Meditation

[Worm of Despite]

Does anyone meditate? I've actually never tried it till like 15 minutes ago, when I went out in the forest behind my house and gave it a whirl. Must say it's pretty nice, makes you aware of inner-tensions, clears the head, and when you open your eyes things just look a bit clearer. My grandfather did it when studying Shōrin-ryū/Okinawan form of karate while in Special Forces. Said he felt like he was floating off the ground (or felt the impression) as he got further into it.

'Course, too much meditation can make you lose your original mind, as one Zen master said, but if one is personally drawn to do it (which is a good sign; can't say why I was drawn to try it), and does so in small, healthy increments, I see no trouble.

[[Syl]]

Yeah, since I've embraced the whole Zen Buddhism thing I've gotten into it. I even got a cushion for shikantaza ('just sitting'). Of course, to me it's just staring at a wall for twenty minutes, but... it's more than that, too.

[Zarathustra]

Yes, I've tried it. I went through a stage when I was meditating quite a bit. Then I had a kid, and got out of the routine.

I'd like to get back into it. Consciousness is something I'm very interested in, from both the theoretical and the phenomenological standpoint.

Ram Dass's BE HERE NOW is a good book on the subject. I also enjoyed Timothy Leary's THE PSYCHEDELIC EXPERIENCE.

[Avatar]

I have in the past, but like Syl, it feels a lot more like staring at the wall. Been out of the habit for years now.

--A

[Fist and Faith]

I've always sorta thought it was cool that some people do it. I tried once, going to a Buddhist place where they help you learn how for free. But I stopped after a few times. But it seems I'm not motivated. heh

[Vraith]

I've done it quite a lot, in the past: sitting, walking, and martial arts practice.
Just recently got back into it [try to whenever I'm walking, rarely have time for the sitting, and I'm in a more physical phase of martial work]

[Seven Words]

I train in, and teach, martial arts (Indonesian....Pencak Silat). Meditation is an everyday thing for me. It's part of the training, using it to train yourself to enter altered states of consciousness, as well as drawing upon the various elements and animals at higher levels (approaching instructor rank). I find it's great for calming....as well as introspection... look at what you've done or felt, delve into why...basically, "grokking", if I may be so geeky.

[aliantha]

My study group worked on meditation awhile back. The book we used was "The Fine Arts of Relaxation, Concentration and Meditation" by Joel and Michelle Levey. I thought it was a useful book. There's definitely more to meditation than just staring at a wall. You can also do guided meditation, which is sort of what I've been doing lately in conjunction with the Major Arcana of the Tarot.

[hierachy]

Yeah I've been getting into it. I like it.

[[Syl]]

There's definitely more to meditation than just staring at a wall.

Depends on what you buy into. Don't knock staring at a wall until you've tried it.

Guided mediation? Meh. Felt silly myself when trying to sit with those groups. I think that and the even more mystical stuff loses people much the way Christianity does when they don't feel it (but for those who do, that's cool). If mind and body are one, what use is the weird sitting if it doesn't do something by itself? I mean, you can visualize yourself becoming in tune with Nature as you lift weights, but in the end, what matters is repetitively moving your arms up and down with heavy stuff attached to them somewhere.

I also disagree with those who say that it doesn't matter how you sit, so long as you're 'meditating.' This is the biggest difference between philosophies like yoga and Zen. If you're not sitting correctly, you're not doing zazen (meditation). If you're only sitting kind of correctly, you're only kind of doing zazen. Just like weights, form matters. In fact, if you find your mind wandering (spinning its gears, really. its supposed to wander), it probably means your posture is off.

Forget the koans, the emphasis on enlightenment, even the Precepts. The core of Buddhism is the sitting laid out by the man. Everything else just follows. It took me thirteen years after my 'enlightenment' to realize that.

[aliantha]

I'd never knock staring at a wall, Sheriff. I've done it as well, and it's cool.

[[Syl]]

I should've put a after that. I know it sounds funny, but...

For those who haven't tried it, give it a whirl. Brad Warner put up some good, simple directions with pictures.

The thing I worried about was whether I was doing it right. My advice for that is in two parts:

Just keep in mind that you don't have to think about or experience anything in particular. The goal is to eventually stop all those thoughts from spinning around, but you're not going to do it right away. The idea is just to stop spinning them yourself and let them coast to a standstill.

Finding the right posture gets easier the more you practice, and your body will tell you with little aches if your posture's not right for too long, (your thoughts will too once you're used to it). If moving doesn't fix it (which is fine. you don't have to be a statue), it's probably time to get up.

If anyone does this twenty minutes a day for three days and thinks it's not worth it, let me know.

[Cambo]

Fascinating topic on a wonderful practice. I've been trying to meditate for one hour a day for the past six months, haven't missed many.

