Surpassing Sequels

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

I like Alien 3 more than 2 but I'm usually the only one, so I don't mention it much.

[Avatar]

Can't say I've ever thought much about it, but now that you mention it, I might agree.

--A

[dANdeLION]

I Rate the Alien movies in this order:

1. I (my fav by far)
2. II ("Game over" marine was funny as hell, but 'Mad About You" dude even more annoying than on TV show)
3. IV (I'm a sucker for Winona Ryder, what can I say?)
4. III (thought it odd to immediately kill off characters Weaver worked so hard to keep alive in II; can't remember anything else about the movie, to be honest)

[Worm of Despite]

The original I can't watch that much anymore, being a slasher with sci-fi trappings; once I know who's killed it's not much more than an atmosphere/mood piece. Aliens' action, the way its shot, and the sheer volume of ideas and quotes that are now standard reward me constantly (you'd be amazed how many video games, including StarCraft, use the whole "space marine squad" idea), and 3 is Ripley being bald with a subpar story, unappealing visuals, and all the last film's characters (including Michael Biehn) killed off. Epic fail.

[Cail]

Roger Ebert described Alien3 as "the best looking bad movie ever made".

I concur.

[Loredoctor]

The original I can't watch that much anymore, being a slasher with sci-fi trappings; once I know who's killed it's not much more than an atmosphere/mood piece. Aliens' action, the way its shot, and the sheer volume of ideas and quotes that are now standard reward me constantly (you'd be amazed how many video games, including StarCraft, use the whole "space marine squad" idea), and 3 is Ripley being bald with a subpar story, unappealing visuals, and all the last film's characters (including Michael Biehn) killed off. Epic fail.

Aliens is better than Alien. Alien IV is awful.

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

I kind of liked Alien IV...not saying it's a good film, just kind of liked some of it...other parts though (killing off the main guy right away)...wtf? And Wynona, she didn't need to be in this film, she shouldn't have been in the film, anyone could have played that part. Well, the film shouldn't have been made anyway. Kind of like Spiderman4 might turn out.

[Cagliostro]

Also surprised to not see Exorcist III on there.

Amen, brutha. I can't tell which I prefer more these days between the original and III. The pacing of Exorcist III is far superior, but the original just tweaks those little buttons that make me very afraid.

[Cail]

And it's just creepy. And it's got the best jolt I've ever seen in a movie.

[Cagliostro]

And it's just creepy. And it's got the best jolt I've ever seen in a movie.

Lemme guess. The headless statue? Absolutely. It is a brilliant scene, mainly because it just takes its time. And the movie also gave me fanboy love of Brad Dourif.

[Cail]

Yeah, that's the one......It just keeps going, and going, and then......

I need to get that on Blu-Ray.

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

Hrm. Couple thoughts:

- Does RothK count?
- I'm not a fan, but what about A Few Dollars More and Good, Bad and Ugly?
- Does Oldboy count?
- I've heard Drunken Master 2 is better than 1
- While different, I think Dark Knight is a sequel and is better than Batman Begins.
- Does Kill Bill vol.2 count?

[I'm Murrin]

Oldboy's a standalone, and Kill Bill was specifically excluded for being half of a two-parter.

[matrixman]

I Rate the Alien movies in this order:

1. I (my fav by far)
2. II ("Game over" marine was funny as hell, but 'Mad About You" dude even more annoying than on TV show)
3. IV (I'm a sucker for Winona Ryder, what can I say?)
4. III (thought it odd to immediately kill off characters Weaver worked so hard to keep alive in II; can't remember anything else about the movie, to be honest)

That's how I'd rank them, too. I also like Winona Ryder, which may be why I'm hesitant to bash Alien Resurrection too much. (And as I said, I haven't seen the entire film. I might catch the rest of it whenever it comes on late night TV again.)

I also agree with what you and Lord Foul said about Alien 3: killing off Hicks and Newt served nothing except to turn off many fans. I think the franchise sabotaged itself in that one colossally boneheaded move, and has never recovered since.

Sorry, everyone, don't mean to keep beating a dead horse - er, alien.

