Obama's Cabinet

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Post by Rawedge Rim »

Malik23 wrote:Cail, imagine if the government decided roads are a thing of the past, and hover cars are the way of the future. So they tear up all the roads, even though your car works just fine. Now you can't drive.

Ok, maybe not a good analogy. But government action is rendering obsolete TVs already purchased. And they're not using our tax dollars to pay for this. I don't see the problem.
actually something like that happened, they went from horse and buggy to motor vehicles, and over time told people who only wanted to deal with draft animals and wagons that they were SOL.

Frankly it's really a non-issue, every television, from the $69 P.O.S. to the Sony XBR8, sold after 2007 is required to have a digital tuner inside, or no tuner at all, no exceptions.

With the "FREE" $40 coupons, the cost of a converter box, at Sears, is $13.49 each.

I'm with (I think it was Cail)....are you telling me that in the course of 2 years that someone was unable to save up $13.49????? If this is so, then these people got a lot more to worry about that not being able to watch American Idol and the Maury Show.
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blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/01/bumps-in-the-ro.html
Bumps in the Road: Obama's HHS Secretary Nominee Faces Tax Questions Over Car and Driver
January 30, 2009 6:29 PM

ABC News has learned that the nomination of former Senator Majority Leader Tom Daschle, D-S.D., to be President Obama's secretary of health and human services has hit a traffic snarl on its way through the Senate Finance Committee.

The controversy deals with a car and driver lent to Daschle by a wealthy Democratic friend -- a chauffeur service the former senator used for years without declaring it on his taxes.

It remains an open question as to whether this is a "speed bump," as a Democratic Senate ally of Daschle put it, or something more damaging.

After being defeated in his 2004 re-election campaign to the Senate, Daschle in 2005 became a consultant and chairman of the executive advisory board at InterMedia Advisors.

Based in New York City, InterMedia Advisors is a private equity firm founded in part by longtime Daschle friend and Democratic fundraiser Leo Hindery, the former president of the YES network (the New York Yankees' and New Jersey Devils' cable television channel).

That same year he began his professional relationship with InterMedia, Daschle began using the services of Hindery's car and driver.

The Cadillac and driver were never part of Daschle's official compensation package at InterMedia, but Mr. Daschle -- who as Senate majority leader enjoyed the use of a car and driver at taxpayer expense -- didn't declare their services on his income taxes, as tax laws require.

During the vetting process to become HHS secretary, Daschle corrected the tax violation, voluntarily paying $101,943 in back taxes plus interest, working with his accountant to amend his tax returns for 2005 through 2007.

(Daschle reimbursed the IRS $31,462 in taxes and interest for tax year 2005; $35,546 for 2006; and $34,935 for 2007, a Daschle spokesperson said, adding that Daschle had asked his accountant to look into the tax implications of the car and driver five months before Obama won the presidency.)

The Daschle spokesperson told ABC News that the senator, facing questions from the committee, has said "he deeply regretted his mistake. When he realized it was a mistake he corrected it rapidly."

The chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., has called his colleagues for a private meeting at 5 p.m. ET Monday to discuss these complications surrounding Daschle's nomination.

In the meantime, the White House and Democratic allies are coming to Daschle's defense.

"The president has confidence that Sen. Daschle is the right person to lead the fight for health care reform," White House deputy press secretary Bill Burton said. "In preparation for his nomination, Sen. Daschle and his accountant identified some tax issues and fixed them. They filed amended return with the IRS and made payments with interest. Sen. Daschle brought these issues to the Finance Committee’s attention when he submitted his nomination forms and we are confident the committee is going to schedule a hearing for him very soon and he will be confirmed."

Jim Manley, a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., added: "Sen. Daschle will be confirmed as secretary of health and human services. He has a long and distinguished career and record in public service and is the best person to help reform health care in this country."

But House Republicans attending a retreat in Hot Springs, Va. also were buzzing about the news of Daschle's tax problems.

In a speech to his fellow Republican House members, Rep. Eric Cantor, R-Va., compared Daschle's issue with the tax problems that hindered the confirmation of Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and those of Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., who is embroiled in a controversy over payment of taxes on a beachfront villa in the Dominican Republic.

"A pattern is developing," Cantor said. "The pattern is solidified. ... It's easy for the other side to sit here and advocate higher taxes because -- you know what? -- they don't pay them."

This is the second Cabinet nominee of President Obama's to face questions of tax malfeasance. Geithner paid more than $34,000 in taxes during his vetting process for income earned at the International Monetary Fund. Earlier, Commerce secretary nominee Bill Richardson withdrew his name from consideration after reports of a federal investigation involving whether his office engaged in "pay to play," a charge Richardson denied.

