Against All Things Linden

Post by **bushidoken** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:34 pm

I am in total agreement with the original poster on all aspects of the review. Well said.

Post by **StarRider** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:10 pm

I also agree with much that has been said here.

There are two major things that brought this book down. First and foremost there was entirely too much inner dialogue, too much self introspection. It was so overdone i had to force myself through these parts time and time again.

Secondly, the use of all the $10 words. Yes i know it's a SRD trademark, but c'mon, there must have been twenty of these on each page. I'm an educated man and can usually infer obscure word's meanings, but these babies were so far out there they caused me to not understand sentence after sentence and ultimately, too much of the book.

There were parts of this book that were amazing but overall it just dragged on to no end.

If TC was not in this book i would NOT have finished it. Linden Avery is just not an interesting character. At all. Ever.

Post by **lurch** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:43 am

I am in total disagreement with what the OP said. EVERY ONE of his issues is based in stereotypical expectation..a continuation of the Donaldson we know.

Yet there is Donaldson repeating how many times..Do Something They Don't Expect..!!!...uhh what part of that is the OP missing?
Its unfair to expect the author of literature,,not pulp fiction mind you..but Literature,,after 30 some years ,,to not have changed..and as a matter of fact..he HAD BETTER CHANGED over 30 plus years or I Would Be Greatly Disappointed.

YES !!! The Author Is Messing With The TC Formula and Even Making Fun of IT..YES!! The Author IS Messing With The Readers Expectations and Having Fun Doing IT!!.. YAAAAAAYYYYY!!!

Every second that goes by something changes. Deal With It.

Post by **hue of fuzzpaws** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:27 am

Don't people read books nowadays for enjoyment?

Post by **Revan** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:50 am

hue of bone wrote:Don't people read books nowadays for enjoyment?

Yes, but just because one reads a book with the intent of enjoying it, does that make it necessitous that the book must be enjoyed?

Post by **aliantha** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:17 pm

Uh, Darth? I think the word you were reaching for is "necessary".

Post by **Revan** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:23 pm

aliantha wrote:Uh, Darth? I think the word you were reaching for is "necessary".

dictionary.reference.com/browse/necessitous

Post by **Hiro** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:13 pm

lurch wrote:I am in total disagreement with what the OP said. EVERY ONE of his issues is based in stereotypical expectation..a continuation of the Donaldson we know.

Yet there is Donaldson repeating how many times..Do Something They Don't Expect..!!!...uhh what part of that is the OP missing?
Its unfair to expect the author of literature,,not pulp fiction mind you..but Literature,,after 30 some years ,,to not have changed..and as a matter of fact..he HAD BETTER CHANGED over 30 plus years or I Would Be Greatly Disappointed.

YES !!! The Author Is Messing With The TC Formula and Even Making Fun of IT..YES!! The Author IS Messing With The Readers Expectations and Having Fun Doing IT!!.. YAAAAAAYYYYY!!!

Every second that goes by something changes. Deal With It.

Some things change for the better, some not. Whether it is up to expectations or not is not the point. I prefer to have my expectations exceeded, don't we all?

The Gap series was unexpected. And an unexpected pleasure. Even in that airtight plot there are some mistakes, but they remain trivial in comparison to what SRD had achieved.

To me, the same cannot be said of the Last Chron's. So the point is not if our expectations are met or not, but whether the author is successful in his aims or not. When people bring up issues that bothered them while reading, in this manner, apparently they were not carried away to such an extent by the story and characters.

Post by **hue of fuzzpaws** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:37 pm

However some people were absorbed and carried away by this book.

Post by **Hiro** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:48 pm

hue of bone wrote:However some people were absorbed and carried away by this book.

Sure, just as everything changes, people come from different places and will react differently.

Post by **Revan** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:16 pm

Hiro wrote:
hue of bone wrote:However some people were absorbed and carried away by this book.
Sure, just as everything changes, people come from different places and will react differently.

Good post

Another thing; people here have been praising the book; and just because I have an opposite opinion i'm somehow getting carried away. I've not given the book a second thought, except when I've been responding to posts on here... which is what loads of people are doing - so by logic they getting carried away and absorbed by this book too.

I'm not getting too absorbed; tbh this book isn't good enough for a second read or to get absorbed in; I'm reading Brent Weeks atm - To which i highly recommend to anyone who's a fan of fantasy.

Post by **SoulBiter** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:03 pm

Revan wrote: Another thing; people here have been praising the book; and just because I have an opposite opinion i'm somehow getting carried away. I've not given the book a second thought, except when I've been responding to posts on here... which is what loads of people are doing - so by logic they getting carried away and absorbed by this book too.

I'm not getting too absorbed; tbh this book isn't good enough for a second read or to get absorbed in; I'm reading Brent Weeks atm - To which i highly recommend to anyone who's a fan of fantasy.

I think (and I could be wrong) that Hue of Bone was saying in his statement that some people loved this book. I dont think he was being critical of your review but just showing that you were disappointed but some people had the exact opposite reaction. They were absorbed and carried away.