It was a pleasant surprise to see Bill & Ted's Bogus Journey on the list. That movie thoroughly had me in stitches - in fact I liked it more than the original.

Same could be said for Airplane II. It was every bit as funny as the first, so I'm glad it got some recognition here. I've said it elsewhere, but I think the Airplane films are the two funniest films ever made.

Also nice to see Before Sunset on the list. (I absolutely loved Before Sunrise.)

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

Favs?

1. Alien 3 *** out of ****
2. Alien **** out of ****
3. Aliens *** out of ****
4. Alien R ** out of ****

[Orlion]

I also agree with what you and Lord Foul said about Alien 3: killing off Hicks and Newt served nothing except to turn off many fans. I think the franchise sabotaged itself in that one colossally boneheaded move, and has never recovered since.

I thought that was one of the strong points of the film. Things went wrong, and it was reflected in this action. It also allowed Ripley to develop into a better character, IMHO. She turned into a person that fought against the xenomorph not to save her psuedo-family, but because it was the right thing to do.... or because of revenge, either way, it made her a better character.

And Jacob, RothK wouldn't count for the same reason that Kill Bill Vol. 2 didn't count: it's a essentially part 3 of the LotR "film". But you make a good point on A Few Dollars More...and I happen to be a fan, so that infuriates me! (The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly is a prequel, so it's all right that it's not on the list).
And Dark Knight wasn't on the list??? I'll have to check that out, if it's not, then it should be. It is clearly a sequel, and as Jacob said, it is better than Batman Begins.

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

I understand people's disappointment...and I also agree - it's kind of a pathetic: "oh, there was another face hugger aboard that killed off these other two characters so we can tell this story" - kind of thing. I felt it the first time I saw the film. And I know it's a far slower pace than A2, with a far bleaker outlook. But the pacing, the tension build, while slow in the beginning, IMO, works reallly, really well.

I'll say this, though...I haven't seen it in about nine years...a decade can change the way you view things drastically.

[matrixman]

I suppose one way to look at it is that the message of any Alien film is that people aren't special, that - no matter how heroic - they sooner or later become just so much warm incubating meat for the alien brood. So, what Hicks and Newt went through means nothing.

The feeling I get from Alien 3 is that it takes all the inspiring heroism achieved in Aliens and negates it, spits on it. I will grant that if Aliens had never existed, I might not feel so hostile to Alien 3. But Aliens does exist, so I'll always view Alien 3 as guilty of cinematic crime against its predecessor.

I respond to Alien 3 in maybe the same way that Highlander fans respond to Highlander II.

All this negative talk, for which I'll partly accept blame, should probably go into a "worst sequels" discussion.

[Orlion]

I understand people's disappointment...and I also agree - it's kind of a pathetic: "oh, there was another face hugger aboard that killed off these other two characters so we can tell this story" - kind of thing.

Yeah... that is true... but how else were they going to get the alien? Cameron exploded the world that they "came" from.... so in this sense it's kinda an unnecessary sequel.

And, also, to be fair, there wouldn't be an Alien: Resurrection without Alien 3...

[Orlion]

I suppose one way to look at it is that the message of any Alien film is that people aren't special, that - no matter how heroic - they sooner or later become just so much warm incubating meat for the alien brood. So, what Hicks and Newt went through means nothing.

The feeling I get from Alien 3 is that it takes all the inspiring heroism achieved in Aliens and negates it, spits on it. I will grant that if Aliens had never existed, I might not feel so hostile to Alien 3. But Aliens does exist, so I'll always view Alien 3 as guilty of cinematic crime against its predecessor.

Hmm... I can understand that. I guess it's all in the way you look at it. I view the Alien series as a Lovecraft Lite tale of space horror, so the undermining of humans is expected. As a result, at least some of what you may view as "inspiring heroism" I viewed as Ripley trying to get and preserve the family she lost. I don't think she truly became "noble" until the end of Alien 3.

All this negative talk, for which I'll partly accept blame, should probably go into a "worst sequels" discussion.

I'll accept the other part of the blame, because I do constantly come back to defend Alien 3 and thus lengthen the discussion