The spokesperson said, by way of explaining how it was this happened: "In 2005, Sen. Daschle's close friend Leo Hindery, who lives in New York, offered him the use of a car and driver in Washington when he was not using it. That same year, they began a formal business relationship where he was an independent consultant and chairman of the external advisory board to InterMedia Advisors. The car was not provided as part of his compensation. So it never occurred to him that it should be considered income. The senator simply and probably naively considered its use a generous offer by a longtime friend."

Hindery did not have any comment. Daschle has personally refrained from commenting.

Daschle came before the Senate Health Education Labor and Pensions Committee for a hearing on Jan. 8, 2009, and it was a veritable love-in, with the respected former colleague praised to the high heavens.

But staffers at the Senate Finance Committee are generally a little more exacting -- witness the stormy weather faced by Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner for his back-tax snafus -- and they have been delving into the issue and exploring all the ramifications before holding a committee vote on his nomination.

The Daschle spokesperson insisted that the former senator is the one who should get credit for discovering, fixing and disclosing the tax issue.

"In June 2008, Sen. Daschle mentioned the use of the car to his personal accountant and asked him if there were any potential tax consequences," the spokesperson said. "His accountant said that there could be tax consequences and said he was going to fix them as part of Daschle's 2008 filing. So when he got down to vetting, Sen. Daschle decided to amend his returns for 2005, 2006 and 2007, and he paid all the taxes. At the urging of Daschle, the accountant was very conservative in his estimates."

Regardless of how the information came to light, a spokeswoman for Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, the ranking Republican on the Senate Finance Committee, said the public should be aware.

"Sen. Grassley’s position for this nomination is the same as it has been for every other nomination processed by the Finance Committee since 2001, that all relevant information about a nominee must be made public in order for the confirmation process to go forward in the committee," the spokeswoman said. "The public’s business ought to be public, and committee members must weigh all the facts of a nominee’s record."

Daschle has long been one of President Obama's closest advisers, so it was no surprise when the mild-mannered pol was named Obama's nominee to be HHS secretary shortly after Obama won election; his official nomination came Dec. 11, 2008.

Should Daschle have difficulty being confirmed -- a prospect that seems unlikely given the benefit of the doubt senators frequently extend to one another, not to mention the Senate's Democratic majority -- he doesn't have to worry about finding another job in the administration, since President Obama has also appointed him to serve as director of the new White House Office on Health Reform.

-- Jake Tapper, with reporting by ABC News' Jonathan Karl

Looks like President Obama is gonna have to dig a bit deeper to find a clean cabinent member. :biggrin: 8O
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Post by Cail »

Syl, there aren't any good examples upthread, which is why I asked you. Please explain how it is any anyone's best interests for the government to subsidize converter boxes. This isn't fluoridated water, it's freakin' television.
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Cail wrote:The TVs aren't broken, they work just fine. They've changed the method of broadcasting, and they've given ample warning.

Should the government have bought everyone new cars when leaded gas was outlawed?

Should the government pay me to buy a new car since they've mandated safety equipment that makes cars more expensive?
the tv doesn't work, all you get is static. you can't call a tv that can't get a signal not broken. oh wait, you can. :roll:

if you had to pay $60-$150 or more to make your tv's functional because of the govt., wouldn't that be a tax? are you in favor of raising taxes to watch tv?
EPA Takes Final Step in Phaseout of Leaded Gasoline
[EPA press release - :arrow: January 29, 1996]


EPA Administrator Carol M. Browner today took the last steps concluding a :arrow: 25-year Agency effort to phase out lead from gasoline.

Browner signed a final rulemaking to eliminate requirements which became obsolete or unnecessary as a result of the ban, including certain recordkeeping and reporting requirements for gasoline refiners and importers. Also, motor vehicle manufacturers will no longer be required to place "unleaded fuel only" labels on the dashboard and on or around the fuel filler inlet area of each new motor vehicle. Deleting these provisions will decrease compliance costs for industry.

"The elimination of lead from gas is one of the great environmental achievements of all time," Browner said. "Thousands of tons of lead have been removed from the air, and blood levels of lead in our children are down 70 percent. This means that millions of children will be spared the painful consequences of lead poisoning, such as permanent nerve damage, anemia or mental retardation." The actions taken today, although procedural, mark the end of a quarter-of-a-century of work to keep Americans safe from exposure to lead from gas.