Post by **SoulBiter** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:22 pm

I enjoyed AATE immensely. The only thing Im really disappointed with in this book is TC. The interactions with him dont feel like TC anymore. The way he speaks seems so radically different than it used to be. He seems too detached from whats going on. Even when he comes back to himself he doesnt seem to get worked up enough. His passion is missing.
Remember in TOT when TC is ticked off a the Haruchai for wanting to kill Linden for trying to Ceer. Thats the kind of passion that TC brought to the story. Im not seeing that.

"No!" Covenant's passion carried so many implications of power that it shocked the deck under Linden's feet. "You've gone too far already!" His chest heaved with the effort he made to control himself. "In Andelain-with the Dead- Elena talked about her. She said, 'Care for her, beloved, so that in the end she may heal us all.' Elena" he insisted. "The High Lord. She loved me, and it killed her. But never mind that. I won't have her treated this way." His voice shredded under the strain of self-containment. "Maybe you don't trust her." His half-fist jabbed possibilities of fire around him. "Maybe you don't trust me." He could not keep himself from yelling, "But you are by God going to leave her alone!"
Brinn did not reply. His flat eyes blinked as if he were questioning Covenant's sanity.
Instantly, light on the verge of flame licked from every line of the Unbeliever's frame. The marks on his forearm gleamed like fangs. His shout was a concussion of force which staggered the atmosphere.
"Do you hear me?" Brinn and Cail retreated a step as if Covenant's might awed them. Then, together, they bowed to him as scores of the Haruchai had bowed when he had returned from Glimmer-mere with Loric's Krill and their freedom in his hands. "Ur-Lord," Brinn said in recognition. "We hear you."

Im hopeful that we will see a return of his passion in the next book.

Post by **Hiro** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:22 pm

SoulBiter wrote:
Revan wrote: Another thing; people here have been praising the book; and just because I have an opposite opinion i'm somehow getting carried away. I've not given the book a second thought, except when I've been responding to posts on here... which is what loads of people are doing - so by logic they getting carried away and absorbed by this book too.

I'm not getting too absorbed; tbh this book isn't good enough for a second read or to get absorbed in; I'm reading Brent Weeks atm - To which i highly recommend to anyone who's a fan of fantasy.
I think (and I could be wrong) that Hue of Bone was saying in his statement that some people loved this book. I dont think he was being critical of your review but just showing that you were disappointed but some people had the exact opposite reaction. They were absorbed and carried away.

Ehm, it seems that Hue of Bone did not react to the review, but to my comment on 'being carried away'. So how could the reviewer be disappointed? Since Hue of Bone's remark was so short, that's a lot of speculation to read in there.

Just to clarify, I do and did not contest that any reader got carried away by AATE. I was merely stating that for some, the geas of the story was not strong enough to overcome (perceived) flaws in the story, it's characters and events and the way it was told.

Post by **Revan** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:47 pm

You know the "OP" and the "Reviewer" has a name... I forget what it is; nevertheless can we call He Who Cannot Seem To Be Named by something other than a title please?

Unless it's "My Lord".... I'm good with that.

Post by **SoulBiter** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:52 pm

Picky picky

Post by **Revan** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:58 pm

SoulBiter wrote:Picky picky

Of course, couldn't you tell that the Reviewer was picky by his namesake?!

Post by **Hiro** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:59 pm

Post by **aliantha** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:46 pm

Revan wrote:You know the "OP" and the "Reviewer" has a name... I forget what it is; nevertheless can we call He Who Cannot Seem To Be Named by something other than a title please?

Unless it's "My Lord".... I'm good with that.

Probably doesn't help the noobs that I keep calling you Darth. I could do a Skyweir and call you Darthy, I guess...

And thanks for the link. I learned a new word today, and I didn't even have to read SRD!

Post by **Kaos Arcanna** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:16 pm

Finished AATE last night, and I have to agree with the review.

SRD is in love in with Linden Avery. This entire series is his love note to his own creation. Thomas Covenant is an afterthought in the series.

Now this wouldn't be so bad if I actually LIKED Linden or Jeremiah ... Jeremiah has been a siphon for as long as he's existed as a character: "Blank faced drooling teenaged victim" does not stir me to empathize with Linden and the lengths she has gone through to save him.

I don't like Linden and have no reason to be emotionally invested in Jeremiah.

(Sudden thought: if ROGER had been in the role of Jeremiah I might have cared more for his fate due to the emotional resonance of Covenant.)

As others have said, the Giants are lacking in individuality. Because of who his parents were, I had a certain regard for Anele and wanted to see him healed. Liand ... he grew on me.

But Liand and Anele are dead. The Ramen are too tied up with the Ranyhyn-- I can't recall the correct spelling of Liand's girlfriend's name and I am not interested enough to pick up the book and find out ... not a good sign for someone who's read the first two Trilogies over and over again.

And I agree that Covenant should have had a stronger reaction to Roger than he displayed. "Oh, wish he could have turned out better, but he was always his mother's son. Too bad I'm probably going to have to kill him. Oh, well. Time to go back to my never-ending monologue about how great Linden is."

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

Against All Things Linden