Watchmen

[matrixman]

Nice guy that I am, instead of cluttering up the general Graphic Novels topic with further Watchmen ramblings, I've made this thread solely dedicated to discussing this magnificent work.

jwaneeta began our "current" discussion of Watchmen here: kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=402928#402928

Now, to follow jwaneeta's lead, let me post some thoughts on pages 9-13 of Watchmen:

After the morbid and violent opening pages featuring the sinister appearance of the masked stranger, we now cut to a gentler scene of two friends chatting. The elder one, Hollis Mason, is reminiscing about the good ol' days of costumed crimefighting, when all you needed to take down the bad guy was a good left hook. It implies some "golden age" when both heroes and villains were more easily defined. I take this to be Alan Moore's little homage to the bygone era of superhero comics of the '40s and '50s. But it's also a parody of that "innocent" age. The kind of outlook on the world represented by Hollis Mason's generation may be admirable, but also hopelessly simple-minded.

The younger man, Daniel Dreiberg, is Mason's protege. But it would appear that the whole costumed hero business is a part of Daniel's life that is over, and he is now a comfortably (comfortably numb?) middle-aged man. On his return home, he sees his lock has been busted...by none other than Rorschach, who has been waiting inside. He's here to tell Dreiberg that one of their own former costumed colleagues, the Comedian, has been murdered - the same man who plummeted to his death in the opening pages, one Edward Blake.

We see by such a callous intrusion into Dreiberg's home that Rorschach is a ruthless type who does things his own way. However, the fact that he has made the effort to warn Dreiberg about the possiblity of a killer out there bumping off "masks" shows that Rorschach does operate by some code of honour. He may be disappointed that Dreiberg "quit" crimefighting, but Dreiberg is still a fellow mask.

From their conversation we learn that this mysterious Comedian wasn't just your average neighborhood crimebuster: he had risen high in the US Government to become some sort of top foreign operative, "knocking over Marxist republics in South America." The Comedian was someone who had somehow gained access to the corridors of power in Washington, while "masks" like Rorschach and Daniel Dreiberg (aka "Nite Owl") were rendered personae non gratae by the Keene Act of '77, about which we learn more later.

It's apparent that Rorschach and Dreiberg aren't on the same wavelength. Dreiberg's reaction to Blake's death is that of detached concern, whereas Rorschach seems dogged in his intent to find out who killed him - to the point of even naming Dreiberg's mentor Hollis Mason as a possible suspect. (Apparently Mason in his memoirs had said some uncomplimentary things about the Comedian.) Dreiberg is not at all amused, but Rorschach lets the matter drop and leaves his former crimefighting partner for the night. It seems sides are already being drawn: are you with Dreiberg or Rorschach?

The final large panel drawing on p.13 sees a tired, slouched-over Daniel Dreiberg sitting alone with his thoughts. Beside him, we see his own Nite Owl costume, now hanging derelict in a locker. The scene is like an unglamorous version of Batman: not the Gothic romanticism of a Bat cave here, but a mundane basement "workshop" with walls in need of repair. Not a charismatic and influential millionare figure like Bruce Wayne here, but rather an ordinary and maybe slightly overweight man who has seen his life's dream of being a costumed hero apparently slip away.

[jwaneeta]

On page 14, we cut to Rorschach perched on a rooftop as the sun sets. Exerpts from his diary, in tattered blocks like torn pages, serve as his voiceover.

He's slept all day -- a nocturnal being, the better to explore the seamy underbelly, of course. He notes that he's got an ongoing beef with his landlady: and to Rorschach all of New York City is just like the landlady and her gaggle of ill-kempt, neglected bastards:

Beneath me, this awful city, it screams like an abatoir full of retarded children.

He's not defending Right and Justice from the fullness of his tender heart, in case the reader was still wondering. He does it from wrath and a bottomless well of contempt.

As Rorschach goes on patrol he mulls over his obsessions severally. He's profoundly disturbed by sexual license in any form (one of the things that squicked me about Watchmen was the way homosexuality was used as a visual symbol of the general decay and depravity of the times). Litter and graffitti really bug him, too -- which is odd scince Rorschach doesn't seem to be meticulously devoted to hygiene himself. But of course his big trigger is crime; high, low, it doesn't matter. Any sort of lawlessness sends Rorschach into an icy, lethal rage, and he gets positive pleasure roughing up local toughs for information. He calls it "exercize."