Adverse health effects from elevated levels of lead in blood range from behavior disorders and anemia to mental retardation and permanent nerve damage. Fetuses and children are especially susceptible to low doses of lead, often suffering central nervous system damage or slowed growth.

Lead has been blended with gasoline, primarily to boost octane levels, since the early 1920s. EPA began working to reduce lead emissions soon after its inception, issuing the first reduction standards in 1973, which called for a gradual phasedown of lead to one tenth of a gram per gallon by 1986. The average lead content in gasoline in 1973 was 2-3 grams per gallon or about 200,000 tons of lead a year. In 1975, passenger cars and light trucks were manufactured with a more elaborate emission control system which included a catalytic converter that required lead-free fuel. In 1995 leaded fuel accounted for only 0.6 percent of total gasoline sales and less than 2,000 tons of lead per year. Effective January 1, 1996, the Clean Air Act banned the sale of the small amount of leaded fuel that was still available in some parts of the country for use in on-road vehicles. EPA said fuel containing lead may continue to be sold for off-road uses, including aircraft, racing cars, farm equipment, and marine engines.

In addition to increasing the octane of gasoline, leaded gasoline also protected exhaust valve seats (in vehicles designed to operate on leaded gasoline) from excessive wear. Both of these objectives are now accomplished without the use of leaded gasoline. Owners of older vehicles with engines designed for leaded fuel may use an unleaded gasoline of comparable octane. For vehicles operating under higher loads, a lead substitute additive may be used, but owners should check with vehicle manufacturers as to which lead substitute additives are appropriate.
note that the refiners were adding the lead to the gas.
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Post by Cail »

Funny, but I'm currently watching a DVD on my TV. No tuner required. Sound broken to you?

I guess the government should just pay us for every inconvenient technological advance, eh?

Edit- And in no way, shape, or form does upgrading obsolete entertainment equipment constitute a tax.
Last edited by Cail on Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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Post by Cagliostro »

Maybe they are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.
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Post by Cail »

Cagliostro wrote:Maybe they are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.
:D
I doubt it, but that's essentially what's happening. My point is that it's not up to the government to do anything for people who have obsolete equipment.

If this were a public health issue (like fluoridated water), then that'd be a whole different story.

But it's TV. You don't have the right to watch free TV, and it's not in anyone's best interests.
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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Cail wrote:Funny, but I'm currently watching a DVD on my TV. No tuner required. Sound broken to you?

I guess the government should just pay us for every inconvenient technological advance, eh?

Edit- And in no way, shape, or form does upgrading obsolete entertainment equipment constitute a tax.
so now I have to go out and buy a dvd player? and then buy dvd's? and yes it is a tax, in every way shape and form. having to pay for a govt initiative is and always has been a tax.
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Post by Cail »

You don't have to pay. Watching television is voluntary.
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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Post by Rawedge Rim »

Esmer wrote:
Cail wrote:Funny, but I'm currently watching a DVD on my TV. No tuner required. Sound broken to you?

I guess the government should just pay us for every inconvenient technological advance, eh?

Edit- And in no way, shape, or form does upgrading obsolete entertainment equipment constitute a tax.
so now I have to go out and buy a dvd player? and then buy dvd's? and yes it is a tax, in every way shape and form. having to pay for a govt initiative is and always has been a tax.
No, you don't. In fact you don't have to watch TV. Also in fact there may be public health benefits from not having a TV to watch. Lack thereof might cause people to get up off thier fat asses and interact with each other instead of vegetating in front of the idiot box.

Be that as it may, they've been annoucing the switch to digital for years now, and everyone has had opportunity to either purchase a TV with a built in digital tuner, or a converter box, or sign on to a pay service such as cable or satalite.

And please don't tell me about the poor person who can't seem to scrounge up the $13.49 for a converter box, heck my late grandmother who lived exclusively on Social Security (and damned little of that) could scrape more than that up, heck she gave more than that as a tithe to the church on Sunday.
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Is it just me, or are we splitting off here? That $13.49 is after the coupon, the necessity, or at least desirability of which we're debating. Yes, $13.49 is a reasonable amount to expect even little old ladies on fixed incomes to come up with. A bit different than $53.49.

Not that fifty bucks is unreasonable. But I think it's really a matter of how faithfully the govt. is acting in its role as steward. Is the move to the new standard in the public's best interest? If it improves existing service and opens up the available bandwidth (making things like white space broadband), then sure. Are there drawbacks? Well, yeah, a lot of people will have to buy new sets or converter boxes (or shell out for the robbery that is cable and satellite programming). Can you minimize the impact? Sure, give the have-nots, those already facing a rapidly increasing technological divide, some help (including the granny on the fixed income who paid taxes all her life to help support the FCC and its governance of the radio spectrum and who's probably still watching the news on her made in the USA Zenith). But that's welfare, you say. OK, we'll give everyone the same thing.