I agree with Syl that the more mystical schools can put off people not into mysticism/deep spirituality. Sad but true, because meditation will be of at least some benefit to anyone who does it regularly. It will be of most benefit, though, to people like me whose interest stems form a desire to develop themselves spiritually. In fact, this is the intended benefit of most forms of meditation. "If mind and body are one, what use is all the wierd sitting if it doesn't do something by itself?" The direct realisation that mind and body are one, and furthermore, that all minds and all bodies are one. Usually blocked by the ego.

On posture: Syl is correct that posture is extremely important to zazen and some other forms of meditation. Not so for others. I am of the opinion that all the prescriptions for posture are just a way to ultimately forget about posture, so the traditions adopted the postrues they found it easiest to do that in.

[rusmeister]

I'll just say that in eastern Christianity, prayer can be something like meditation. Some things, like "the Jesus prayer" - the full form is "Lord Jesus Christ, Thou Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner!", which can be shortened all the way down to: "Lord, have mercy!" - and other prayers are used heavily in monasticism - and in a few cases, essentially miraculous forms of rapture/transportation, and even what you'd call levitation have been reported - but no one, as far as I know, has been taken to heaven in a chariot of fire.

In my world view (which I do NOT make up on my own), meditation that is NOT directed toward God is extremely dangerous, and can open one up to other, more hostile kinds of spirits.

The trick with repetitious prayer is that it must not be vain - you have to really make the words your own and mean them, imprint them on your soul. The repetition of the Jesus prayer is the most well-known - and believed to be the most important and most effective - when you mean what you are saying, and in normal prayer rules it is repeated 3x (usually), 12x (sometimes) and 40x (infrequently). Usually the short form is used, but some pray-ers are more gung-ho - and probably better pray-ers. The tradition is, when praying, to cross oneself in the Orthodox fashion - forefinger, middle finger and thumb together, other fingers closed to the palm, and to unhastily touch one's forehead, belly, right shoulder and then left shoulder and then bow at the waist (sometimes even to prostrate - on your knees, forehead touching the floor. When I do the 12 "Lord have mercy"s, for example, I cross myself twice for every twelve recitations.

St Seraphim of Sarov is probably an all-time champion pray-er in Orthodox history. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Seraphim_of_Sarov
It's an interesting story.

[balon!]

I have an incredible imagination. This gives rise to some bad anxieties and points in my life where I want to stop thinking. Meditation has worked wonders for me. I've found my best meditation is walking through a labyrinth. Not one to get lost in, but a single path that winds back on itself many times. ex: one I use frequently

Walking without purpose, for a long period of time, and then standing still in the middle all slows my mind down. By the time I reach the center, I am usually still enough to truly meditate for a few minutes, and then work my back out. I always feel great afterward.

[Cambo]

I'll just say that in eastern Christianity, prayer can be something like meditation. Some things, like "the Jesus prayer" - the full form is "Lord Jesus Christ, Thou Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner!", which can be shortened all the way down to: "Lord, have mercy!" - and other prayers are used heavily in monasticism - and in a few cases, essentially miraculous forms of rapture/transportation, and even what you'd call levitation have been reported - but no one, as far as I know, has been taken to heaven in a chariot of fire.

In my world view (which I do NOT make up on my own), meditation that is NOT directed toward God is extremely dangerous, and can open one up to other, more hostile kinds of spirits.

The trick with repetitious prayer is that it must not be vain - you have to really make the words your own and mean them, imprint them on your soul. The repetition of the Jesus prayer is the most well-known - and believed to be the most important and most effective - when you mean what you are saying, and in normal prayer rules it is repeated 3x (usually), 12x (sometimes) and 40x (infrequently). Usually the short form is used, but some pray-ers are more gung-ho - and probably better pray-ers. The tradition is, when praying, to cross oneself in the Orthodox fashion - forefinger, middle finger and thumb together, other fingers closed to the palm, and to unhastily touch one's forehead, belly, right shoulder and then left shoulder and then bow at the waist (sometimes even to prostrate - on your knees, forehead touching the floor. When I do the 12 "Lord have mercy"s, for example, I cross myself twice for every twelve recitations.

St Seraphim of Sarov is probably an all-time champion pray-er in Orthodox history. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Seraphim_of_Sarov
It's an interesting story.

Some forms of prayer have exactly the same effect as meditation, ie they create an altered state of consciousness, sometimes a full blown mystical experience in the practitioner.

Meditation not directed at God- to be more specific, meditation directed at nothing in particular- can certainly be dangerous. Most traditions agree on this, having various explanations, some involving malevolent spirits similar to yours. In my worldview, which I am CONSTANTLY making up ( with the help of various eclectic taditions, I see the danger as a mix of psychological and spiritual. If your meditation is not directed, your mind/soul is deprived of stimuli, and begins dredging up all sorts of shit. If you've got any skeletons in the closet, that's the time they'll come out. A very similar thing can happen when taking psychedelic drugs.