It's regular exercize, too: he's well known at the local dives and inspires fear in the patrons. He breaks a few fingers at one to little avail -- the trip is fruitless except for the satisfaction it provides Rorschach so he moves on, and the scene shifts to the office of ex-Minuteman Veidt.

Veidt's an interesting guy. He was a superhero too, but he managed to ride the market collapse and continues to live in style, overseeing a vast marketing empire of action figures and kitsch.

Rorschach's manner with Veidt is far from friendly, but as we haven't been set up to trust Rorschach at this point, his wariness doesn't exactly prejudice the reader. Yes, Veidt's rich and therefore probably ethically suspect, but he's a sight more palatable than Rorschach. He almost sounds reasonable. Confused and baffled, much like the reader at this stage of the story. One of the most impressive tricks of Watchmen is this initial confusion of sympathies, at an early stage when the reader is still seeking a POV character.

It's clear from the trappings of the office that Veidt has a thing for Egyptian trappings: paperweights and porticos, and the absurd action figures scattered over his desk. He's also well-insulated from the squalor of the dying city, which he views from the lofty eminence only the super rich enjoy. He clasps his hands and stares out at the rain falling, while Rorschach goes right back out in it.

Rorschach squleches west, and his narrative continues as he approaches a sercure military base. We get the names of additional dead -- superheros who fell to the sword, disgrace, insanity. None of it quite prepares us for the next superhero we meet, however. On page 20 Rorschach enters a lab and confronts a nude blueskinned giant thirty feet tall: Dr. Manhattan.

Dr. Manhattan was a hero once: no longer. He was human once: not anymore.

A live body and a dead body contain the same number of particles.

Structurally there's no difference.

Whoever this guy was, he's utterly lost the ability to connect on any human level whatsoever: his perspective is eternal, galactic, timeless. If Rorschach hoped to warn this guy, he's wasted his time. Dr. Manhattan is omnipotent and indestructible, and he simply can't care.

But fortunately for Rorschach, Dr. Manhattan still has a girlfriend.

[dANdeLION]

Hey, are the page breakdowns in the graphic novel the same as the 12 issue comic series? Because I'm sort of a purist (I.E. snob); I only get the novels when that's the only way the story comes out.


Well, I did get the Serenity novel AND all nine comics (for the covers) because I'm a true fan, but that's besides the point.

[jwaneeta]

Hey, are the page breakdowns in the graphic novel the same as the 12 issue comic series? Because I'm sort of a purist (I.E. snob); I only get the novels when that's the only way the story comes out.

The edition I have in hand is numbered according to chapters/issues. Chapter one runs: p.1, p.2, p.3... and then starts over again in chapter two.

If I have to figure out how they'd be numbered as a single mass, I'll really be at sea.

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

I'm third of the way through...it's just...how can words describe how good this is...and what it must have been like to read for the first time in '86? I've never been sucked in by a comic in the way great books pulll you into that world, unaware of time passing in your own reality...just F'ing brilliant...

[matrixman]

I'm third of the way through...it's just...how can words describe how good this is...and what it must have been like to read for the first time in '86? I've never been sucked in by a comic in the way great books pulll you into that world, unaware of time passing in your own reality...just F'ing brilliant...

Glad you're enjoying it!

...sigh...This dissection was another good thing that got stalled. Wonder if jwaneeta is around - I can't do this all by myself. But since I'm rereading the book, I'll marshall my thoughts and try to pick up where we left off.

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

Go for it, man...I'll join you.

[jwaneeta]

I'm third of the way through...it's just...how can words describe how good this is...and what it must have been like to read for the first time in '86? I've never been sucked in by a comic in the way great books pulll you into that world, unaware of time passing in your own reality...just F'ing brilliant...

I read it WAAAAY back in the day, when it was coming out as individual comics issues, in a limited series. It was electrifying. I worked in comics, and me and all my comics-working fellows would go to the LCD together, and then read our copies, and just talk about it for hours.

We did that for only one other arc, in those days: Love and Rockets by Los Bros Hernandez.

heh. Heady times, bro. Heady times.

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

I'm third of the way through...it's just...how can words describe how good this is...and what it must have been like to read for the first time in '86? I've never been sucked in by a comic in the way great books pulll you into that world, unaware of time passing in your own reality...just F'ing brilliant...

I read it WAAAAY back in the day, when it was coming out as individual comics issues, in a limited series. It was electrifying. I worked in comics, and me and all my comics-working fellows would go to the LCD together, and then read our copies, and just talk about it for hours.

