of casualties from either side is pointless.Malik wrote:I don't see why it's so difficult to tell the difference between people who intentionally blow up innocent people, and governments who accidentally kill by-standers when they are fighting a war against the former group or against mass-murdering dictators who use poison gas on men, women, and children.
"I would have gone to the thesaurus for a more erudite word."
-Hashi Lebwohl
-Hashi Lebwohl