White Gold in the Land

[DrPaul]

I can think of two possible sources of information about white gold, one of which entails a Last Chronicles spoiler. The other is that the Elohim would know about it and that at some time in the Land's past this knowledge would have been conveyed to the Lords either directly (e.g. to Berek during his journey to the One Tree) or indirectly (most likely through the Giants).

[Palm Lake Mustachio]

The question is asking 'How could this Knowledge come to a place where the concept of it cannot even exist' and from this point of view it is a fair question.

Far better phrased than I could have ever hoped for!

Excellent answers everyone and certainly food for thought. I tend to get bogged down looking for hard facts - probably not the best trait for reading a fantasy book, think I just need to chill a bit more and go with the flow of things!

Anyway, I really like some of the ideas suggested here by others, don't know how I managed to miss/dismiss them myself!

Cheers guys!

[DrPaul]

I thought of a third possibility on the way to work this morning.

Lord Foul, when he was either a member or trying to become a member of Lord Kevin's Council, told Kevin and the other Lords about white gold and wild magic as a way of winning their trust, and also because attempts to bring white gold and the bearers thereof into the Land would create the kind of opportunities for Lord Foul to exploit with which we are all familiar.

[Krazy Kat]

I thought of a third possibility on the way to work this morning.

Lord Foul, when he was either a member or trying to become a member of Lord Kevin's Council, told Kevin and the other Lords about white gold and wild magic as a way of winning their trust, and also because attempts to bring white gold and the bearers thereof into the Land would create the kind of opportunities for Lord Foul to exploit with which we are all familiar.

That's very possible as LF has always known about the white gold.

While I was reading your post I had another idea, that it was the Giants who made Kevin's Watch, and as it is described as a finger pointing to the heavens then maybe thats an indication of the white gold ring. Like the game...hide the thimble!
That could also be why Lord Foul dropped Covenant on Kevin's Watch, because ah um eh oh i dunno, its a bit late for me, i'll have to think about this some more tomorrow...

[Barnetto]

There are a number of issues this question raises.

As Wayfriend points out, the big one is whether the Land is real or a construct of Covenant's mind. If the latter, the question of how white gold is known about in the Land disappears. Applying Occam's Razor might steer you in this direction, therefore.

But I also think it is true that SRD was very keen to maintain the ambiguity regarding the reality (or otherwise) of the Land. And if there was no white gold in the Land and no way of knowing of its existence, then the fact that the people knew of it and recognised it would be a clincher for the Land and its peoples being Covenant's imaginings.

So, assuming for a moment that the Land isn't simply inside Covenant's mind, the question breaks down into two parts: how is anyone aware of the existence of white gold; and, even if they are, how do they recognise it so readily.

I think the first part is relatively easily explained. White gold exists outside the world of the Land, indeed it is used as the keystone of time (whatever that is). And there is, according to the Land's creation myths, one being in the Land who actually comes from outside the world of the Land originally. Lord Foul. He was imprisoned in the world of the Land from the outside where he originally dwelt. Knowledge of white gold's existence would have been available to Lord Foul, therefore. Furthermore, knowing that white gold allows the wielding of sufficient wild magic to break the arch of time and free him from his imprisonment, he has every possible motivation for spreading knowledge of it far and wide, such that if it were ever found, the knowledge of it might come his way. This seems pretty clear-cut to me (at least).

(After all, every race in the Land (and beyond the Land) instinctively seem to know about white gold and its powers - people, Lords, Giants, Kasreyn, Elohim etc.)

(As a side note, since gold itself exists in the Land (Kasryn of the Gyre uses it), it is presumably platinum that is absent from the Land - either that or something prevents the use of metallurgy!)

The second part is more difficult. Even given a widespread knowledge of white gold (through myths/predictions), how would people have recognised it so readily? My only suggestion is that, since white gold allows the wielding of "wild magic" which is, in some ways, antithetical to earthpower, perhaps, at least in the First Chronicles when health sense etc is still strong, the ring gives off some kind of power potential emanation that is alien to earthpower and gives the viewer an impression of something from the outside?

[Barnetto]

Addendum: when Atiaran first sees the ring, she says "There is no white gold in the Land. Gold has never been found in the Earth, though it is said that Berek knew of it and made the songs".

However, Kasreyn of the Gyre does use gold rings and so gold must exist (perhaps not in the Land, but in the Earth). (It seems to me that platinum is missing.) Of course, a Raver had corrupted the King eventually defeated by Berek, and that Raver, informed by Lord Foul, could certainly have passed on knowledge of white gold to the court. (Even ignoring any Last Chronicle spoilers.)

Also, when Covenant reveals the ring in Revelstone before the Lords for the first time, Mhoram's reaction is described as "intuitive comprehension". Which would possibly lead one in the direction of there being something in the aura of the ring and maybe that being some conflict between it and Earthpower?

[Black Asgard]

I never understood why white gold couldn't exist 'naturally,' i.e., native to the land's own resources. It's just an alloy.

Spoiler

I mean, there is one character who uses Gold for magic, right? What's to stop him from adding the other metal to make the alloy? I never understood that.

[Blackhawk]

The first chronicles are filled with inconsistancies, flaws, major and minor mistakes, that i believe are mainly deliberate.

for example, why was there only Covenant and Atairan at the Celebration of Spring. i mean, that's like Pink Floyd doing a free concert in the park and only a leper and a world-weary midwife showing up!

Wow.. all these years an i never wondered about that.. you are right.. it was the Pink Floyd show of shows only done once a year.. or was it less frequent?? I would think the Entire population of Soaring woodhelvin would have told TC and Atiaran, "you might as well journey with us.. were going to the Celebration of Spring."

about the white gold... if you go by just the first chronicles considering SRD had not thought of writing the second chronicles.. it was only spoken of in song.. there was no one still alive to say where the knowledge came from. but if you go into the final Chronicles there is a bit there that would explain possibly why there are only bits and pieces of knowledge concerning white gold.. the way they describe it being graven in every rock leaves you to believe there was another telling which has not yet come about..or that we will never hear concerning the creators use of white gold to create the AOT. I have to agree with Wayfriend that it may be information that Berek was given during the staffs Creation. though I dont recall reading about it.. I would read the second chronicles..then start on the final chronicles.. the Final Chrons for me gave me ideas of why so little was known of the white gold that destroys peace... this isnt really a spoiler but just in case ---->

Spoiler

mostly due to limited encounters of certain characters. but we still have to wait and see.

[Vraith]

I'm probably repeating myself, but: why does there have to be ANY logical/rational reason for knowledge of White Gold? This world doesn't depend on that way of thinking or discovering or acting. Lore, power, knowledge are all based on intuition, personality, insight, will power, desire, personal revelation, communion with stones and trees...even the first known human with Lore [Berek...and in the Land anyway] was gifted it, not educated with it...Hell, even in the real world, there's a multitude of things you don't have to learn, you just have to learn to sort, name and communicate them.

[Thorhammerhand]

I concur, but remember the Berek is referred to as both a seer and a prophet. He may have glimpsed the power that the WGW whould have in the future.