We did that for only one other arc, in those days: Love and Rockets by Los Bros Hernandez.

heh. Heady times, bro. Heady times.

I'm 2/3 through now...man do I have some questions...but gimme two more days...

...and nice to meet you (now let me have your body- I'm only gonna use it to help destroy the Land).

[Fist and Faith]

(now let me have your body- I'm only gonna use it to help destroy the Land).

You've seen her beach pictures?


No way I'm doing a Dissection. Heh. But I'll likely comment here and there. Strange that I don't remember seeing this thread before.

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

(now let me have your body- I'm only gonna use it to help destroy the Land).

You've seen her beach pictures?

No...does she have any?

Edit: I like your artwork Jwan...very nice...

Edit: I just finished it. Here's to Ozy...

[dANdeLION]

There's one floating about on this site somewhere. Jwan's a pretty lady. Add to that her personality and talent, and, well, she's downright amazing.

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

There's one floating about on this site somewhere. Jwan's a pretty lady. Add to that her personality and talent, and, well, she's downright amazing.

I think I saw her in a pic from FBH...blonde, glasses, thin nose, nice smile...pretty...seems observent...that her?

[JazFusion]

Saturday Morning Watchmen!

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

That is terrifying...

[wayfriend]

Real life Minutemen?

CINCINNATI -- Cincinnati police have a new ally in their fight against crime, whether they want it or not.

He calls himself Shadowhare, and he wears a mask and a cape to conceal his true identity. He's Cincinnati's own version of a superhero fighting crime and injustice where he finds it.

"We help enforce the law by doing what we can in legal standards, so we carry handcuffs, pepper spray … all the legal weapons," said Shadowhare. "We will do citizen's arrests. We will intervene on crimes if there is one happening in front of us."

The man behind Shadowhare's mask is 21 years old and from Milford. Those are the only clues to his true identity that he will reveal. Shadowhare said he was abused as a child and grew up in foster homes, perhaps leading him to a life helping others.

"My message to Cincinnati is that there is still hope and all we have to do is stand together," he said.

Shadowhare is not alone in his quest to fight crime. He heads up a group of men -- and one woman -- called the "Allegiance of Heroes." The members communicate with each other in online forums. Among the members are Aclyptico in Pennsylvania, Wall Creeper in Colorado and Master Legend in Florida.

"I've even teamed up with Mr. Extreme in California -- San Diego -- and we were trying to track down a rapist," said Shadowhare.

The crime fighters will often pair up to patrol the streets. Even so, fighting crime comes with its share of hardship.

Shadowhare said he suffered a dislocated shoulder two years ago while trying to help a woman who was being attacked.

And the authorities don't always take him seriously. In one encounter with a Hamilton County corrections officer, Shadowhare was greeted with a chuckle and a look of disbelief.

But Shadowhare said he and his team are not deterred by the criticism. He remains focused on trying to make Cincinnati a better place, whether it's fighting crime or feeding the homeless.

For now, the law is on Shadowhare's side.

It is legal in Ohio and Kentucky to make a citizens arrest, however, the arrester does face possible civil litigation if the person arrested turns out to be innocent.

[Lord Mhoram]

I always thought the citizen's arrest was a myth!

[wayfriend]

I've just finished my second read thru of Watchmen, after about a year or so. In preparation for seeing the movie a second time.

I found the first three chapters to be more compelling this time through. Nothing specific to point to. Maybe it's because I didn't have any confusions this time with the story launch, understand whom is whom and what is what. And I didn't find the parallelism as tacky. Does that mean I am more forgiving?

On the other hand, the middle pieces seemed more stale. Rorschach's imprisonment and release left me cold. He's not as exciting a figure for me the second time through. The world has a lot of uncompromising tough guys. In the end, it was his achille's heel; he was incapable of surviving in the new world era.

The final pieces were a bit better the second time through. Veidt was more compelling. The evil plot seemed a lot more evil. This time, as I read, I paid close attention to the Island bits. The first time through, they sort of went past me, and then later I went huh? Not my fault, I don't think ... the authors are laying tenuous clues, but with nothing to hook them on, who's going to keep them on their minds?

[Fist and Faith]

I agree with everything.

Except, of course, your foolishness about Rorschach. What kinda commie are you, anyway?!

[sgt.null]

Saturday Morning Watchmen!

i had missed that - it was great! thank you!