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Moderator: Fist and Faith
Malik23 wrote:I don't think existence is entirely physical.
Yes, the only begotten Son is in the Bible. John loves that phrase.wayfriend wrote:(Was Jesus ever quoted as saying, I am the only son of God, in some form? I don't think so. He says God is our father. So we are all sons and daughters of God. Not that Jesus is necessarilly a subject matter expert...)
Indeed. That book has greatly influenced my outlook on spirituality. Not sure if Heinlein would laugh or cry if he knew.Fist and Faith wrote:Thou art God.
That doesn't quite answer the question I asked.Cybrweez wrote:Yes, the only begotten Son is in the Bible. John loves that phrase.wayfriend wrote:(Was Jesus ever quoted as saying, I am the only son of God, in some form? I don't think so. He says God is our father. So we are all sons and daughters of God. Not that Jesus is necessarilly a subject matter expert...)
That's not quite what I tried to say. What I tried to say was: as Jesus said that God is our father, it follows [even though he didn't say it] that we are all sons and daughters of God.Cybrweez wrote:When Jesus says we are all sons and daughters, who is He talking to?
And it might mean that we'll grow up some day and be just like Dad.Cyberweez wrote:Not sure if it follows that if God is our Father, we are gods. It might mean, He's our Father.
Good question.wayfriend wrote:Indeed. That book has greatly influenced my outlook on spirituality. Not sure if Heinlein would laugh or cry if he knew.Fist and Faith wrote:Thou art God.
Heh. Nicely said.wayfriend wrote:And it might mean that we'll grow up some day and be just like Dad.Cyberweez wrote:Not sure if it follows that if God is our Father, we are gods. It might mean, He's our Father.
Semantics?wayfriend wrote:That doesn't quite answer the question I asked.
That doesn't quite answer the question I asked. Who is He talking to?wayfriend wrote:That's not quite what I tried to say. What I tried to say was: as Jesus said that God is our father, it follows [even though he didn't say it] that we are all sons and daughters of God.
Great, and it might mean He's our Dad, and we won't be like Him. This is deep stuff wayfriend.wayfriend wrote:And it might mean that we'll grow up some day and be just like Dad.
No, sir. I asked if Jesus is quoted as saying it. You answered that John used the phrase.Cybrweez wrote:Semantics?wayfriend wrote:That doesn't quite answer the question I asked.
I don't know. That's why I didn't try to answer your question.Cybrweez wrote:That doesn't quite answer the question I asked. Who is He talking to?
True, except John is the one who relayed His quotes. That's the semantics I'm talking about.wayfriend wrote:No, sir. I asked if Jesus is quoted as saying it. You answered that John used the phrase.
Oh, you threw it out there like you were up on the subject, sorry. I was trying to follow up on your claim.wayfriend wrote:I don't know. That's why I didn't try to answer your question.
You didn't say John was "relaying anything". If you assumed I knew, it was a bad assumption. Hence, I didn't see the connection.Cybrweez wrote:True, except John is the one who relayed His quotes. That's the semantics I'm talking about.wayfriend wrote:No, sir. I asked if Jesus is quoted as saying it. You answered that John used the phrase.
I'm not sure how to answer, because I don't take determinism seriously at all. I haven't given it much thought. The physical universe itself isn't deterministic. We know that randomness exists on a fundamental level of the universe for every single particle in existence. This has been scientific fact for nearly a century.wayfriend wrote:Malik23 wrote:I don't think existence is entirely physical.
If that is so, and I ain't saying it ain't, then the question is, would a philosophy of predetermination include or exclude the non-physical aspects of existence? Can the meta-physical plane be bound also by cause and effect, or not?
It seems to me that the existence of non-physical existence (heh) either contradicts predetermination (as it is not subject to cause and effect) or (if subject to cause and effect) it does nothing to move forward the argument of whether or not free will can exist in a predetermined universe.