And yes, a populace with access to basic radio communication is a good thing. For one, it keeps people informed (I had typed educated, but couldn't keep it with good conscience). If you think the average voter is uninformed now, imagine how much worse it would be if millions of Americans who rely on broadcast news no longer had it it. It's bad enough with the riffraff at the library waiting to use the internet (god forbid the people waiting open a book rather than their mouths, but I digress). Broadcast also keeps people organized, what with all the emergency weather info (never thought much of this living in NV, but it's a whole different story in NC, much less KS or MO). And most importantly, it keeps people shopping. Businesses need to advertise to poor people, too.
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Post by aliantha »

Syl wrote:And most importantly, it keeps people shopping. Businesses need to advertise to poor people, too.
And that, my friends, is the *real* reason for the vouchers. :lol:

I now recall that there was some discussion when the voucher program first began about the two-per-household limit. The problem is with people in group homes, such as in-the-community homes for the disabled and/or mentally ill. Because they all live at the same address, under one reading of the law, they could be considered a "household" -- leaving perhaps ten or 15 people of limited understanding having to draw straws to see which two would get to keep their TVs running. I believe somebody figured out a way around the problem. But this is one good example of where the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps and go buy yourself a new TV" admonishments don't fly.
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Post by Vain »

Where are the converter boxes manufactured? China/ If so, isn't this really just subsidising and growing the economy of someone else?
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Post by Cybrweez »

Wow, I can't believe so many are trying to make the case govt should subsidize TV. Read that sentence again. Someone upthread mentioned its in govt's interest to have the population watch TV. That's true. As linked in the thread (Gatto) about No Child Left Behind, there are some who think its helps people be dependent on certain things, like what the TV tells us, especially for the lower classes. Opium for the masses.

There are plenty of cases where govt has enforced strictly, more costly measures, and not subsidized it. Just think of environ mandates, govt pay corporations to pollute less? Cail mentioned cars, govt pay to keep cars same price b4 safety requirements? How about car insurance, in NJ its mandatory, do I get any tax break for it? The govt forces me to own it in order to drive, yet doesn't give me a dime (or at least take less of my dimes).

Wow, just amazing this much belief in govt subsidizing TV. TV!!!!!
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Post by Avatar »

I think the government will subsidise it, for reasons mentioned above, although whether it should or not...I dunno...I wonder if ours will do the same?

And of course, it raises the question of who gets subsidised.

But if the conversion is as a result of government action, (like decreeing that broadcasting will henceforth be digital), then maybe they should bear some of it.

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Post by Zarathustra »

Cybrweez wrote:Wow, I can't believe so many are trying to make the case govt should subsidize TV.
Privates businesses are buying up the freed-up spectrum. That money is being used to upgrade current TVs. I don't really look at it as the government subsidizing TV. The airwaves are a public resource. We are being compensated by the government for selling off public resources to private companies. I think people would be pissed if the government were profiting off our public resources and not giving us a kick-back . . . an in fact doing just the opposite by rendering our privately purchased electronics obsolete.

You guys know me, I'm as conservative as they come. But I have to side with the liberals on this one.
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Post by Plissken »

Malik23 wrote:
Cybrweez wrote:Wow, I can't believe so many are trying to make the case govt should subsidize TV.
Privates businesses are buying up the freed-up spectrum. That money is being used to upgrade current TVs. I don't really look at it as the government subsidizing TV. The airwaves are a public resource. We are being compensated by the government for selling off public resources to private companies. I think people would be pissed if the government were profiting off our public resources and not giving us a kick-back . . . an in fact doing just the opposite by rendering our privately purchased electronics obsolete.

You guys know me, I'm as conservative as they come. But I have to side with the liberals on this one.
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Post by Cybrweez »

Sorry, I wasn't speaking about providing the coupons, or giving more money towards more boxes. I was speaking towards the ones that are actually arguing that TV is important, and should be provided for all.

If the point is the govt made money off of something, and is just returning some of it to public, that's one thing. But to say the govt should pay for people to receive digital b/c TV is important, that's another.
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Post by The Laughing Man »

what about the funding the govt provides for programming? are you against that?
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Post by Rawedge Rim »

Esmer wrote:what about the funding the govt provides for programming? are you against that?
I like PBS....having said that, my answer is YES, I am against it.
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